This is the continuation of the story posted earlier. Once again, thanks
again to all who posted helpfull tips and suggestions.

To summarise, I decided to change all disks and pads on a 2006 4.2
normally aspirated S. To those of you who own a 06-08 S, you need
to know that Jag changed brake suppliers starting with SN 52048; the
new supplier is Teves. Changes starting with this serial number included
326 mm front and rear disks and steel-braided brake hoses. I've included
a photo of one of the rear braided brake hoses. Keep this in mind if you
are ordering brake parts; most of the suppliers out there don't have a
clue and will try to sell you earlier model parts that won't fit.

In essence, I probably wasted my money, unless I'm going to keep the
car another 100 thousand miles. (I just might) I ordered the pads and
disks thru Dan at Nalley. A company named Eurospare now makes the
326 mm front and rear disks at a price about 40% less than Jags. I did
have the rear brake pads and disks changed at 49,000 by and independent who used factory pads and Eurospare disks. The front
pads were changed at 16,000 under warranty to comply with TSB JTB00008; thus, the front pads you see have just about 80,000 miles
(NOT a typo) on them and the rears just about 46,000. New pads have
12 mm on the front and 10 mm on the rear. My used pads measured
at 6mm front and 5 mm rear...lots of pad left. Keep in mind that 90%
of my driving is highway. The disks probably could have been used as is
since they had about 1/2 mm of wear and 2mm is maximum allowable.

I despise that damnable electric rear parking brake. So, years ago I
got into the habit of depressing the chrome parking brake switch on
the center console at the same time as I remove the key. When this
is done, the electric brake will not set. Once every month or two, I
use the electric brake to ensure that it still works. Obviously, by
the looks of the old brake pads, I could probably get 70,000 on them.
I'm sure I could have put at least 100,000 on the front pads.

Changing the pads was a breeze; you'll need a tube of sil-glyde or
other lube for the pads and pins, a can or two of brake cleaner and
a clear plastic hose to go over the the brake bleed nipples. As I
was pushing in the the pistons, I opened the bleeders a bit and
forced the old fluid out the plastic tube. No chance of getting air
in the system if you use this method, and, you get rid of the old
fluid rather than forcing it back into the system. FINALLY, don't
even try doing the rear brakes without the piston pushback tool kit.
I tried using the little cube that fits on the end of a ratchet and just
couldn't get enough leverage to push and turn the piston at the same
time. I called O'Rielleys (other parts stores probably have the same
kit) and was able to use their kit. You put down a deposit of $82
dollars and if you return it within 48 hours, there is no charge. Hell
of a deal. One of the pictures will show how the tool is installed.
With the tool, it took about a minute to turn the piston in.

Now, all that is left is to 'bed' the pads. Find a road near your house
with no traffic. Accelerate to about 40mph and apply the brakes as
is you were making a rapid stop...not enough to activate the ABS.
Pull over, put the car in park, foot off brake, and let the pads cool
for a minute or two. Repeat X4. Now you're done. This should
prevent the pads from glazing.

Here's the best part; the dealer wanted $1,600 plus tax for the job,
for a grand total of around $1,742. My cost, including all supplies,
a little Jack Daniels, and the disks and pads from Nalley was $671.
I think I'll go to Disneyland.

Almost forgot. A can of DOT4 brake fluid will be required to replace
the fluid; it's also probably as good a time as any to bleed the whole
system.

 

Pat yourself on the back, "job well done"! Now go drink more Jack!!!!

Thanks for adding the tid bit about the 06/08 upgrades.

 

Good write up, I don't think I've heard Teves mentioned before.

A job well done.

 

Nice Job. Tools = Goodness

 

Job well done, well done

 

Cliff,

Thanks for posting those photos of the piston tool in place on the caliper. When playing with the kit in my hands at Autozone a couple of weeks ago, I was wondering how best to leverage the piston tool in place in order to ensure that the piston both spins and retracts properly. Your photos confirm what I thought I would have to do....

Thanks again for taking the time to post your experience. Having never done a brake pad change where anything other than a big ol' C-clamp is required, my confidence level continues to increase for the day when I replace our S-Type's rear brake pads. I want to minimize any chance that I wind up disabling the car in our driveway by putzing around with the rear pistons. That's why I'll borrow the tool kit from Autozone instead of risking the use of one of those cubes....

 

I'm still confused. The goal was to retract the piston to allow installation of new, thicker pads. The piston cannot be pushed straight in using linear force (using a simple c-clamp) as is done typically with the front calipers. It must instead be rotated into the retracted position to accommodate the EPB mechanism. The difficulty in performing this act is to do with a tool that will remain in proper contact with the piston while it is being rotated. Any linear force applied would therefore be superfluous beyond keeping the tool in contact.

When changing the pads on my 2003 non-R, I used the FLAPS cube with no difficulty other than figuring out which way to turn the piston.

In the case of the OP, it seems he was able to turn the piston, but it did not retract. Aside from accidentally turning it the wrong way until it came off the end of the threads, how could it NOT retract? The concept of hydraulic pressure preventing retraction and being circumvented by opening the bleeder makes no sense.

 

He did rotate them in if he used the tool pictured. The end of it doesnt spin freely. There are two tabs that would lock different adaptors like the sides of the cube. So when you turn it its in the slots and will turn in the piston as it gives you more leverage.

 

-- once off the thread, or backed out far enough, the piston can become cocked and wedge while trying to go in, even with a few threads engaged

-- hydrolock can be caused by a perfect ABS system where there is not enough residual seepage to allow the brake fluid to push up to the reservoir

-- hydrolock can be caused by a defective flex hose that only allows one way flow because of a deteriorated inner lining

All of the above possibilities have been observed in the field , and are not unique to Jaguars.

 

Not in the case of the saga of the OP, but sometimes it is possible to turn back the piston using a big fat flathead screwdriver. The trick is to use the screwdriver to apply rotational force against the indents but not using it to push in. Cracking the bleeder is necessary because you need all the help you can get.

It's slow going, but it works.

 

I can understand that possibly the piston inadvertantly came off the end of the threads and the OP was not able to push it back in without use of the second tool as per your first point. I guees that's a lesson to all of us to be careful next time.

Your second and third point don't quite work. If there was hydrolock, the OP would not been able to turn the piston at all once the threads were engaged or be able to force the piston until it was engaged. Cracking a bleeder might make it easier but as stated before is not mandatory.

 

#1, #2, and #3 have been observed in real life and do not necessarily include the exact scenario of first cranking the piston out. In any case, conventional brake hydraulic systems often have a little give in them due to the flexible lines. The information was put out for the benefit of others who may not have seen it.

If you choose to disagree, so be it.

 

If there was hydrolock, the OP would not (have) been able to turn the piston at all once the threads were engaged; or be able to force the piston until it was engaged, except by cracking a bleeder ...

fixed that for ya...

 

Thanks for the help, I didn't proof read before posting as I normally do. I committed the basic mistake unique to the male species of attempting to multi task. It seems Mr. HP and Mr. Windows were having fun with me tonight by conspiring not to deliver software in 64 bit that offers the same features of the outmoded 32 bit (supposed ) equivalent. The latter allows me to scan and print remotely via wireless network, the former (64 bit), nope. Took me two hour to find that out. Ha-ha I'm really amused.

 

LOL....I already lost one good, serviceable HP "allinone" (with decent-sized ink cartridges) to Vista/Wonders 7....

I think we're all glad the OP is not still stuck in his drive sans rear brakes, whether it was the borrowed tool, enhanced determination...or just holding his tongue right.

Pic's of how the tool hooks up are nice and I appreciate his posting them. Meant to take some last time I did it but forgot.

I know I had totally different experiences about a year apart between the 03 (easy, smooth) and the 05 (rear was a real bitter ex-wife so-to-speak) even though newer and less miles. In my case, even though I had the tool hooked up as he pictured...it was just incredibly hard to turn. Not sure if due to piston's resistance to rotation or fluid's resistance to depart the cyl. Plum's observations of all the crap seen out there in the field is one reason I always go the bleeder-screw route...even if you have such problems upstream you at least get the pads changed out!

 

Great point, Zane. You can bet that when it's time for me to change out our S-Type's rear pads, I'll be cracking those bleeder screws just a bit to ensure that the job goes as smoothly as possible with no component damage....

 

I learned this online when I had to do the rear brakes on a Lincoln LS (almost like the Jag S type) a couple years ago. To get more pressure and free up a hand, take off the rotor and bolt the caliper back on with the piston facing out. That way you can use two hands on the ratchet wrench and little cubr tool along with oprning the bleeder it saves bloody knuckles.

I'm just getting ready to do a full front and rear on my 2006 s type 4.2 VDP and am going with power slot (they are doing the first set of rotors for my car) and EBC red stuff pads. Anyone know of something I should watch out for?

Bill

 

Bill,

I was at the SEMA convention in Vegas this week and stopped by
the EBC booth. The individual manning the booth gave me the following
part numbers for the late serial numbers (2006..see my first post) and
on thru 2008. The "Red Stuff" pads should be Front DP31911C and
Rear DP31749C. (actually, the rear might be DP37749C) his handwriting
was a bit difficult to read. They also make the 326mm rotors with
part numbers 1597 and 1598.

I wish I had used their pads when I did my brake job back in March.
The OEM pads are the most damnable, miserable, dusty pads I've
ever had on a car. Within a hundred miles, the wheels are coated
with black dust. The rep indicated that Jaguar specified a high carbon
pad that was not prone to squeaks; thus, all the dust. I do believe
next spring I'll change the new OEM pads to EBCs.

I'd suggest that you flush/bleed the brakes at the same time. Once
the pads were installed, I used a 50cc syringe to suction all the old
fluid out of the master cylinder, filled it with new DOT 4, than bled
each brake..starting with the right rear, right left, right front,left
front..sequence. You'll need a full can to complete the bleed.

Cliff

 

I'm happy with my Wagner ThermoQuiet semi-metallic pads on all four corners. Great stopping power, silent as a tomb, lifetime warranty, and very little brake dust compared to the horrible factory pads that we all complain about. And with Wagner's current rebate offer, you can order the pads through rockauto.com, mail in the rebate, and end up spending no more than $30 per axle. A great deal any way you look at it....

 

Good information about the updated brake parts.

One note; The STR has always had steel braided brake hoses from the factory. I have not been able to find out if the normal S types do or not. I know now at least the 2006-2008 models do.

I added stainless braided hoses to my wife's 2003 LS and it made a nice difference.
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