Researching S-type brakes/Suspension differences.
#21
Forgive me for poaching on this thread, hopefully someone's still reading it...
I'm in the process of adapting the Jag STR parking brake caliper to fit over a 330x28mm rotor.
I've laid out and milled some 1/2in spacers to fit between the caliper halves, can provide a DXF if anyone wants it.
The problem is that the pad-retention pins and the anti-rattle spring will now be too narrow.
As noted earlier, the Audi R8 uses the same basic caliper design ($$$$$) but with a wider outer half, I'm trying to find out how thick the R8 rotor is.
I'm not aware of any other vehicle that uses this exact caliper design, and the ebrake pads don't seem to cross-reference to any other vehicle.
I'm in the process of adapting the Jag STR parking brake caliper to fit over a 330x28mm rotor.
I've laid out and milled some 1/2in spacers to fit between the caliper halves, can provide a DXF if anyone wants it.
The problem is that the pad-retention pins and the anti-rattle spring will now be too narrow.
As noted earlier, the Audi R8 uses the same basic caliper design ($$$$$) but with a wider outer half, I'm trying to find out how thick the R8 rotor is.
I'm not aware of any other vehicle that uses this exact caliper design, and the ebrake pads don't seem to cross-reference to any other vehicle.
I found that pins from the rear Camaro Brembo Calipers work well. Regarding the clip, you'll probably have to fabricate your own.
#22
However, based on a little more pad cross-referencing it appears there's two other applications: the Ford GT and the '08-09 Jag XKR w/Alcon brakes.
And, while the Ford GT rear rotor shows up as thicker than the R8...will miracles never cease...the rear rotor on the XKR is listed as 350x28.
So...off to find a Jag parts counter this week unless someone's got access to a real, detailed parts listing.
#25
BTW, the XKR pin/clip kit is Jag PN C2P15990.
$100 each, plus or minus, which is almost twice what I paid for my calipers...and almost twice what Audi gets for a set of R8 pins and springs.
#26
#27
#28
My STR E-brake calipers are off a 2004.
Here it what my e-Brake caliper looks like using $12.00 pins from a 2011 Camaro Rear Brembo caliper. (I still need a pad retaining clip solution, extend original or make my own.
I like that 2 of us are modifying the e-brake caliper at the same time...
Here it what my e-Brake caliper looks like using $12.00 pins from a 2011 Camaro Rear Brembo caliper. (I still need a pad retaining clip solution, extend original or make my own.
I like that 2 of us are modifying the e-brake caliper at the same time...
Last edited by Tijoe; 09-26-2012 at 07:07 AM. Reason: removed the word "an"
#29
#30
#31
I figure I should update and document a couple finding regarding difference between the STR rear hub carrier and the standard S-type Rear hub carriers.
As most STR owners with Brembo calipers know, there is a separate Parking brake caliper. (Images shown above.) In my brake upgrade on my 2000 S-type (not a STR) I figured it would be straight forward/easy to upgrade using a rear STR hub carrier and then use a larger rotor. (365 x 28 or 380 x 28.) I put together 3-D CAD Models and quickly found out that trying to move the parking brake caliper to fit a 365 rotor is virtually impossible without extensively modifying the STR hub carrier. A 365 rotor is only .7" (17.5mm) larger radially, and when I move the parking brake out it hits the bosses on the Hub carrier, and a caliper adapter can't be made to fit.
The Parking brake can be made to work with a 380mm rotor, because you can move the parking caliper out an inch / 25mm. Seems like a good way to go, Right?
If I try to go with a 15" rear rotor, (Same diameter as my Front rotors) Then the Brembo calipers I have available, create too much rear brake bias.
If I go back to 330mm x 28, (stock STR rotors diameter), then I get too much front brake bais with the front Brembos I have and am using.
Quite an interesting challenge. It appears that the STR Brembo/ knuckle set-up was mechanically optimized for 330 rotors in the back with 365 front rotors.
To use a 15"/380 rotor in the rear, I would need to purchase a rear set of calipers that have the right piston area, plus the caliper has to have the ability to fit a 380 rotor. To date I've only found two calipers that will to the job and they are in the $400+ each price range.
It is looking like I will be better off using the stock 2000 S-type rear hub carrier and make an adapter that fits both the rear caliper and parking caliper.
As most STR owners with Brembo calipers know, there is a separate Parking brake caliper. (Images shown above.) In my brake upgrade on my 2000 S-type (not a STR) I figured it would be straight forward/easy to upgrade using a rear STR hub carrier and then use a larger rotor. (365 x 28 or 380 x 28.) I put together 3-D CAD Models and quickly found out that trying to move the parking brake caliper to fit a 365 rotor is virtually impossible without extensively modifying the STR hub carrier. A 365 rotor is only .7" (17.5mm) larger radially, and when I move the parking brake out it hits the bosses on the Hub carrier, and a caliper adapter can't be made to fit.
The Parking brake can be made to work with a 380mm rotor, because you can move the parking caliper out an inch / 25mm. Seems like a good way to go, Right?
If I try to go with a 15" rear rotor, (Same diameter as my Front rotors) Then the Brembo calipers I have available, create too much rear brake bias.
If I go back to 330mm x 28, (stock STR rotors diameter), then I get too much front brake bais with the front Brembos I have and am using.
Quite an interesting challenge. It appears that the STR Brembo/ knuckle set-up was mechanically optimized for 330 rotors in the back with 365 front rotors.
To use a 15"/380 rotor in the rear, I would need to purchase a rear set of calipers that have the right piston area, plus the caliper has to have the ability to fit a 380 rotor. To date I've only found two calipers that will to the job and they are in the $400+ each price range.
It is looking like I will be better off using the stock 2000 S-type rear hub carrier and make an adapter that fits both the rear caliper and parking caliper.
#33
#34
Bling!
Wider = Better (This will open a can of worms I am sure!)
The 305s are matched to work with the 345 rears!
Assuming my suspension modifications balance with the tires, I plan to get better overall handling out of this 4000lb/1400kg “heavy” car!
Planning for the day when the car has closer to 600hp versus the 430hp to 450hp it has now.
What’s another 8 pounds per wheel? The LS3/TR6060 Combo is about 50 lbs lighter than the original AJ-V8 combination, so a few extra pound isn’t going to hurt the F/R balance of the car. But I’ll be adding about 10 lbs more unsprung mass per corner. (This is another big topic for discussion, with lots of information on the Internet debating unsprung mass and effects on rotational inertia when modifying a car.)
Wider = Better (This will open a can of worms I am sure!)
The 305s are matched to work with the 345 rears!
Assuming my suspension modifications balance with the tires, I plan to get better overall handling out of this 4000lb/1400kg “heavy” car!
Planning for the day when the car has closer to 600hp versus the 430hp to 450hp it has now.
What’s another 8 pounds per wheel? The LS3/TR6060 Combo is about 50 lbs lighter than the original AJ-V8 combination, so a few extra pound isn’t going to hurt the F/R balance of the car. But I’ll be adding about 10 lbs more unsprung mass per corner. (This is another big topic for discussion, with lots of information on the Internet debating unsprung mass and effects on rotational inertia when modifying a car.)
#35
Great information. Keep it coming.
One thing that I have noticed is that there are a lot of 1999 to 2002.5 S-type suspension parts listed on E-bay and other online shops. It is a lot harder to find information on 2002.5 and newer suspension parts, (other than the common parts across all years.
Why aren't the 2002.5 and newer part more readily available?
I seldom if ever see any 2003 to 2008 STR suspension parts listed in catalogs or online. (Not enough cars built?)
What is the best way to get/find a list of the heavy duty "Supercharged" parts?
One thing that I have noticed is that there are a lot of 1999 to 2002.5 S-type suspension parts listed on E-bay and other online shops. It is a lot harder to find information on 2002.5 and newer suspension parts, (other than the common parts across all years.
Why aren't the 2002.5 and newer part more readily available?
I seldom if ever see any 2003 to 2008 STR suspension parts listed in catalogs or online. (Not enough cars built?)
What is the best way to get/find a list of the heavy duty "Supercharged" parts?
Hi, we have the some problem over here in the U.K with parts for 2002.5 onwards. I also find people don't know there are changes to front suspension, gearbox, cylinder heads and inlet manifold and just list them as 1999-2008.
#36
#37
#38
Here is the link to the thread regarding S-type Production numbers.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-number-29594/
It is hard for me to believe that less than 1300 STR's were built for all model years. I am glad I purchased one. Now I understand why some STR parts are hard to come by.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-number-29594/
It is hard for me to believe that less than 1300 STR's were built for all model years. I am glad I purchased one. Now I understand why some STR parts are hard to come by.
#39
I figured I'd continue adding to this thread, rather than start a fresh one.
There have been recent threads on adding LSD to the S-types/STRs, threads on wheels, threads on upper and lower control arms, coilovers, and threads on brakes. But not much on the rear suspension.
I am attaching some images of my rear sub-frame and suspension project to show gradual progress on adapting the rear suspension to fit 345/30-19 tires. I am finding that I will end up designing new upper and lower control arms in order to get the suspension geometry I am looking for. Lots of slow methodical work.
Note the Mark VIII 8.8 Differential case. I have my rebuilt 8.8 with 3:55 gears and a Torsen T2-R ready to install once the rear suspension changes are made
Enjoy
There have been recent threads on adding LSD to the S-types/STRs, threads on wheels, threads on upper and lower control arms, coilovers, and threads on brakes. But not much on the rear suspension.
I am attaching some images of my rear sub-frame and suspension project to show gradual progress on adapting the rear suspension to fit 345/30-19 tires. I am finding that I will end up designing new upper and lower control arms in order to get the suspension geometry I am looking for. Lots of slow methodical work.
Note the Mark VIII 8.8 Differential case. I have my rebuilt 8.8 with 3:55 gears and a Torsen T2-R ready to install once the rear suspension changes are made
Enjoy
Last edited by Tijoe; 05-11-2013 at 11:11 AM. Reason: correct spelling
#40
Tijoe: Be humble and take the praise.... Your threads and work are epic....
"fabricating my own control arms" If any other users said that I'd call "BS"..
This is also a lesson in "doing it right".....
So many people in so many car communities think you can just "slap it on" and be done with it.. Not you, you seem to have quite the handle on what it really takes to modify a car..
That fact that you are doing it to a relatively rare unsupported make and model makes it epic....
Anyone can buy $20,000.00 worth of "kits" and build a Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger... not you...
"fabricating my own control arms" If any other users said that I'd call "BS"..
This is also a lesson in "doing it right".....
So many people in so many car communities think you can just "slap it on" and be done with it.. Not you, you seem to have quite the handle on what it really takes to modify a car..
That fact that you are doing it to a relatively rare unsupported make and model makes it epic....
Anyone can buy $20,000.00 worth of "kits" and build a Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger... not you...