I've literally been to the dealer 4 times in the last 3 weeks trying to fix my V8 2003. I brought it to them with RP and the engine light on, plus I read the codes which had 171 and 174 (lean).

So the first thing they do is replace the intake manifold gaskets for $1300. This gets rid of 171 but RP and engine light and 174 still there. I bring it back and they replace the fuel filter for free and a day later no change. They tried to charge me $180 for that but gave in.

Next they focused on injectors and said they "flushed" them. No help. So now I'm waiting for a call to hear what's next on their list.

Has anyone had this similar issue? What was the solution? Thanks.

 

Please realise these are not 171 and 174, even if that's what they told you. They are P0171 and P0174 (those are zeroes), which will let you look them up here and on the net.

Is it a 4.2?

There's a code PDF in the FAQs which has those codes in.

If it were my car I'd use an OBD tool and look not just at the codes but more at the fuel trims both at idle and 2500rpm to figure out whether there's an air leak (not so common with the V8). You can get cheap ones on ebay such as the elm327.

Lean codes can be tough to diagnose & fix because they can occur for many reasons, not just air leaks, and if it IS a leak then those can be at many locations. You may well have to keep taking it back especially as you've spent so much - I see no reason why at that price it wasn't fixed. But if you can't get them to do a full fix for no more money at some point you've got to DIY, take it elsewhere or I suppose sell it

You can do DIY code reading cheaply and in parallel with arguing with them, if argument is needed.

 

You're right Jag, the fuel trims is the way to go and I hope they are doing that now. My reader is the cheapy one and doesnt do that. I know I should get the 327. I meant to say P0171 and P0174, just being lazy.

It is the 4.2 and I have that PDF, thanks.

It's like you say, they have to keep stabing at it but hopefully no more charge. I asked them if they see this often and they said no. I would think it must be more often than not but who knows.

 

The best way to check for vacuum leak is short term fuel trims. Then by spraying differant locations that can leak. If the short term fuel trim drops you found a leak source, i can also tell you i have replaced many a mass air flow sensors for this too after leaks are ruled out and fixed the problem. This is why i keep different mafs to substitute and see if the issue changes

 

S03 - If it's a jag dealer they should have IDS. It can command the actuators individually as well as reading all the sensors, so they can check EGR operation and much more. They should be able to find & fix it.

 

One more thing: I have no idea what a fair price would be but I guess that's a thing to worry more about when it's properly fixed. Our labour rates etc are very different to yours.

 

jag, this is what bothers me the most that I've taken it to a real JAG dealer and they appear to be clueless. I'm dealing with the customer service guy and recommending these things we're talking about but obviously the mechanics should already know this.

What I'm fearing is they are going to give up and say there is nothing else they can do just because they know they are losing money in labor now. I have not elevated this to a supervisor level yet since I want to keep things calm.

They may just be very shady. At the same time I paid $480 to get rid of front brake squeak. They replaced just the front rotors, since I put new pads myself,and it still squeaks bad. I havent even forced that issue yet since the RP is priority. I do keep mentioning it though.

 

Update: Dealer says they've found the problem and I need a new throttle body and MAF sensor. Now they want $1100 more for that.

I have no choice but to pay so hopefully that will end the drama.

 

I still don't understand the $1300 for intake gaskets. I don't have any USA prices (of course) but can't someone figure out if that's fair as it sure doesn't sound it.

This looks likely to be a case of a dealer throwing someone else's money (parts) at a problem without properly diagnosing it.

 

Please let us know if this is a fix. I am a little skeptical with the findings.

 

You were robbed. The intake gaskets were fine. I have never heard a AJ-V8 lose the intake gaskets. They were just shooting in the dark. You really need to find a local mechanic that knows Jaguar's. Sorry you lost $1300.

Listen to Brutal the 4.2 is known to have MAF and TB issues. Usually but not always related to water in the electronics. Be aware that it's much cheaper to get them rebuilt instead of replaced. We had a great thread that you can find by searching to tell you where to call and check on price and timing.
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When I hear of the P0171 & P0174 codes I pass on this trouble shooting procedure and in most cases it helps http://www.gusglikas.com/images/Auto...otos/P0171.pdf . I am not sure that the people at the shop are in the right direction; again I say that I am not sure. I hope this helps!

 

I agree the original intake gasket replacement was a shot in the dark by the dealer but.......it did get rid of the first code P0171.

Then the P0174 hung around and was causing all the problems. If the 171 had still stayed or showed back up I would have raised hell because it would have been obvious that the gasket replacement was a waist of time. The fuel filter was another shot that didnt work but I wasnt charged.

I had mentioned the MAF sensor was my concern from day one. It does anger me they waited until last to finally change it. Looking back I should have changed that myself first. They did use IDS and Fuel Trims all along so I think honestly they were giving it a good attempt. Service guy kept saying "many things can cause the RP". And he could be right,who knows.

So today I picked it up and it seems OK but we'll wait and see. Removing RP has cost me $2500. If it shows back up again I will be requesting a full refund and taking them to small claims along with reporting to our local ARB board. Cross fingers.

 

ive NEVER seen a throttle body set a lean or rich engine code. It is NOT part of the electronic to control are to fuel ratios. Thats a waste on money there, there is NO justification for a TB

 

Their excuse for the TB was they tried the new MAF sensor by itself and RP still came back. They tried the old MAF sensor with a new TB and it came back. But when they tried the new TB with the new MAF sensor it was gone. So they think the sensor in the TB (I forgot what it's called) was also at fault and you cant replace it without replacing the whole TB. Of course:^(

I pretty much gave up on any explanation they gave me at this point.

 

Be afraid (I know, you are already) - Brutal knows his stuff.

There again, the shop could've been charging for unneeded stuff but fixing the actual fault on the quiet. Proving it could be tough, though. I wouldn't go back (unless it's not fixed).

 

then you dont have just the issue with a p0171, youde also have to have a TPS(throttle position sensor) fault as well. are they not pulling codes or what. I meen hell a brake switch ALSO throws you into restricted performance among many other things. but they leave codes(in most cases)
Its not uncommon to have multiple issues for a single code, but not a TB, unless there are other codes other than your original lean codes. If so they need to communicate it and have them give you a printout (screen shot) of IDS or SDD. WE have to for warranty and I will if someone asks, but before I go in and check then clear. And quit frankly we havent been told for years we needed to until we got hit with a mini audit from Jaguar. I do most of the time, but I still forget out of years of habit. There is still no reason to throw a TB into the mix for a lean engine, But they should also reset the ECU adaptations(learned operating perameters) I posted this before that sometimes you fix a problem, only to be thrown a curve and not think it is, or have another problem. When what youre fighting is actually a "learned response" Look at it this way, on a vacuum leak the engines 02 sensors see this, add fuel to correct the AFR's and after a period of time, these "short term" fuel corrections become "long term" and are now a learned ecu response. This is part of what OBDII is all about for all care makers to see carsd in the US. The car HAS TO adapt to changes in operation to maintain EPA's guidlings for economy/performance and most importantly emmissions. When you fix a vacuum leak you can fight long term fuel trim corrections that are in nonvolatile mempry and have to be cleared. Short term is volatile and constant, it changes constantly as the engine is running. trans and other modules do the same thing like central junctions boxes and rear control module etc...Theyre all now "smart Boxes" or fuse boxes that have a brain and control many differant functions depending on yr, model and features

 

Are you sure it was P0171 and not P0121? I also agree that a P0121 would not qualify for a TB change.

 

I have the basic but good OBD2 reader that I use to check things. It was clearly just P0171 and P0174 when I gave them the car. So everytime they did something I would use my reader to check. Now one thing I forgot to mention is after they replaced the fuel filter I checked and got 2 codes both 174.

One was regular P0174 and another was P0174 pd which I've never seen before. Not sure what the pd was.

There has not been a 121.

Well after one whole day all is good so far....

Another thing the service guy said. I asked if other S-Types have problems with the TB at 70K miles. He said he's seen problems at 30K miles.

Another thing to add, I Googled this place and looked for reviews. The few that I found there was not one good word said. Most said run away quickly. Too bad I didnt check before.