hey Guys,

so after struggling and Doings lots of components replacing , took my 05' s type 3.0 to the Jag Mac INDY shop here in Dallas area , only thing he worked on is in replacing one stripped bolt for the Intake ..found small vacuum leak
He now has determined from the way the car drives and codes " system running to rich on both banks " and restricted performance - CAR IS RUNNING IN RETARDED TIMING --,
I kept asking - how do you know that is retarded he keeps saying the way it DRIVES .. obviously he didn't take apart ! he suggested getting an engine he stated - I can't fix it Its too complicated to DO IT , he says : just drive it like that !!!

A bit of history again : car had blown head gasket previously so I had the " cylinders heads job done" new gasket and heads were serviced at professional shop - I did the install job my self ! making sure timing on chains was done right to the JTTS instructions ..

ANY SUGGESTIONS PLEASE -- should just drive it like that or what else to look at ?

 

I would strongly suggest you check your cam timing!
I have a suspicion it is wrong.

 

so I m assuming that would involve removing heads and timing chains - will that be correct ? its a possibility the timing is off ..

what else should be looking at ? removing valve covers how to get a look at valves conditions or IDEA how they are ??

 

I have never timed a Jaguar V8, but I have done other engines. Normally you would have a timing mark on the pulley in front. When that is on mark, there are usually a mark for each cam, on top, which both should be on mark as well. On the Jaguar engine it might be a bit more complicated with adjustable valve timing, if you have that. But yes, normally the valve covers come off and you look at the front near the sprocket both sides. The heads do not need to come off, unless you have mechanical damage.

 

Here's some reading for you, the V8 set up seems a walk in the park compared to this.

These are all X Type threads, I assume the S Type is the same.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...q-11225/page4/

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...q-11448/page2/

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...correct-32221/

 

A copy of my Engine Repair Course Code 168.pdf shows IN DEPTH assembly diagrams!!

I had it converted to .pdf from the paper document issued when attending the training course.

I see it all over the internet so I know it is widely available. (find it and download!)

bob

 

You can find that here

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Trai...des/168_sg.pdf

 

Yeah, please post the fault codes. No matter how experienced this guy may be, I'm not sure I'd blindly trust his diagnosis if he can't back it up with something more concrete than just his opinion.

Is any major disassembly needed to check the cam timing? If difficult to do the official Jaguar method, are there any workarounds that don't require a major teardown?

 

yea ! I couldn't quite get any thing else out the "professional mechanic " when asked how do you know timing is off he kept repeating - JUST THE WAY THE CAR DRIVES and kept on saying "somebody has been in this car allover" which I didn't say ME.. regardless car drives - I feel even thought. I did not have any previus experience with Jaguars .
I was still able to get it together and running .. I drove it to work today when I get home later I will post the codes ...that I pulled.

thanks again guys..

 

Your mechanic may very well be right. I’d just want to verify his diagnosis first, since it might be spendy to pay to fix it. I’d feel a lot more confident if one (or more) of the codes was related to cam timing. Am hoping somebody chimes in a fairly easy method to check cam timing.

And you may have shot yourself in the foot because you didn’t mention all the recent work you did. He is likely to decline doing any more work for you. Sneak in after hours and you may find a voodoo doll in your likeness.

What are the present symptoms that made you take the car to the shop? Low power? Rough idle? Codes that won’t clear?

 

So far, could just be in one of the limp modes due to codes - need those codes!!

 

kr98664 - I m not sure if me letting him know all the work that I've done would have a better outcome or more informative.!! probably he wouldn't have want to mess with it " He seemed kind of erogant " looked like somebody had hit him over the head with a pipe .. Lol..

as far as the codes goes guys just pulled them this morning :

current system too rich bank 1 P0172 ALSO pending
current system too rich bank 2 PO175 ALSO pending
NEW ONE NOW cylinder 1 misfire detected P0301 PENDING
misfire rate above limit P1316 PENDING

thank you guys ..

 

Forget the "retarded timing" claim, just chase the faults! The jag doc shows all the causes and there are threads to read as well.

 

after reading other threads with the same 2 codes, most were resolved with a new maf sensor.....the others were an exhaust leak....something to check before a timing tear down

 

Maf sensor was replaced few months ago along .........….....with spark plugs , coils, throttle position sensor , fuel pressure sensor, rebuilt injectors , intake gaskets upper and lower , new battery , coolant temperature sensor , PVDC valve, vacuum hoses , BANK 1 ONLY o2 sensors , emissions purge valve WHAT ELSE.??????.. man.... I just don't know anymore ...

 

Phew, that's quite a list of parts you've tried. You must have been exhausted from typing, let alone changing the parts. Do you hopefully still have them? As previously mentioned, the MAF sensor is one likely culprit, and could affect both banks. I'd suggest plugging in the old sensor and see if anything changes.

The next step is to think like the guy who will buy a very nice car at a fire sale price from you, once you get frustrated enough to wash your hands and walk away. He'll realize something is amiss and hopefully find this forum, lured by rumors of a good-looking nice-smelling guy, an amazing man who is adept at unraveling complex problems. This mythical troubleshooter (I'm getting all teary-eyed just thinking how wonderful he is...) will ask about any recent history and then suggest starting with some very basic tests. Make no assumptions. It's possible one or more of those new parts are bad from stock, a troubleshooter's nightmare. This wonderful man will gently have this new forum member work through some basics such as checking fuel trims with a scanner, running a compression test, checking fuel pressure with a mechanical gauge, smoke testing the intake manifold and vacuum lines, etc. If we're lucky, this hunk of a man (Sorry, my eyes keep watering up...) may even throw in a few cheap jokes for levity.

Unfortunately for you, once the new buyer figures out the problem and fixes it, he will taunt you by repeatedly doing donuts in front of your house, just to remind you what a bitchin' car you once had and sold for pennies on the dollar. Voluptuous women of loose moral character will be hanging all over him because of his car. I'd suggest skipping the intermediate steps of unloading the car and work through some basics, as detailed above. Frustrating? Sure, the new head gaskets weren't the slam-dunk fix you were hoping for. Oh well, keep going... Your car can and will run wonderfully again. It's just a matter of figuring out why.

 

dam DUDE ! ,

Not sure what you DO for a living however i think you should be a writer on SNL. chapelle show if ever comesback !! or my all time favorite HOWARD STERN the man..

I m inspired NOW ! full of motivation .. driven .. specially the part of VOLUPTUOUS women hanging out ! excatly what i need dude....no joke .

I m tented to start by putting back the old 02 sensors on bank 1 .. which is the only side its got new ones .

YOU TELL ME WHERE TO START -- I WILL FOLLOW MY LEADER TO THE PROMISE LAND !! HAHA.......

thank you needed this humor..

 

Where did you source your injectors from and do you have the old maf to swap back....the more i read about having both rich codes, the more i think you have a sensor or injector problem.. need to read your live data for coolant temp, maf actual airflow and trims at idle and at operating temp....then post those figures so they can be compared to known acceptable values by members who can interpret them

 

here we go Scottjh9,

injectors I got the injectors rebuild kit from ebay ,, filter baskets , o rings and retainers , so I replaced all the pieces my self .. I had to leave the car at work over the weekend ,(needed other vehicle from there ) before I left I connected the Icarsoft I930 still getting

p0172 sytem running to rich bank 1 current NOT BANK 2
cylinder 1 misfire detected P0301 PENDING
misfire rate above limit P1316 PENDING also I DO HAVE THE "RESTRICTED PERFORMANCE " ENGINE SIGN ON TOO.

ALSO took the following data :
engine coolant temperature 74 c
STFT BANK 1 -18.8% FUEL RAIL PRESSURE 381 KPA
LTFT BANK 1 -20.3% INTAKE MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE 45.0 KPA
STFT BANK 2 -7.0% AIR FLOW RATE MASSAIR FLOW SENSOR 8.17 G/S ABSOLUTE THROTLE POSITION 3.5 %
STFT BANK2 -14.8%

OXYGEN SENSOR OUTPUT VOLTAGE (0.380V B1-S2)
STFT B1-S2 0.8%
OXYGEN SENSOR OUTPUT VOLTAGE (0,725V B2-S2)
STFT B2-S2 0.0%

monday when i get the car back i would like to replace back old MAF , and driver side 02 sensors too ???

 

Measure with hot engine.

Worry the injectors may be leaky.