Fingers crossed, you seem to be hot on the trail!

Is that a typo with LTFT? Normally you'd want to see the two values fairly close together, but you've got one positive and the other negative, for a total split of almost twenty points.

The MAF value has definitely dropped. What was it before, 8 something?

If you get any more codes, don't panic! It's almost to be expected. There's a good chance there may still be additional faults, hopefully minor stuff. I like the suggestion to work the engine hard, getting those O2 sensors good and hot.

 

morning Guys,
the LTFT ? is correct just checked my photos from yesterday .

late last night I drove the car a bit more - you are right Kr98664 . more codes came on ! multiple ones mostly on misfires on all cylinders and other ones .up to 9 of them . I DID not took a photo ,, I did erased them thought - i will write the down if they pop up Again today

also I did notice the AIR FLOW RATE late last night was around 5.9 % a lot lower than the NEW Crappy one at 8.0% I Had before from online vendor (stockwise for 33.00 ) Its really true you get what you pay for !!

ANOTHER OBSERVATION : this morning car was idling a bit rough .. then it seems as a warm up got better .- I m debating if I should just bite the bullet purchase a very good MAF sensor online a quality one ? a cardone one from Rockauto around 70..

 

Clearing the DTC(s) will NOT clear the adaptation in the ECM.

The LTFT will not change until power is disconnected from the ECM.

I suggest disconnecting power to the ECM to set the LTFT and STFT to ZERO and begin from there.
That will give an actual starting point with each new component introduced.

 

Do what motorcarman has suggested for sure...disconnect battery or pull ecm fuse for 30 minutes, then reconnect and start driving...i still think your maf is a bit off....also you posted 99C coolant temp....if you have access to a gun infrared temp device, take temp as near to the engine temp sensor and compare gun temp to scanner temp when you get a chance....rockauto is good and i would not be afraid of napa or other major supply houses for engine management parts....the only part i have found to be finicky are the o2 sensors....replace oem bosch with like and denso as well....of course oem is always the worry free way for any part if you like to be sure...i believe an ecm reset and varied driving will get this car weeded out very soon

 

much appreciated guys,

I will DO that when i get home today .. I do have a temp gun too , so i will check the engine temp with that .. I m thinking about getting the new MAF sensor from rockauto save some money -- autozone has acdelco for around 90 Napa delphi for 120... rockauto cardone for 70 or delphi around 90 I m thinking about getting from rockauto delphi for 90 ?? well see how it goes tonight after I reset the ECM

 

Just try to do minimal driving if the misfires keep up after the ecm reset and first drive cycle...this may have been stated before, but if the cel is lit up and flashing, try not to drive at all....cat damage is probably taking place...did you check autozone for cataclean....it is about 20 bucks, but worth it

 

+1 on that!!! Even moreso, I'd establish a specific driving pattern to follow after each repair attempt. Remember, you're no longer in your quarterback stage. Think lab coat and clipboard, still gathering data. Maybe drive 10 miles on the freeway, a few minutes of stop/go, hard acceleration, etc. In the middle of your test drive, shut off the engine (while stopped, in case I have to be specific) so you will log more than one drive cycle. The key is to drive a consistent, repeatable pattern.

It does no good to change part A but only test it by driving to your local strip club. You may not see any change because you didn't meet the prerequisites for a particular fault code. The engine still isn't running right, but it won't tell you why just yet due to incomplete testing. Out of frustration, you load the parts catapult and change perfectly good part B. Only now for testing, you drive clear across town to a different strip club because your favorite dancer is there and she does this great routine to your favorite BeeGee's tune. Lo and behold, you get a new fault code but what caused it?

Does your scanner have a freeze frame or snapshot mode? Most do, and it makes it easy to gather data on the road. Just push one button and then review the results later.


What's the normal range for a late model V6? 99C doesn't seem high to me.

 

i will looking at Cataclean from autozone - I have also used BG 44K CLEANER that may DO the same thing i used it about a month and so ago..!.

so i have disconnected the battery left it there for over an hour , whole bunch of DTC's are still there
P0300, ..01,..02...03 P0305 , P1313 MISFIRE CATALYST DAMAGE BANK 1 . P01316 , P0174 , P2098 POST CATALYST FUEL TRIM SYSTEM TOO LEAN BANK 2
erased them NOW

also took temperature by engine coolant sensor with a thermometer 182.6 f
got theses numbers :
STFT BANK1 -0.8%
LTFT BANK1 -7.0%
STFT BANK2 -0.8%
LTFT BANK2 13.3%
FUEL PRESSURE 387 kpa
engine RPM 727 /MIN
AIR FLOW RATE FROM MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR 6.52 G/S

last minute update:

I bought the CATALCLEAN FROM autozone poured it into gasoline tank I have driving the car back and forth HARD TOO NO DTC's ! I feel im getting close to sorting out the issues
also I bought a remanufactures MAF sensor BLUE STREAK from Autozone 70 bucks in case I need it ??

I can see the promise land !! now.

06-25-20 800 am , update :

came out before 6 am this morning , started the car 10 min.. later check engine light came back .. pulled codes at work misfire codes cylinder 1.,3,5 rate above code.. multiple misfire code..
guess I should be looking at replacing the MAF to a new one from autozone .. later today.

oh YEA ! the freeze frame mode on Icarsoft I930 DOES not seem to be working ..

 

Let's see, where's my 11 foot pole?

I'm still confused by the split in the LTFT. Disconnecting the battery should have reset them to zero. When did you take those readings? Before disconnecting the battery? If after, how long had you been driving? I'm not sure how much time would need to elapse before seeing the LTFT diverge like that. I'm kinda scratching my head, thinking not enough time had elapsed if starting from zero, but maybe I've overlooked something.

Have you tested the MAF with zero airflow yet? See post #34. Key on, but don't start the engine. With no airflow, you should see zero indicated, or nearly so. This will provide a rough estimation if the MAF is reasonably accurate, at least at the low end of the range. I would hold off buying another MAF until you at least run that test.

Remember, work the present codes staring you in the face. Don't work what you had last week. Don't steer your troubleshooting where you want it to go. Follow the manual. It's not pointing towards an MAF right now. The primary codes now (P0301, P0303, and P0305) are low relative power (misfire) on cylinders 1, 3, and 5. This is the US passenger side bank. Read about them here:

http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto..._OBD_II_R2.pdf


That is your bible.

Note how multiple possible faults are listed for those codes. From forum experience, one of the primary causes for misfire codes is bad ignition coils. Basically, it's so common we typically recommend trying new NAME BRAND coils before digging too deeply elsewhere. So I put on my Sherlock Holmes hat, lit my pipe, and looked back through this thread. Lo and behold, post #15:


Now I'll type real quietly so as not to draw any attention, but by chance were these no-name eBay specials? I've notice a theme with other parts, so I gotta ask. And if these were indeed no names, didn't a set of 6 for $20 total seem odd? Especially considering name brands are about $30 each? And on the same vein, did you have any misfire codes before installing these Fling Dung coils from China? I haven't read all of your threads (I'm 57, so I just don't have enough time given my life expectancy from here...), but I don't remember any misfire codes until you replaced the coils. Do you still have the old ones?

I realize our advice has been all over the map, but if you've got no-name coils installed, that is probably a YUGE part of the equation. That is something I hadn't considered previously.

 

I took the fuel trim readings ..... after driving it for sometime yesterday.

today after I got the latest DTCs this mroning i erased them , I just TESTED the OLD MAF sensor it is 0.0 g/s I don' t get it why is the LTFT BANK1 always NEGATIVE never seen it positive ????

also just wondering could it be the 02 SENSORS on the passenger side NOT reading right ! as I said before I did replaced the ones on the DRIVERS SIDE ONLY THEY ARE NEW .. PASSENGER SIDE has old ones

all of the COILS are fairly new I got from rockauto decent quality around 160 for all 6 of of them .. the old ebay ones I already removed those, I got a new MAF sensor from auto autozone unopened i can take that back ..

 

That's another good possibility. I think somebody had previously suggested to swap them side to side and see if the fault follows.

I've been trying to avoid spending too much of your money. That's why I'm all in favor of swapping between sides whenever possible. IIRC, late model O2 sensors are pretty spendy. Must be made from unicorn tears.

Glad to hear you've got decent quality coils in there. I had feared you were still running the bargain basement no-namers.

Your call if you want to return the unopened MAF sensor just yet. So far the current codes are pointing elsewhere. It is possible the present misfire problems are masking other minor issues, and those won't be obvious until you clear up the big ones, i.e. the misfires. But if you had a defective MAF sensor, it should affect both banks, not just one. So based on the current wind direction (Squirrel!), I like your latest plan to swap O2 sensors side to side and see what happens.

 

I like Karls assesment on the 02 sensors and maf....keep the maf, just in case....i still think you have a sensor problem and not mechanical....i will quietly observe for now so as not to over info your situation....i am better at doing than explaining....and you have the best in Karl for explaining numbers relating to cause and effect

 

LATEST NEWS !

I got home this afternoon so I got the car on ramps - got underneath guess what !! BANK 1 which has most of the issues , I realize that's where I had replaced the 02 sensors with some questionable after market ones from ebay …. so I decided to replaced them with old OEM ones also what the heck ! went ahead and replaced the old OEM MAF sensor with BRAND NEW one from autozone

car feels much better NOT saying Great ! but it idles better and drives better too HOWEVER it ran and drove good till I got these numbers and DTCs

went from too rich to too lean ?????????

P0171 SYSTEM TOO LEAN BANK 1
P0174 SYSTEM TOO LEAN BANK2 ….ONLY THOSE 2

PULLED THE FOLLOWING DATA :

STFT BANK 1 - 0.8 %
LTFT BANK 1 10.2 %
STFT BANK 2 15.6 %
LTFT BANK 2 19.5 % AIR FLOW RATE FROM MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR 5.38 g/s better...…

your thoughts guys …...

 

Steve, is that you? Very funny, you got me. You really had me going there for quite a while. Payback's a bitch, though. Can't wait to return the favor. Just when you least expect it...

To explain: At work, a good friend and I have been locked in mock battle for years. Forget to lock your computer and you can expect a new screensaver, typically not safe for work. His latest ploy was to search for highly inappropriate items on my computer, which led to very interesting ads being displayed. Of course, let's not forget the exquisitely embarrassing emails "I" have sent to other coworkers.

But Steve, I'm going to get you back. Brilliant ploy you pulled, quite the long game. Still shaking my head. Can't believe I took the bait. Posing as a new forum member, knowing I'd want to help, and then consistently doing the opposite of anything I suggested. Hall of Fame stuff. Enjoy the moment, it may not last. See you at work tomorrow. Got any plans for lunch?

 

NOW I understand why you are NOT a fan of chapelle, SNL or howard stern..!! weird sense of humor..

yea ! I replaced the MAF sensor and 02 sensors all at once.. if you thought that was the wrong thing to DO

JUST STATE IT ..

 

Something changed, seems better. But which part was responsible? What if part X was THE root cause, but part Z was not 100%, and muddied the waters? New codes, too. From which part?

 

Our vehicles do not play well with aftermarket MAF sensors, is the AutoZone MAF Denso? That's where I would start.

Just incase somebody asks, cleaning the OEM MAF sensor is about 75% the time not going to work.

 

I think it was the 02 sensors that made a bigger impact ! for sure those numbers i got were taken BEFORE THE NEW BLUE STREAK MAF SENSOR WAS PUT IN. now I have old OEM 02 sensors on both banks ..

I just thought as an extra bonus get the new MAF back on too .. mistake that was ..also the MAF sensor I had before was an OLD DENSO .. which was reading around 6.0... the new one I got from autozone is a BLUE STREAK reading around 5.39 g/s - another mistake on my part to get that - I will remove it and take it back to autozone ..

Im gonna start shopping around for a DENSO I suppose ???

I did notice this morning on my way to work " restricted performance " warning came on and of course both BANKS too lean codes.

when I get home I will put back the old Denso back on - and reset the computer ..

 

I have purchased on eBay for a couple of S Type, 3.0 's.

 

actually autozone has one for $109.00 Denso Mass Air Flow Sensor 197-6020 ...

I have the oem old 02 sensors on both banks also old Denso MAF sensor back on -- have YET to reset computer by disconnecting battery terminal or pull the ECM's fuse which have to find the location !!

however have been driving it back forth to gym to autozone till few miles ago / I did NOT have any DTC's at all as of now I have only ONE PENDING CODE , P0174 system running too lean BANK 2 .

I had the code scanner on the car computer all this time ; these are the data I have been seem ..

STFL BANK 1 - 3.1 %
LTFT BANK 1 - 2.3 %
STFT BANK - 3 .1 %

AND THIS IS THE TROUBLE MAKER " LTFT BANK 2 15.6 % " this number DOES NOT SEEM TO fluctuate AT ALL...could it be a bad 02
MASS AIR FLOW 6.39 g/s

I will be disconnecting the battery soon and resetting the ECM .. hopefully It will help..