I'm new here so first I'd like to say hello. It seems to be a fantastic forum.

Today I brought in my 2008 S-Type with 35,000 miles to the dealership and they're telling me I need new rotors. The rear pads were replaced once and weren't turned. The fronts were never replaced until today. The dealership says this is normal.

How could one or even two sets of brake pads wear out a rotor? Every car I've ever had, Allante, Vette, Viper, TransAm, XKR, has lasted as long as I owned the car. And I was driving them very hard.

I was going to contact Jaguar and claim they're defective or of poor quality. Do you think I have a leg to stand on?

BTW, we live in Florida where the terrain is very flat and suburban. This is my wife's car which she, unlike me drives very conservatively.

Thank you,

Stephen

 

Stephan:
Rotors do wear out sooner with modern brake pads- I doubt there is any problem with the rotors that would cause premature wear, since that would be a metalurgical problem.

Jaguar dealers are pretty well inclined to replace anything that could be marginal - I beleive they asume most Jag owners are more concerned to fix a problem completely rather than worrying about cost.

No chance your wife is using her left foot for the brake, is there?

 

It's hard to comment without seeing the evidence.

The front rotors are very simple to change, and do not require any specialised dealer equipment, you could probably save some money by going to an independant and a second opinion may ease your mind.

I'm sure that the dealer has only recommended new rotors rather than mandated so I doubt that there is much mileage to be gained by pursuing Jaguar.

 

I don't think so. But now you've got me paranoid. I'll be watching....

 

When I told the "no way," they said "no problem" and just installed the brake pads.

 

All rotors have a minimum thickness defined, and with some of them, this is built into the rotor by a machined chamfer at the minimum thickness, so once this disappears, its replacement time, no messing ! However, some rotors get very chewed up, (scored), before this occurs, so most mechanics recommend replacing them if this is found, because when they get like this, the new pads take for ever to bed in. You can measure disc thickness using a micrometer but you normally have to take the wheel off.

So.... What do your discs look like ?

 

Not sure about S-types but broadly speaking brake rotors are not as meaty as they were ages ago. Less material to begin with means less available to wear and less available machine down on a lathe.

Many variables enter in, as mentioned. Pad material, driving habits, etc.

Many manufacturers have very limited warranty coverage on "wear items"...often as little as 12/12. I wouldn't get my hopes up too high about help from Jaguar. And the definition of "defective" can open to interpretation ...with "not lasting as long as I think they should" probably not qualifying.

I'm not unsympathetic to your situation but there's probably nothing you can do.

Cheers
DD

 

On most vehicles the rotars today are manufactured very close the the design limit(meaning that they will have to be replaced),have seen it gm.honda ,toyotas and on some ford 350s.If you have to replace shop arround as the prices vary quite a bit,also before installing make sure that they turn true and ther is no warpage in them.

 

They're not smooth if that's what you mean. The rears weren't turned after the first pad change, nor were they after this pad change so it feels like there's grooves when I run my finger over it. Please describe what should I be looking for.

 

I never turn a rotor. I just replace them. My Jag mechanic says that OEM Jag rotors are quick to wear out and recommends aftermarket rotors.

 

It used to be that rotors had the minimum thickness stamped on the hub. Now, it may only be in the service manual. It pays to know what the specification.

The only proper response to a suggestion that a rotor needs replacement due to wear is: "show me the current thickness on a micrometer".

If it is just an "opinion" based on a visual check, it is worth nothing.

 

If they're not thick enough to last more than one set of pads they're sure not going to withstand being turned. Right?

What would happen if you used a rotor till it wore out completely? As a teenager we would drive our cars to the bitter end. Tires down to the cord, brakes down to the metal. You knew my friend was coming by the hideous metal on metal schriek his brakes made! It seemed to be like that for at least a year.

 

The S-types are notorious for slightly binding back brakes. If there's a big difference between front and back wear to pads/discs in favor of the front having less wear, check this out. Most braking force is at the front as there is an effective shift of mass c.g. to the front during braking. If you've thought the fuel consumption isn't good for the type of driving you do, that's another binding brake pointer. If the discs are vented (full of slots) they won't last as long as a solid job.
Leedsman.
p.s. Disc brakes were invented by Dunlop in the 1950s, and Jaguar was the first manufacturer in the world to fit them to a production car.

 

Dealerships are known to replace both pads and rotors, as they've got to warranty their work. They don't necessarily care if the rotors are still within specs, as they're just concerned about "comebacks." I assume some Indy's are the same way.

My XK8 had 59K miles when I purchased it, and the original brakes were very thin. An auto machine shop said I had one turn left in those rotors.

Jag brakes are completely conventional, and most any experienced mechanic can handle a brake job. I'm not an experienced mechanic, and found replacing the pads just taking a few minutes--not including having the rotors turned. It's an easy do it yourself job for the most part.

 

It's gone through 2 rear sets to one. I thought the fronts should wear out first too. My city/suburb mileage is 19. It's a six cylinder 3.0 liter engine.

 

ELC., 19mpgUS urban isn't bad for 3 litres petrol in nearly 2tons of car.
Go for a run in your car of a few miles, trying not to use the brakes at all. When you come back, check with your hand how hot all the discs are, be be careful in case one or two are red-hot! This should reveal a binding brake(s). There might also be a bad wheel bearing, (check for heat), but this would almost certainly be noisy. If your discs and bearing area are cold, you can forget binding brakes as a cause of heavy pad wear. It's likely the rear pads friction material is different from the front in favor of more friction coefficient at rear to help park/handbrake be more effective. Check part# difference. Soft, more friction pads wear more quickly.
The only other causes of heavy pad wear I can think of are improper pad material (el-cheapo pads) or very dusty conditions getting dirt constantly between pad and disc. If you think this might be the dusty case, check airflow around the disc/pads assy. There has to be SOME airflow to cool the disc -- the reason disc brakes don't fade like drums.
Leedsman.

 

It is no longer workshop practice to skim brake discs, at least that is so in the UK, its normally cheaper to put on new ones, and there is no comeback to the workshop if new discs are put on. Most workshops no longer have lathes to skim the discs, so they would have to be sent out to a machine shop. The last time I had discs refaced was for a Mark 2 Jaguar in the 80s, and this was a solid disc so reasonably safe as it remained within the thickness limit. With vented discs, skimming can leave insufficient metal from face to air-passage for strength in extreme braking.

Some light scoring is normal and the new pads will bed into them over about 100 or so miles. It is a matter of judgment when the scoring is too deep for safe braking.

 

I just put on Michelin Pilot A/S Plus tires and now the S-Type car stops just as fast my XKR does!

 

I recently bought a pre-owned XK, it had 35K miles so I asked the dealer to inspect and replace the front pads. He did for $300. But within 300 miles they squealed like a stuck pig. I bought the car from a dealer almost 400 miles from my home so I had no recourse.

But all of a sudden in addition to the squealing pads the car developed a bad vibration when I applied that brakes. So I took it to my local Jag dealer thinking they would/could pull the pads and apply the anti-squeal lube (as I figured they didn't do it). The pads have about 1000 miles on them. Dealer called to say I need new rotors (they won't/don't turn them per Jaguar) and they won't/can't re-use the pads.

So I'm looking at about $600 for new front brakes on an 08 XK.

Interesting I have over 20K miles on my 07 Z06 that has over 1000 track miles on the OEM rotors and third set of brake pads and they are smooth as silk.

Guess that's the cost of owing a high end import.

Tom

 

I would tear up my C5 and my Viper on the track and never had a problem either. Yet my 01 XKR has never had brake issues.