S type alignment specs - after pothole damage FAQ
#82
03-31-2010, 06:59 PM
Yes. Your tires will still get eaten. Not enough toe in.
Look at my original spec for the Jag S-type (which i believe speced a toe of + 20). Which was proven to eat tires. The car as it goes down the road wants to push the tires outward. The point of the toe adjustment, is to compensate for this, and make the tire ride flat as far as the cross section. Not enough toe in (positive toe), the car's weight rides on the inside of the tires - they push past straight, too much toe out, and you have front tires that are way past straight, further eating the inside edge. You are trying to find the combination that leads to the tire going as straight down the road as possible.
The other alignment you are comparing to will lead to a car that feels erratic. The tire is pushed out, then the road pushes it out further, and you add the suspension and try to take a corner, and you're riding on front tires that are trying to take the car in two different directions. Toe in, (not corrected by the load of the road) makes both wheels want to push the car toward the center line, as long as the difference isn't substantial between the two sides, it basically gives the car the tendency to want to go straight.. so it just dampens steering input, Basically under load you are trying to get the wheels to go straight. Physics is trying to push them apart from each other. You want them in when stationary, so they end up straight under load. You don't want them out, which the road further enhances.
I know this isn't the best example but picture a shopping cart here. When the wheels are facing inward, as you push it, they straighten out but there is no resistance to get them straight (erratic driving effects). When the one wheel is at 10 O'clock and the other is at 2 O'Clock, Toed out - the cart jerks until the wheels find the proper orientation. That's why toed out handles so much worse than toed in.
George
George
Look at my original spec for the Jag S-type (which i believe speced a toe of + 20). Which was proven to eat tires. The car as it goes down the road wants to push the tires outward. The point of the toe adjustment, is to compensate for this, and make the tire ride flat as far as the cross section. Not enough toe in (positive toe), the car's weight rides on the inside of the tires - they push past straight, too much toe out, and you have front tires that are way past straight, further eating the inside edge. You are trying to find the combination that leads to the tire going as straight down the road as possible.
The other alignment you are comparing to will lead to a car that feels erratic. The tire is pushed out, then the road pushes it out further, and you add the suspension and try to take a corner, and you're riding on front tires that are trying to take the car in two different directions. Toe in, (not corrected by the load of the road) makes both wheels want to push the car toward the center line, as long as the difference isn't substantial between the two sides, it basically gives the car the tendency to want to go straight.. so it just dampens steering input, Basically under load you are trying to get the wheels to go straight. Physics is trying to push them apart from each other. You want them in when stationary, so they end up straight under load. You don't want them out, which the road further enhances.
I know this isn't the best example but picture a shopping cart here. When the wheels are facing inward, as you push it, they straighten out but there is no resistance to get them straight (erratic driving effects). When the one wheel is at 10 O'clock and the other is at 2 O'Clock, Toed out - the cart jerks until the wheels find the proper orientation. That's why toed out handles so much worse than toed in.
George
George
My question is this. At what # do you cross that threshhold with the STYPE that your TOE goes from great, ok, to overly wearing on the inner part of the tire? Lets use 13 each tire, 26 total as a "in a perfect world" benchmark. Where's the threshold barrier begin from being a good alignment to one that will wear your tires, 10 each side, 5 each side??
Last edited by Bull27; 03-31-2010 at 07:01 PM.
#83
03-31-2010, 07:27 PM
Veteran Member
I hear ya, thanks for the explanation. After all the links and posts about alignment thay have #1 made me paranoid with a touch of OCD and #2 enlightened me to what most of all these things mean. I understand BRUTAL said that you want to get each tire IN as close to +13 as possible, however, by adjusting front camber like he said, that will affect the TOE IN. So given that information I would assume that you cannot have a PERFECT blend of Camber and Toe. On top of that, wouldnt the rear TOE and Camber also limit the amount of Front Camber and Toe you will be able to squeeze out of it?
My question is this. At what # do you cross that threshhold with the STYPE that your TOE goes from great, ok, to overly wearing on the inner part of the tire? Lets use 13 each tire, 26 total as a "in a perfect world" benchmark. Where's the threshold barrier begin from being a good alignment to one that will wear your tires, 10 each side, 5 each side??
My question is this. At what # do you cross that threshhold with the STYPE that your TOE goes from great, ok, to overly wearing on the inner part of the tire? Lets use 13 each tire, 26 total as a "in a perfect world" benchmark. Where's the threshold barrier begin from being a good alignment to one that will wear your tires, 10 each side, 5 each side??
This is what Brutal said:
yes the camber WILL change the toe, that why you set rear toe first, then caster/camber, and front toe last ( with the steering wheel locked or you will have an off center wheel)
If you shorten or lengthen the tie rod - which is how you adjust toe - without the steering wheel being locked, you will move the steering wheel as well as the tires on the alignment rack, hence how you will end up with an off - center steering wheel.
The front and rear suspension are completely independent in their adjustment. Changing the front does not affect the rear and vice versa.
Basically you set them in a specific sequence. What Brutal meant to say I think (without putting words in his mouth) was that you can't adjust camber without affecting toe, hence a camber adjustment needs a subsequent redoing of the toe adjustment. That's also why he provided the sequence in which the settings should be set. There is more range of adjustment there in the tie rod ends. You can get to +30, + 40 toe in if you felt so compelled. 10 each side with total +20 wasted inner tires, that was the original MAX Jag spec.
You have to understand that these "ranges" are what is deemed acceptable for the car to drive straight. - They don't really consider tire wear.
I think 26 total toe is a real world spec, not a moon the stars and the sky line up spec.
Jag also suggested 26-28 psi for the front tires so the ride is nice and cushy...
Camber and Caster are basically adjusted by moving the strut relative to the strut mount on most cars. BMW's have fixed strut mounts and only allow for toe adjustments. They are a PITA to align after a lot of miles.
+26 on an S-Type apparently doesn't hurt tires. With all things, the IDEAL alignment is the right side being a mirror image of the left. There is a L-R spec for deviance between the two of them because things don't always line up perfectly.
Hope that makes sense. Oh and for the guy that called out the typo - Sorry I did that really quickly at work. I really need to put that in a new thread and sticky it - moderators If you're listening....
George
Last edited by androulakis; 03-31-2010 at 07:41 PM.
#84
03-31-2010, 07:48 PM
Gotcha! George, now thats what I'm talking about, great info, absorbing it like a sponge. By the time this is over I will have a perfect 26 front toe, matching rears and front cambers. Maybe Ill stop by their shop tomorrow after the gym after I have some adrenaline going. I am somewhat concerned though, I now DO NOT trust these guys with my car, especially if I bring it in a 3rd time. Who knows what they will do to it. I am hoping I get compensated by corporate and I go to someone I trust or they give me a free alignment at another location in which they speak directly with the alignment tech to tell them whats up and what exactly is to be done. I am sure I will have more on this tomorrow.
Now back to searching for some lug nuts...........
Now back to searching for some lug nuts...........
#85
03-31-2010, 08:02 PM
Veteran Member
Gotcha! George, now thats what I'm talking about, great info, absorbing it like a sponge. By the time this is over I will have a perfect 26 front toe, matching rears and front cambers. Maybe Ill stop by their shop tomorrow after the gym after I have some adrenaline going. I am somewhat concerned though, I now DO NOT trust these guys with my car, especially if I bring it in a 3rd time. Who knows what they will do to it. I am hoping I get compensated by corporate and I go to someone I trust or they give me a free alignment at another location in which they speak directly with the alignment tech to tell them whats up and what exactly is to be done. I am sure I will have more on this tomorrow.
Now back to searching for some lug nuts...........
Now back to searching for some lug nuts...........
Did you sit down with the guys who did this and have them try to explain their contradictory alignment reports? Or did you just go in asking for the manager / corporate etc.
You may have to spoon feed these guys. But I wouldn't let them touch the car once it's known that you have filed a complaint against them.
As far as lug nuts, the best source we have found to date is rockauto.com - I think it's 80 and change shipped to your door for a full set of 20 solid chrome ones. Made by dorman. Search for a Lincoln LS. OR go into my thread about help I snapped a lug nut. There's tons of info in there including I believe a direct link to them. It should be a few pages back.
Jaguar wants $20+ for their piece of crap 2 piece lug nuts. In a pinch - If you're just trying to replace the ones that you broke, head to your local Chrysler dealer. Ask for the lug nut for an 04+ Sebring. It's made by Mitsubishi. (Yes the Sebring and the 3rd Generation ecliipse are the same platform). It's a proper fit for our cars as well, 12x1.5 thread with a tapered washer seat, and it's solid chrome. Retails for about $5 each. Be aware that it uses a 21mm head where our stock lugs use 19mm. So you may have to carry an extra tool in your car. You definitely want to replace all the lugs on the car, so you don't end up in the same boat of not being able to get them off again.
George
#86
03-31-2010, 09:09 PM
Well, here's the thing. The alignment guy seemed frustrated this morning when I brought it back. I really do not care because I am a paying customer, but this place is an "assembly line" style tire shop. In and out, dozens of workers, and 10 customers at a time. They probably have NEVER had a guy come in their with his own specs before let alone 2 days in a row and of course with a Jag STR. When he got finished with the car, I felt rushed and he said "its the best I can do". I said "well it still looks off", he said "its all I can do". Now this is in front of what appears to be a manager type, and he is taking that guys side and kinda rushing me out the door. I did have to get to a meeting so I couldn't spend that much time looking it over and pissing on each others legs. Unfortunately, I didnt have a clear copy of the original.
Now, it rides fine, and to someone who knows nothing about alignments, it would be perfect. However, now that I am armed with this knowledge, I know what the deal is. In all honesty, I wont go back to the store and demand, or even cordially ask them to re-du it. It is a lost cause at that place and with that "technician". I already send a complaint in, and they will hopefully reimburse me or send me to another location and another technician.
In regards to the lugs, did you come accross anything cheaper? There are some on ebay for cheap money, I just dont want them rusting out as soon as I make some marks on them while putting them on. I checked that website you suggested last week but couldnt find anything for Jaguar or Dorman. Ill try searching the Lincoln LS on their site. I was hoping to find some cheaper after this fiasco, but if not, I guess it is what it is.
Now, it rides fine, and to someone who knows nothing about alignments, it would be perfect. However, now that I am armed with this knowledge, I know what the deal is. In all honesty, I wont go back to the store and demand, or even cordially ask them to re-du it. It is a lost cause at that place and with that "technician". I already send a complaint in, and they will hopefully reimburse me or send me to another location and another technician.
In regards to the lugs, did you come accross anything cheaper? There are some on ebay for cheap money, I just dont want them rusting out as soon as I make some marks on them while putting them on. I checked that website you suggested last week but couldnt find anything for Jaguar or Dorman. Ill try searching the Lincoln LS on their site. I was hoping to find some cheaper after this fiasco, but if not, I guess it is what it is.
#87
03-31-2010, 09:19 PM
Veteran Member
Well, here's the thing. The alignment guy seemed frustrated this morning when I brought it back. I really do not care because I am a paying customer, but this place is an "assembly line" style tire shop. In and out, dozens of workers, and 10 customers at a time. They probably have NEVER had a guy come in their with his own specs before let alone 2 days in a row and of course with a Jag STR. When he got finished with the car, I felt rushed and he said "its the best I can do". I said "well it still looks off", he said "its all I can do". Now this is in front of what appears to be a manager type, and he is taking that guys side and kinda rushing me out the door. I did have to get to a meeting so I couldn't spend that much time looking it over and pissing on each others legs. Unfortunately, I didnt have a clear copy of the original.
Now, it rides fine, and to someone who knows nothing about alignments, it would be perfect. However, now that I am armed with this knowledge, I know what the deal is. In all honesty, I wont go back to the store and demand, or even cordially ask them to re-du it. It is a lost cause at that place and with that "technician". I already send a complaint in, and they will hopefully reimburse me or send me to another location and another technician.
In regards to the lugs, did you come accross anything cheaper? There are some on ebay for cheap money, I just dont want them rusting out as soon as I make some marks on them while putting them on. I checked that website you suggested last week but couldnt find anything for Jaguar or Dorman. Ill try searching the Lincoln LS on their site. I was hoping to find some cheaper after this fiasco, but if not, I guess it is what it is.
Now, it rides fine, and to someone who knows nothing about alignments, it would be perfect. However, now that I am armed with this knowledge, I know what the deal is. In all honesty, I wont go back to the store and demand, or even cordially ask them to re-du it. It is a lost cause at that place and with that "technician". I already send a complaint in, and they will hopefully reimburse me or send me to another location and another technician.
In regards to the lugs, did you come accross anything cheaper? There are some on ebay for cheap money, I just dont want them rusting out as soon as I make some marks on them while putting them on. I checked that website you suggested last week but couldnt find anything for Jaguar or Dorman. Ill try searching the Lincoln LS on their site. I was hoping to find some cheaper after this fiasco, but if not, I guess it is what it is.
Look I guess it is what it is as far as a lost cause in terms of the tech. I'm sure they've never had an STR on the rack, much less a customer who wants specific things rather than just everything on the screen turning green. Post your ebay links - be careful in that the Jag needs a washer seat lugnut. Most of the ones I've seen on ebay are conical seat and will NOT seat a Jag wheel properly.
Take a look at this part # I found on Rockauto.com
RAYBESTOS Part # 10114N
Its a OE style lugnut for the LS. However, I'm not sure if it's solid or 2pc. $3.48 each, but sold in a quantity of 5.
If its solid, do it.
George
#88
03-31-2010, 09:25 PM
Veteran Member
Here is the solid chrome Dorman nut:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=16583
Dorman 611117 Lug nut from RockAuto - $67.78 for twenty (20) plus shipping.
Now if one wanted to do this on a budget... And had a u-pull it junk yard around, these dorman lug nuts are the OE supplier for chrysler, mitsubishi, and toyota. That being said here's the ridiculously long list of cars which they came on:
https://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-b...tegory_list=:0
George
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=16583
Dorman 611117 Lug nut from RockAuto - $67.78 for twenty (20) plus shipping.
Now if one wanted to do this on a budget... And had a u-pull it junk yard around, these dorman lug nuts are the OE supplier for chrysler, mitsubishi, and toyota. That being said here's the ridiculously long list of cars which they came on:
https://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-b...tegory_list=:0
George
Last edited by androulakis; 03-31-2010 at 09:33 PM.
#89
03-31-2010, 09:34 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Allen, Texas
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Here is the solid chrome Dorman nut:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=16583
Dorman 611117 Lug nut from RockAuto - $67.78 for twenty (20) plus shipping.
George
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=16583
Dorman 611117 Lug nut from RockAuto - $67.78 for twenty (20) plus shipping.
George
BB
#90
03-31-2010, 09:37 PM
Veteran Member
#91
03-31-2010, 09:54 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-JA...Q5fAccessories
-12x1/2, ridiculously cheap, just throwin em out there
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-Bl...Q5fAccessories
-Black? ehhhh maybe a good look, maybe not. Probably scratch to the underneath silver as soon as they are put on
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-HY...Q5fAccessories
-looks most like the Dorman's
-12x1/2, ridiculously cheap, just throwin em out there
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-Bl...Q5fAccessories
-Black? ehhhh maybe a good look, maybe not. Probably scratch to the underneath silver as soon as they are put on
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-HY...Q5fAccessories
-looks most like the Dorman's
#92
03-31-2010, 10:19 PM
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Damon /Houston, Texas
Posts: 7,254
Received 2,190 Likes
on
1,357 Posts
The front and rear suspension are completely independent in their adjustment. Changing the front does not affect the rear and vice versa.
Basically you set them in a specific sequence. What Brutal meant to say I think (without putting words in his mouth) was that you can't adjust camber without affecting toe, hence a camber adjustment needs a subsequent redoing of the toe adjustment. That's also why he provided the sequence in which the settings should be set. There is more range of adjustment there in the tie rod ends. You can get to +30, + 40 toe in if you felt so compelled. 10 each side with total +20 wasted inner tires, that was the original MAX Jag spec.
You have to understand that these "ranges" are what is deemed acceptable for the car to drive straight. - They don't really consider tire wear.
I think 26 total toe is a real world spec, not a moon the stars and the sky line up spec.
26 on an S-Type apparently doesn't hurt tires. With all things, the IDEAL alignment is the right side being a mirror image of the left. There is a L-R spec for deviance between the two of them because things don't always line up perfectly.
George
Basically you set them in a specific sequence. What Brutal meant to say I think (without putting words in his mouth) was that you can't adjust camber without affecting toe, hence a camber adjustment needs a subsequent redoing of the toe adjustment. That's also why he provided the sequence in which the settings should be set. There is more range of adjustment there in the tie rod ends. You can get to +30, + 40 toe in if you felt so compelled. 10 each side with total +20 wasted inner tires, that was the original MAX Jag spec.
You have to understand that these "ranges" are what is deemed acceptable for the car to drive straight. - They don't really consider tire wear.
I think 26 total toe is a real world spec, not a moon the stars and the sky line up spec.
26 on an S-Type apparently doesn't hurt tires. With all things, the IDEAL alignment is the right side being a mirror image of the left. There is a L-R spec for deviance between the two of them because things don't always line up perfectly.
George
Adjusting front and rear "definitly" affects each other. Many times I see before front specs out, only to start the alignment in the rear as your supposed to and watched the front come in and not need anything further. Also as 1 I had today was so far out of wack. I set the rear toe 14 and 14. then brought the front camber in where I wanted it, set front toe, and then the left rear toe moved up to 27 in the red. I went to the back, reset the rear toe to 14, then had to go back up front, put the front back where I wanted it and then it all stayed were I set it...the short story is, if the alignment is out alot. sometimes you have to treat the specs front and rear like a funnel, distilling it down to the correct finished product. Moving back and forth between the front and rear resetting the suspension ....until all setting stay where you put them as you tighten the last bolt.
And I have on occassion set toe specs with the camber bolts and spec. Ive done this with tie rod ends that are seized( not the ball and socket) so they is no way to adjust the toe setting with the tie rod end. I have moved the camber left and right just enought to put the camber in a good spot and the toe exactly where I want without having to charge a customer money to replace a seized end link and labor. Its not an issue with the operation of the suspension, only the person doing the alignment.
Also positive to IS toe in +.26 total is not bad and is pretty much the norm for a Stype suspension. I have used even more than that when the tolerances in the suspension stack up a static toe setting is not enough to comphensate for what it will do driving down the road.
For the most part ya'll have got it, sometimes I think I should just do a video
And yes Joe, the 2nd alignment he wrote left frt camber maxed (yes if maxed too negative, you dont need more negative you need less! bring the tire staight up more to a -2to-4 or drop the right down to and -8) geez it doesnt seem that hard....and yes you toe I would have again preffered in the range of 20to28 total. I useally end up with most at 26 and when I check defelction, this is the most common number I am at that gives the tire a straight stance when driving.
I love alignments and end up helping other techs when needed with weird issues, they take me a total of 15 minutes to do correctly and If I have to tweek a few here and there for a customer again I will. Alignments are a "Compromise" you have to be able to give the customer a car that wont wear the tires unevenly and drives straight even taking into consideration road crown since roads are NOT flat....
Good night guys
#93
03-31-2010, 10:21 PM
Veteran Member
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-JA...Q5fAccessories
-12x1/2, ridiculously cheap, just throwin em out there
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-Bl...Q5fAccessories
-Black? ehhhh maybe a good look, maybe not. Probably scratch to the underneath silver as soon as they are put on
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-HY...Q5fAccessories
-looks most like the Dorman's
-12x1/2, ridiculously cheap, just throwin em out there
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-Bl...Q5fAccessories
-Black? ehhhh maybe a good look, maybe not. Probably scratch to the underneath silver as soon as they are put on
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-HY...Q5fAccessories
-looks most like the Dorman's
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ht_2842wt_1165
They have the proper washer / flat seat, but are almost double the price of the dormans (and may in fact be the dormans being sold for a profit).
Aftermarket wheels may work with the lugs you showed, but they will NOT properly attach a Jag wheel to the car.
George
#94
03-31-2010, 11:01 PM
Veteran Member
George I need to correct acouple things here.
Adjusting front and rear "definitly" affects each other. Many times I see before front specs out, only to start the alignment in the rear as your supposed to and watched the front come in and not need anything further. Also as 1 I had today was so far out of wack. I set the rear toe 14 and 14. then brought the front camber in where I wanted it, set front toe, and then the left rear toe moved up to 27 in the red. I went to the back, reset the rear toe to 14, then had to go back up front, put the front back where I wanted it and then it all stayed were I set it...the short story is, if the alignment is out alot. sometimes you have to treat the specs front and rear like a funnel, distilling it down to the correct finished product. Moving back and forth between the front and rear resetting the suspension ....until all setting stay where you put them as you tighten the last bolt.
And I have on occassion set toe specs with the camber bolts and spec. Ive done this with tie rod ends that are seized( not the ball and socket) so they is no way to adjust the toe setting with the tie rod end. I have moved the camber left and right just enought to put the camber in a good spot and the toe exactly where I want without having to charge a customer money to replace a seized end link and labor. Its not an issue with the operation of the suspension, only the person doing the alignment.
Also positive to IS toe in +.26 total is not bad and is pretty much the norm for a Stype suspension. I have used even more than that when the tolerances in the suspension stack up a static toe setting is not enough to comphensate for what it will do driving down the road.
For the most part ya'll have got it, sometimes I think I should just do a video
And yes Joe, the 2nd alignment he wrote left frt camber maxed (yes if maxed too negative, you dont need more negative you need less! bring the tire staight up more to a -2to-4 or drop the right down to and -8) geez it doesnt seem that hard....and yes you toe I would have again preffered in the range of 20to28 total. I useally end up with most at 26 and when I check defelction, this is the most common number I am at that gives the tire a straight stance when driving.
I love alignments and end up helping other techs when needed with weird issues, they take me a total of 15 minutes to do correctly and If I have to tweek a few here and there for a customer again I will. Alignments are a "Compromise" you have to be able to give the customer a car that wont wear the tires unevenly and drives straight even taking into consideration road crown since roads are NOT flat.... Good night guys
Adjusting front and rear "definitly" affects each other. Many times I see before front specs out, only to start the alignment in the rear as your supposed to and watched the front come in and not need anything further. Also as 1 I had today was so far out of wack. I set the rear toe 14 and 14. then brought the front camber in where I wanted it, set front toe, and then the left rear toe moved up to 27 in the red. I went to the back, reset the rear toe to 14, then had to go back up front, put the front back where I wanted it and then it all stayed were I set it...the short story is, if the alignment is out alot. sometimes you have to treat the specs front and rear like a funnel, distilling it down to the correct finished product. Moving back and forth between the front and rear resetting the suspension ....until all setting stay where you put them as you tighten the last bolt.
And I have on occassion set toe specs with the camber bolts and spec. Ive done this with tie rod ends that are seized( not the ball and socket) so they is no way to adjust the toe setting with the tie rod end. I have moved the camber left and right just enought to put the camber in a good spot and the toe exactly where I want without having to charge a customer money to replace a seized end link and labor. Its not an issue with the operation of the suspension, only the person doing the alignment.
Also positive to IS toe in +.26 total is not bad and is pretty much the norm for a Stype suspension. I have used even more than that when the tolerances in the suspension stack up a static toe setting is not enough to comphensate for what it will do driving down the road.
For the most part ya'll have got it, sometimes I think I should just do a video
And yes Joe, the 2nd alignment he wrote left frt camber maxed (yes if maxed too negative, you dont need more negative you need less! bring the tire staight up more to a -2to-4 or drop the right down to and -8) geez it doesnt seem that hard....and yes you toe I would have again preffered in the range of 20to28 total. I useally end up with most at 26 and when I check defelction, this is the most common number I am at that gives the tire a straight stance when driving.
I love alignments and end up helping other techs when needed with weird issues, they take me a total of 15 minutes to do correctly and If I have to tweek a few here and there for a customer again I will. Alignments are a "Compromise" you have to be able to give the customer a car that wont wear the tires unevenly and drives straight even taking into consideration road crown since roads are NOT flat....
Good night guysI agree that the "Tech" that did these alignments really didn't seem too interested in anything but getting the car out of the door.
Take care,
George
#95
04-01-2010, 12:38 AM
Those Dormans are 59 bucks total for 20 at Street Side Auto, free shipping and 5 percent off with coupon code mc1.
http://www.streetsideauto.com/produc...GoogleShopping
http://www.streetsideauto.com/produc...GoogleShopping
Last edited by Bull27; 04-01-2010 at 12:40 AM.
#96
04-01-2010, 06:53 AM
Veteran Member
Bull,
Make absolutely certain that whatever lug nuts you wind up choosing are ONE-PIECE CHROME. Do not buy a painted lug nut. Do not buy another set of two-piece lug nuts. I have the Mitsubishi lug nuts and I'm extremely happy with them. Bought them from my local Chrysler dealership and got to hold 4 of them in my hands and try one of them on my car before the other 16 were ordered for me. I paid a $30 premium for that over ordering them from rockauto.com back in late January, but that was before we knew that the Chrysler dealership lug nuts and the rockauto.com lug nuts were essentially the same....
Don't try to save $20 or $25 by ordering a set of ebay lug nuts that may very well show up on your doorstep as two-piece or likely to rust. Stick with either the Mitsubishi lug nuts or the rockauto.com lug nuts. Those of us who've already done this swap have both, and we're all happy with them. Use our experience and save yourself some potential grief down the road....
And remember, you'll need to upgrade the lug nut wrench in your trunk from a 19mm to a 21mm. Best way to do that is to go to Autozone and buy a 21mm socket that fits a half-inch drive and an 18-inch breaker bar that fits your socket. That's what I did. Cost me less than $20 and it's the best tire tool you'll ever have....
Good luck with the alignment fiasco. Keep us posted....
Make absolutely certain that whatever lug nuts you wind up choosing are ONE-PIECE CHROME. Do not buy a painted lug nut. Do not buy another set of two-piece lug nuts. I have the Mitsubishi lug nuts and I'm extremely happy with them. Bought them from my local Chrysler dealership and got to hold 4 of them in my hands and try one of them on my car before the other 16 were ordered for me. I paid a $30 premium for that over ordering them from rockauto.com back in late January, but that was before we knew that the Chrysler dealership lug nuts and the rockauto.com lug nuts were essentially the same....
Don't try to save $20 or $25 by ordering a set of ebay lug nuts that may very well show up on your doorstep as two-piece or likely to rust. Stick with either the Mitsubishi lug nuts or the rockauto.com lug nuts. Those of us who've already done this swap have both, and we're all happy with them. Use our experience and save yourself some potential grief down the road....
And remember, you'll need to upgrade the lug nut wrench in your trunk from a 19mm to a 21mm. Best way to do that is to go to Autozone and buy a 21mm socket that fits a half-inch drive and an 18-inch breaker bar that fits your socket. That's what I did. Cost me less than $20 and it's the best tire tool you'll ever have....
Good luck with the alignment fiasco. Keep us posted....
#97
04-01-2010, 07:08 AM
Veteran Member
Those Dormans are 59 bucks total for 20 at Street Side Auto, free shipping and 5 percent off with coupon code mc1.
http://www.streetsideauto.com/produc...GoogleShopping
http://www.streetsideauto.com/produc...GoogleShopping
The thing is are you sure the link you provided is for a quantity of 10? It comes up with a price of 31.47, but there is no specific mention of quantity. If they are $31.47 for 10, so 63 total, with free shipping over $50 + your 5% off mc1 coupon, then I'm in.
That should bring the total to 59 bucks out the door for the lugs. Perfect.
George
#98
04-01-2010, 07:24 AM
Bull thanks for that link!
The thing is are you sure the link you provided is for a quantity of 10? It comes up with a price of 31.47, but there is no specific mention of quantity. If they are $31.47 for 10, so 63 total, with free shipping over $50 + your 5% off mc1 coupon, then I'm in.
That should bring the total to 59 bucks out the door for the lugs. Perfect.
George
The thing is are you sure the link you provided is for a quantity of 10? It comes up with a price of 31.47, but there is no specific mention of quantity. If they are $31.47 for 10, so 63 total, with free shipping over $50 + your 5% off mc1 coupon, then I'm in.
That should bring the total to 59 bucks out the door for the lugs. Perfect.
George
Jon: I read your lug post again last night, thats great that you found them local, good find. These one's I posted a link for are the same part number Dorman lug nuts that everyone bought from Rock Auto. I also wish McGard had some lugs that fit, I have their locking lug nuts on my vehicle, and they are are definately solid and quality (yes I do need them in my neck of the woods) haha. Also, I had to buy a tire iron that fateful night seeing as I stripped/broke the lug wrench. Ill see if that will fit.
Last edited by Bull27; 04-01-2010 at 07:58 AM.
#99
04-01-2010, 07:57 AM
#100
04-01-2010, 08:25 AM
Veteran Member
I will call, confirm and post the answer but I would imagine thats the price for 10 seeing as thats how they come at Rock Auto. This definately seems like a great deal. $59 done and done.
Jon: I read your lug post again last night, thats great that you found them local, good find. These one's I posted a link for are the same part number Dorman lug nuts that everyone bought from Rock Auto. I also wish McGard had some lugs that fit, I have their locking lug buts on my vehicle, and they are are definately solid and quality (yes I do need them in my neck of the woods) haha. Also, I had to buy a tire iron that fateful night seeing as I stripped/broke the lug wrench. Ill see if that will fit.
Jon: I read your lug post again last night, thats great that you found them local, good find. These one's I posted a link for are the same part number Dorman lug nuts that everyone bought from Rock Auto. I also wish McGard had some lugs that fit, I have their locking lug buts on my vehicle, and they are are definately solid and quality (yes I do need them in my neck of the woods) haha. Also, I had to buy a tire iron that fateful night seeing as I stripped/broke the lug wrench. Ill see if that will fit.
Yeah I'd second a short - medium breaker bar with a 21 mm socket with these lugs.
If you bought one of those 4 way cross tire irons it should also have the 21mm socket. (or 7/8)
These Dorman ones are apparently one piece solid chrome and also carry a lifetime warranty as per the Dorman site.
I have a set of McGard conical seat lugs + locks I use on my Aftermarket wheels - They are good stuff too. I have heard nothing but good things about the Dormans - who btw are the OEM supplier of our wheel studs, so I'm going to go for them.
$59 is a GREAT price for it all delivered.
George