I just had the experience of putting my wife's '04 S-type in the dealer for repair. They were kind enough to give me a '16 XF as a loaner while the repair was being done. I had the experience of driving a '16 XF and an '04 S-type back-to-back. While the XF is a very nice car, and I have no complaints, it is inferior to the S-type in many ways. If you look across the parking lot, the S-type looks like a Jag, while the XF looks like a Nissan Altima rental car. The interior of the S-type is far more luxurious. The XF has the horrible on-off feature that shuts off the engine at stop lights. The XF has the pushbutton start feature, not a defect, but , again, more like a Nissan Altima rental car than a real Jaguar. The XF sticker price was $67,500 plus sales tax!
When I got home, I wanted to give my wife's S-type a big hug and a kiss. I suggest that any of you who own an '03-08 S-type, go out into the garage and do the same. As expensive as repairs are to these cars, they can be fixed for less than the sales tax, or, in some cases, the ad-valorem tag fees, of a new XF. The XF seemed designed to compete with the BMW and MB crowd, more than to attract a repeat Jaguar owner. Again, the XF is a very nice car---unless you own a low-mileage S-type!

 

Oh dear, Carl, and you didn't even mention the XF's great ugly maw of a mouth inspired by "Jaws"! (Quick, Henry, start her up for a quick getaway)

Naturally, styling features are to personal taste - whether S-Type or XF - some love 'em; others hate 'em. But you voice the worries of many S-Type owners that have despaired, both here and on other forums, that NONE of the later Jaguars inspire them to rush out and "upgrade".

The XE styling is another case in point - a "world car" - which I gather is a euphemism for "bland cookie cutter lookalike" that ignores all the styling heritage of Jaguar's unique past. It is given mythology that William Lyons had the great eye for engineering and styling. While I don't disagree, I believe that he had an even sharper eye for using the best out of brilliant people - led by Heynes for engineering; Malcolm Sayer for styling.

The world dominant XK engine did not happen by accident - and engine development is one area where modern Jaguars still shine. But the styling of all those beautiful saloons and sports cars has been abandoned. Even competitors like Enzo Ferrari were moved to comment that following the C and D Types, "the Jaguar E Type was the greatest car ever made"!

New XF? Perhaps XE? A new Jaguar GT sports car? Perhaps not . . . My solution has been to get a second "new" Jaguar, a low mileage top UK spec 2004 XK8 to share the miles with my spotless S-Type. Now, I'm turning my attention to finding an XJR of similar condition.

Perhaps Ford's parentage gave all 3 of these cars their unique birth - killing off the British Leyland committee inspired XJ-S and healing Jaguar's ailing economics so it could invest in much needed production technology. Now, alas with new owners, and new "world stylists" pulling the levers at Jaguar, we are surrounded by new models full of chromed plastic, buttons that go "ping", and buckets of teutonic styling that brings us back to your parking lot analogy.

Cheers,

Ken

 

Wow, a lot to agree with here. When my wife owned the ST, the dealer loaner was a '12 XF. I did like the rotary shift control and nav screen (auto stop/start would really suck in Atlanta traffic). The rear door styling looks like almost half the auto market today. The S joined the trend for retro styling, inspired by the '60's S Type and Mark series. Immediate classic. Other makes do the same today....the Dodge Challenger, Ford Mustang, Chevy Camaro are hot sellers.

The XJ-S Coupe actually is one of my personal favorites....because the rear roof line resembles '66-'67 GTO, Chevelle, Olds 442 and Skylarks. Unintentional, but still a good show (even when someone throws a small block Chevy 350 or LS-3 in there).

If I ever had to replace the S, I'd want a late model XK, XJ8, or if I have the $, a F-Type, which REALLY looks like a Jaguar should!

 

Agreed . . . and we are not alone. The F-Type leads the way, but many of the remaining pride have gone missing!

The pity is that if we, the marque's enthusiasts, cannot find an upgrade path among affordable current Jaguars, you risk losing a brand's strongest purchase motivators . . . word of mouth acclaim from satisfied current owners!

Ken

 

Be fair now guys, what about the X200 S Types, they are the pioneers in my opinion.

The XF, yes, what were they thinking, even the Series 1 was "ordinary".

The XE, well, best forget that one, it did not take down here.

We looked at another XJ-S 2 days ago, then I tried to get into it, HAHAHAHA, "Funniest Home Videos" winner there, so we are back in the S Types and thet is where we will stay for the foreseeable future.

We do miss the MIGHTY XJ-S, and after 16 years with it, that will take time to dimish.

 

Back 7 years ago when my wife and I were looking for a new vehicle for her, she really really wanted a Cadillac STS. While searching for one we stumbled across the "Modern" S Type, Joyce immediately fell for it, especially since it broke the mold. Upon doing our research we decided on our current 2005.

Moving forward, as we are seeing we cannot give these vehicles away, especially the 3.0's. If something were to happen and the vehicle was no longer driveable, we would consider moving away from the marquee (unfortunately) and most likely look really hard at the Genesis Luxury Sedan. Although it resembles the rest of the herd out there, we do like the lines of it.

Most likely Joyce will continue to drive her S Type for as long as possible, may be it will be like a Subaru and we can hand it down to our daughter in 4 years.

 

I've always thought the new Jaguar offerings look like really attractive Hondas...beginning with the XF. I don't notice them in traffic beyond thinking.."hey much sharper than normal Honda, there..." and then when it creeps fwd I spy the flat leaper on the bootlid. Despite looking like really attractive Hondas...they don't look like Jags.
F-Type is the exception, it seems to have managed to capture the Jag lines, somehow.

 

I was originally thinking of getting an XF 5.0 or Supercharged, just because of the constant issues popping up and issues I cannot seem to get anyone to really fix, like the electrical drain issue. I drove several XF's and were impressed by the engine and transmission, the interior definitely looked cheap presented with the ton of plastic. I never really like the style of the car as it had lost it's uniqueness. So, I never bit the bullet and bought one. If I were to get another Jag, it would probably be the XJ-L 5.0. Those are much more plush and gracious. These days with gas being much lower than the last 2 years that makes it an easier to swallow. But again, my children are in college with one left to enter and when that happens.. well, I might go with the F-Type instead, which I love. At that point, I'll be moving out of the house in the suburbs and moving into the city. Will I really need a car then?!!

I have to get a transmission replacement here soon or buy a new car. The question is do I want to dump money into a car which I love the looks of or do I want to upgrade into something which looks plain. Maybe Aston Martin or Maseratis, though the reliability in those cars, I don't know anything about.

 

Like Rick, I've decided that there will be no more Jaguars added to our herd. The Tata-generation cars have never appealed to me and it will not surprise me if their resale depreciation factor is every bit as steep as what we all must endure on our S-Types. So when I finally sell mine (or donate it to charity for the tax write-off if I keep it long enough), I'll just use our 2013 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited as my daily driver. It gives me more headroom / legroom / utility, it is very nicely appointed with leather and far more modern amenities than my S-Type has, it has a far-superior audio system, it can handle any snowstorm while my S-Type has to sit at home and wait for clear pavement again, and it is reasonably quick and nimble with the 3.6-litre 260-hp engine. Routine maintenance and repair costs should be a fraction of what our Jaguars have required, and I also like the fact that it will hold its resale value better than just about anything else available now....

That said, I continue to enjoy my S-Type for the great highway cruiser that it has always been. The fact that I was able to steal it back during some of the darkest days of the economic depression in December 2008 has consistently made it that much more appealing to me. It indeed remains a gorgeous sedan in my eyes. But from a strict cost/benefit analysis standpoint, I cannot justify keeping it. That's just how I'm wired....

 

>If I ever had to replace the S, I'd want a late model XK

That's my plan, in a couple of years look for a '15 XK Coupe, 5L NA, coming off lease, CPO.

Problem is XKs were always WAY more expensive than our S-Types...
==================================================
Jaguar: Grace, Pace, and Space - Sir William Lyons
Current Hers: '13 Lexus ES350
Current Mine: '08 Jaguar S-Type 4.2 "Satin Edition" (250.06 whp / 259.67 torque)
Past Ours: '05 X-Type 3.0/auto Jaguar Racing Green

 

Great strategies, one and all, and it's a personal judgement call.

Having said that, and having recently passed one of mine on to an admiring grandson, I like Rick's approach. Waiting 4 years is no wait at all, especially as I am sure you would invest that time to help your daughter understand and maintain her own growler. Bend my mate Grant's arm and get him to tell you of his daughter who undertook a full rebuild of an XJ6 engine for her own car. Four years may well make the F-Type more affordable . . . but in my case, I doubt it!

In my case, and others have hinted at it, money haggles would have insulted the passion, care and maintenance I have put into my cars . . . but the look of overwhelming disbelief and joy on my grandson's face (and the time and patience he has put into learning some of the ropes) make me feel GREAT!

My "new" 2004 4.2L XK8 Coupe arrives next week . . . and Grant has me worried I may may not fit down into it! That never stopped me for all those years with the E Type, but I'm older now (70 this year), and I'm gunna look foolish if I have to part with it before even driving it. That's where my daughter's plan kicks in . . . she already refers to the XK8 as "My Car" and insists on keeping the second set of keys.

In a single stroke, she has relegated our gorgeous S-Type to one that my 2 boys can fight over!

Cheers,

Ken

 

There's one thing that defies logic: BMW has stayed with their signature "kidneys" grille, regardless of how many years or upscale the platform. Bugatti grilles look like they haven't changed in a century. Wasn't or isn't there something unique or special about the XJ series of grilles that could have been put on a XF or XE that would indicate that they're mainstream Jaguars, and not some other brand?

Example: The E type nose resembles the newer XK (while skipping the XJ-S).
The XJ-6 or 12 nose resembles the modern XJ8.
The Mark II or S-Type nose looks like, a S-Type.

And then there's the XF, that looks like, um, er, well?

 

Hi [Warspite] . . . can I expand on your theme just a tad?

The classic saloons look great, and whilst you can track some elements from the early Mk 7,8, Mk1s, Mk2s, original S Type, Mk9,10, into the 420 & 420G. By the XJs, I reckon the most definable feature was the "hip" and rear quarter window styling allowing great rear seat access and comfort. The bonnet and grille styling was always a feature of continual development . . .

Turning to the sports cars, Jaguar slammed the door on its "saloon fallback" days of XK120, 140,150 and started turning out genuine world beating competition cars and GTs. Can I expand your list to include - C Type, D Type, XK-SS, E-Type, XJ13 . . . huge gap . . . X100, X150, XJ-220, F-Type. Here's where you'll find Jaguar's defining styling and it is at the front - a wide, low slung, rakish slit of a mouth - that if not growling, seems set like a shark - to STRIKE! They were sleek and streamlined. The name Malcolm Sayer should be writ large.

Perhaps that's why the S-Type, and especially after the styling update, drew such appeal. Above the front bumper, it was drawing on the styling heritage of all those early sports cars and saloons. But, look below - and there it is - that wide, low slung, mouth. It fitted and grew off that styling heritage. Like the X100 of the same vintage, these were cars that were definable, IMMEDIATELY . . . as JAGUARS!

My 2c is up, but I must thank you for inspiring me to think hard about why, after nearly 50 years spent living with about 25 different Jags (not all at once, of course), I am delighted to live with the few I have left, but regret I see no appeal for me in any of the current crop save the F-Type which I doubt I will ever afford.

Ken

 

Ken, you are welcome to do so at any time.

I'm into classic cars, and early XKs were unmistakable for anything other than a Jag. Period.

An example of something so sacred, it was literally asked for by customers. The 1935 through 1939 Packard, once the poster for American class..even in its entry levels. The whole front clip is a work of art. Well, the war came and Packard was the only manufacturer that Rolls-Royce trusted to build a version of the Merlin engine. The result was the P-51. A world-beater.

Packard's fortunes diminished post-war, and just before they disappeared, they came out with a concept car called the Request. Standard late 1950's body, with a smaller version of the late '30s grille! They knew what their loyal customers wanted (hence the name "Request.").

Moral of the story? When you have "brand loyal" customers, do what you can to retain them, not give them styling that looks like the others...because they become price-shoppers.

And like Ken, I may not be around long enough to afford a new or late model used F-Type....but make no mistake....THAT'S a Jaguar!

 

Is XF "indian" Jag?
What kind of repair did you get done and how much did you pay? Was it brake pads replacement for $1000 or oil change for $500?

 

I thought the XF had already been designed when Tata bought Jaguar.

 

Ironic the X-type S-type and XF are Ford creations while the F-type is the "Indian" car but is closer to Jaguar lines.

 

It's hard to describe the S-Type as a Ford creation. Yes they were the ultimate owner but they didn't create the S-Type.

 

I was watching documentary about designing 2015 Ford Mustang. Project boss said Ford manufactures only 3 components: body, engine and transmission. Jaguar only manufactures 2: body and engine. I am not even sure about engines, where is 3.0 engine plant?

 

Suppose the block is made in plant X and the heads in plant Y and the ... well you get the idea. With X in country A and Y in B. Etc.

What would your question mean? Nothing. Well, that's pretty much the case. But do google for more detail if you care.

Here's an example though http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jaguar/...et-employ-1400