Isn't that "internal EGR" (if I got the name right)? If you reduce it then the engine will be lacking EGR won't it?

 

I have my out and they look exactly the same!

 

No. The stock manifold I posted is from a 2003 STR. It is NOT an LS manifold. It does raise a good question. How close are the LS and S Type stock manifolds?? Here is a Lincoln LS passenger side manifold. Sorry it's not as detailed as the Jaguar picture.

Boy they sure look the same??
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It's pressure wave reversion. When an exhaust valve closes, it creates a subsonic pressure wave backwards towards the engine. Depending on the length/proximity of the tubes on the same side of the opening valve, exhaust gases can be pulled back in during the valve opening.
I've seen race engines without enough exhaust valve duration and too much header restriction where the intake plenum had black soot from reversion. The exhaust gas was being pulled back in PAST the cylinder and intake valve all the way to the plenum!
There is alot more to engines than air in/ air out and the piston pulling and pushing the air. Conversely, a closing intake valve causes the same effect in the intake manifold, that's why different runner lengths and plenum volumes are used to lessen the effect depending on the engine.
ERG valves allow a limited amount of exhaust gas to be send back into the intake stream, diluting and cooling the combustion temp, to reduce NOX emissions.

 

100% agreed, well done!

 

LOL, I took the time (out of curiosity), to search for this BYUNSPEED.COM people on google.com and here is what I came up with!

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16698450/18596-Longs-Way-Building-B-Parker-CO/

Their building is for sale and probably "EMPTY", so no wonder nobody will answer their phone... I talked to stainlessworks.net and they will take anywhere from 2-3 weeks to complete a set, and they will not take less than $800 plus shipping, "but", that was 2 weeks ago. I just checked their website and they now have changed the price to $1,096.75 plus shipping!!!

http://www.stainlessworks.net/cart/p...oducts_id=1724

I will not be chasing this as an option myself... There are other personal projects that I need to be investing my money in.

 

Er, thanks for that. The point I was asking was (whatever it's called) - won't changing the headers have multiple effects some/many of which are unwanted?

(I know what EGR is used for.)

I've owned a non-race car where the EGR resulted in soot in the intake manifold. I was horrified to see it. It didn't help the IACV (ISCV if you prefer)!

 

The main reasons most car makers use cast iron manifolds vs tubular steel is cost and sound.
No down side as I can see, free flowing exhaust without cylinder to cylinder reversion- that's the reason the first performance mod anyone makes to a car is tubular headers.
There could be even more power to be gained with a dyno tuned header i.e.- a tri - y header (also known as a 4-2-1 configuration) merged collectors and a specific primary tube length and stepped diameter that could only be determined on an engine dyno with trial and error.

The pic I've included is a Ferrari F355 exhaust OEM manifold (with the heat shielding removed). You can see it's a 4-2-1 design and tubular with equal length primary tubes. Ferrari engines are usually the standard by which all others are measured, they made their exhaust this way for a reason. Sound isn't an issue with Ferrari, nothing like the sounds of an F355 with full Challenge series exhaust. Very Formula 1 sounding!
These engines make 111 hp/liter naturally aspirated vs our STR's that make roughly 95 hp/liter -- with a supercharger!
Jags are a very different animal from Ferrari though, Jags were never tuned to be high horsepowered race cars for the street.
Even though I have an STR, I've never had the time to dig very deep into it. I almost guarantee there is a tons of performance to be had out of them as I'm sure the supercharger was an after thought to have a way to cheaply and reliably increase the power of the standard 4.2 they were already producing to compete with BMW and Mercedes.

 

Ferarri's sound sick with a challenge or Tubi exhaust... Mostly because of the staccato pulse due to crank angle.

I'm sure Jaguar left a LOT of power on the table with the STR. Even without breathing mods for fear of breaking the ZF trans. You could easily get 5+ extra lbs of boost out of it if you increased fuel with larger injectors and software alone.

THATS THE KEY - SOFTWARE. AND WHAT WE DON'T HAVE!!!!!

Look what Evosport has done with the Mercedes AMG s/c motors - +178 HP with a pulley, STOCK injectors, different intercooler, and software...

Ugh, this is the downside of such a low production car.

George

 

From its looks, the stock cast iron exhaust manifold looks ample in size and configuration to support high horsepower street engines.

 

Thanks for the details!

For the software, the most promising I know would be as used with Subaru (STi WRX etc) and/or Mitsu Evo. I'd suggest the thing to do is find out what PCM those cars actually use as I think it may be the same as / similar to the Denso our cars have. If so, the same tuning tools plausibly should be adaptable even if they don't work out of the box. There's an open source tool, IIRC, which would be one way to try.

If you get a PCM from those (or the like), take the lid off and note very carefully all the writing (on PCB, big chips, etc) & take photos.

 

I agree. There is NO way that our computers are only used in these cars.
If we have Denso's in them, I'm sure there's somebody somewhere that can get into it.

Ferrari tries to lock everything up and not have anything but factory parts available (try $936.00 for a single piston with rings) but with a little research, you can find other cars that use the same parts on certain things. Recently had an F355 here with a heater problem. The heater temp control valve was bad, $1000.00 from Ferrari. Same Bosch part number was used on Saab 2000's for $145.00. But the part through Saab became discontinued in Sept. 2010.
Even specialty car makers like Ferrari don't produce ALL their own parts- it still goes out to the lowest bidder in some cases.

 

With such a small volume of cars, I would imagine it would actually be the other way around, and that they would shop the other automaker's parts bins for non powertrain related components.

George

 

Exactly! Is like having two 4cylinders crankshaft/engines tight by the hips. It almost defeats the laws of physics, so they really rely on the strength of the metal 100 % and LOTS of precision (that’s a lot of stress on the metal). No to offend anyone, ‘cause I’ve always been a big Ferrari fan, but if you ever pay close attention to a high rev 4 cyl engine, like a Honda S2000 you will find out that it sounds very close to a Ferrari, is just that Ferraris will sound double of that, while 4 of those 8 cyl will skip a bit (if you know what I mean), and that’s because of their crankshaft design, firing order and the 4-2-1 header set up.

Ferrari has always squeezed the most out of their engines, that’s because they’ve always used rather small displacements so high revs and efficiency is a must! The use of double runner intakes, variable valve timing, high comp and long tube headers are standard rules. But like always there is a reason to all of these, “weight savings”, can’t make a competitive road racing car that’s heavy. So keep it small and light!

Back in ’99 I had the chance to start a business venture by buying and selling wrecked Ferraris, especially the F355 (therefore my email address). Almost all the time people emailed/called me about buying headers. ‘cause Ferrari used aluminum alloy headers in the F355 to save weight, it was a good idea, but they couldn’t sustain the heat and ended up cracking.

 

I don't know how we got on the subject of Ferarri's but... you have to understand the history to understand a Ferrari. Enzo Ferrari was a race car driver who realized he could fund his racing operations by selling cars to fellow speed junkies. His cars were purpose built to go fast. He grew up in a world dominated by Alfa Romeo, and cut his teeth on them. Sort of like Dr. Ferdinand Porsche did, taking essentially his VW Beetle and making a version optimized for speed. Both cars were light, and modestly powered (by todays standards), but were pheomenal performers in their day. Alfa Romeo pioneered the whole idea of the superleggera "Ultralight" in English in the early 1930's. Light, nimble cars, with strong powerplants. Displacement is strictly an American thing, until the last decade when the Europeans jumped on the bandwagon.

Over the years these cars evolved, both in good and bad ways... He never intended for these cars to become status symbols, reliable daily drivers or anything but out and out performance cars. In some ways they have catered to their status symbol clientelle, but most development is still based around speed...

Hell, Lamborghini was a tractor maker who had Bought a Ferarri and his wife kept burning out the clutch, so he put a tractor clutch in it, then contacted Enzo Ferarri and told him he had "fixed" the flaw in his car. Ferarri said if you think you can build a better car, go ahead and try.. And so the great rivalry was born.

Sir William Lyons, in the early days of Jaguar Development was a Luxury coach builder, who later became interested in performance with the D and E types. However once again, modern Jaguars are a compromise of both.

Take care,

George

 

Careful with comparing engines of different brands, there is so much that determines what you can get out of it.
The Mercedes AMG s/c has a twin-screw, so yes, it’s easy to boost it up, just look at the twin-screw I use.
The jaguar engine is of course not built purely for power; emissions/reliability has played a role, and don’t forget the very low (imho) fuel consumption for the supercharged engine…
ECU tune is somewhat overrated; you will not get much out of it as some may believe (contrary to the new 5.0 SC engine, where there is a torque limit programmed!).
The tune leaves a lot of room to increase boost with the (h)eaton, if you don’t boost it up, about 25 hp increase seems possible.
Many (but not so much in the US it seems) have been able to re-program the Jaguar denso ECU, trouble is not so much in cracking it (with just the WDS/IDS you can alter the data fields stored on device and also use it to upload the altered maps!), but more imported is knowing what data fields are used by the ECU program (and how). This will not be the same for an Evo or Mitshibishi (and also the Volvo which is using Denso chips). However it helps if you understand Denso programming from what I have learned.

 

They're in the Volvo T5 (is that the name? is it R5?) & XC90 etc, I think.

Such as www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/2004r/R5-DensoEMS.pdf

Cracking the maps etc will be work LOL

 

From what I can tell, the main people that use a "re-map" in the UK are Paramount Performance. Speaking to Gerry, it's a limited thing on the 4.0 with a bit more variance on the 4.2. Their .bat file is uploaded after a couple of base runs then tested. Torque is what they're after, not so much out and out horsepower. They also have headroom, or safe tune, so as not to damage the engine.
I've seen what over programming can do to a s/c engine, melted pistons.
I understand that using a 3.2 ecu (variable valve timing) could accept a high performance map - but again it's finding someone to write the custom code, and dyno testing it.
Avos' advice is sound, leave the ecu with it's own map and concentrate on the cooling of the engine/induction temps. Or, be prepared to spend a lot of money uprating everything connected to the engine for marginal gains and less safety. It isn't a magic answer - the best answer for major gains is one Andre has considered long ago, and developed, the twin screw.

 

The TS does seem a good way. I've not seen compelling reasons for messing with the PCM but people "just want to do it" LOL

Best I can tell:

The 3.0 with VVT is the PTEC which I think is a rebadged Denso 16-bit. The 4.0 is the same PCM.

The non-VVT STR is a Denso 32-bit.

The later 4.2 (STR) got VVT, and a different Denso (aka PanPAG). I'm not sure if that Denso came in before VVT but only a tuner would likely care.

 

subscribing, I guess I'm late to the party. I sent the guy an e-mail but I see he already sold them to some LS guy. Bummer he was local too.

I'd pick up a set if they would be about $500. I gotta yank the motor out anyway. Anyone wants to pitch in for the sake of the experiment