Hey all. Well, now that is had gotten nice and cold here looks like another issue has raised its ugly head.
Wife left for work this morning, no issue what so ever, all perfect. When it was time to head home, got the call, car won't start, doesn't even turn over. So, I headed over there to see what was going on. Here's the deal. First off, battery was dead, totally dead, the touchscreen didn't even come on. So I hooked up the jumper cables and charged it up, when to start it and still nothing. But, all the electrics came on and worked just like they should, just no crank. I did feel/hear the starter try to go, but almost seemed stuck. Since I was using my pathetically weak Matrix to jump it, I figured it just couldn't provide the power to get the mighty Jag to go. Got a nice big trunk to jump me, same thing, won't start and seems like the starter is trying to turn, but just won't. The odd thing was, the guy giving me the jump said all his lights dimmed like there was a massive draw on his car from mine. The Jag still won't start. Went into ETM on it and the battery was at 14 V, so it obviously is good, and its not old (I know I know, it could still be suspect but I doubt it). So, it appears that for some reason the starter is drawing way too much (hence the guys truck feeling it bad). I know these starters are pretty iron clade and can go the distance. Also since it was fine this morning I doubt it just decided to die. I know this car inside and out for the most part, aside from the starter of course. I'm wondering if it is somehow stuck (can something on it stick and cause a huge draw when it is engaged) maybe frozen as it is -30C here now. Now, my wife did get stuck this morning when getting out of her spot (had a big storm here, they cleared the lot but left a nice big pile behind all the cars from the plow) and when I got her over it I noticed it has scrapped all along the underside of the car, could snow have gotten in and frozen the starter up? Anyway, we left the car at her work and will go back tomorrow to check the obvious (fuses, relays and the like). And if that fails to solve the problem, I'll get it towed to my heated garage, let it thaw out for a while and see what that does. I would have checked these small things tonight, but it was freezing, pitch black (yes, its dark by 5 here now) and I was not dressed for it. Anyone have any other ideas to try tomorrow. I haven't had a look at JTIS to see where the starter on the STR is, but I already have a feeling I won't like it. I don't think the started is dead, since as far as I know they don't just die without reason and if it was dead it shouldn't even be trying to start should it? I know bow to the Jag gurus out there for any words of wisdom!
Thanks

 

I'd drag it into a heated garage for awhile and see if it responds.

BTW- please hit the para key once in a while. Very hard to read otherwise.

 

Ya, sorry about the paragraph thing. Was still kinda frozen from being outside for so long, the brain hadn't warmed up yet! I'm hoping I can fix it tomorrow without a tow, but we'll see. I've been doing some digging around and I think besides checking all the relays I'll discon/recon the battery cables just in case it is a bad connection, however unlikely. From what I have found, starters don't just suddenly bite the big one without warning. Maybe I'll give it the good ol technical tap and see if that does anything. Where exactly is the starter on this car? Don't have JTIS around to check atm.
Thanks

 

It seems that you probable got a problem with earth Connection.

 

+1 with Sorken. Check the ground at the starter and also the engine grounds.

 

If the big drain that affected the truck only happened when trying to crank (as opposed to immediately on connection) it must be a kind of switched short. That sounds exactly like a starter motor that won't spin. The initial current is always huge but as it spins there's "back EMF" that reduces the current. Maybe a starter can ice up?

 

I will check all the grounds first, since it seems most likely as suggested. Also, the drain on the truck was only when cranking, which is why I thought stuck starter. Like Jagv8 said, current is being sent to the starter (a lot of it) and since it won't turn, its staying high sucking all power it can get from anywhere. That perfectly describes what is happening. Can starters freeze. I have heard of them freezing around here. It's rare, but can happen, usually after a big snow or when someone ditches the car since snow gets packed everywhere, melts when the engine warms up, then freezes when you park it. Result, frozen starter and this exact issue when trying to start it. But, I will check fuses and relays, grounds, and give the starter a tap if I can. Otherwise, its a tow to a heated garage and let it warm up.

One thing is, I don't seem to hear a clicking like the solenoid engaging. Don't know if I should be or not, just thought I'd mention it in case it is important!

Thanks

 

Don't try to crank for too long as if it doesn't spin the heat created in the starter windings and the stress on the battery are both bad news. (Heat = watts = amps x volts; amps are a LOT when stalled.)

 

Ya, I know all that draw could do damage. I'll keep the cranks to a min if they don't work! Well, I'm heading out to tackle this in a few minuets. I'll let you all know how it goes. Hopefully it goes very good!

 

Might want to check to see if the car has a factory installed block heater. Mine does.

 

Starter is on the passenger side. Get at it from underneath. Not too bad to remove.

I would remove starter and get it bench tested. Then polish all the big high current cables from the battery to the starter. Yes it sounds like the starter is frozen and most likely will work fine when thawed out.

I never hear any clicking either so don't know if it does not click or I just don't hear it.

Do you have the belly pans on the car?
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I just skimmed over your issue so forgive me if am repetitious. Your starter could have seized up for whatever reason causing the battery drain but it could have blown the starter mega-fuse (500amp) to the starter preventing it from responding. Be cautious when checking it is a direct connection to the battery.

Link to OneLine http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto...x2052003en.pdf

 

What's the block heater, does it heat the engine before you start it?

 

Yes, exactly. The typical example consist of an electrical immersion heater that warms the coolant prior to engine start. It's normal here to see cords dangling out from under the hood or through the front grills of cars and to 'plug a car in' to the mains for a few hours in really cold (-30*C or lower) weather. Warmer than that I don't bother.

Looks like this:



I bought a new-to-me SUV last month as a winter beater. I should go see if it's got one.

 

Ok, thanks for that, ive not seen that before, but I live in the U.K. So no call for anything like that.

 

Update, and thanks for all the tips. Progress but still not starting. First thing I did was check the relays/fuses - all good. Next disconnected the battery just in case something was stuck on or whatever. Then, looked under the car (still have the trays on so can't see much)but guess what, full of snow and ice. I banged the belly pan and there was ice chunks everywhere. Still couldn't get at the starter. However, got in, tried to start and this time no massive current draw and you could feel/hear the starter trying to go, but it just couldn't spin. Based on all the ice I saw up under the belly tray, I say it is just frozen up and can't turn as clubairth1 thinks as well. The last few days have been snowy and windy with lots of drifting, probably explaining all the ice buildup in there. Seems like I need to thaw everything out. Only problem is getting a tow. Due to the weather, I cant even get through to anyone! Looks like I'll have to wait, or hope for a sudden heat wave.

And I do have a block heater but no where to plug in where the car is unfortunately!

 

Portable generator!

 

When I first read your original post, my initial thought was a dead, frozen battery. If dead and frozen, it won't really take a charge. The battery could have died for many reasons, such as frequent short trips with heavy electric loads, especially the heater fan on high, for example, and heated seats if you have them, etc.

Many years ago I learned the hard way that a dead, frozen battery can explode with a jump start. Perhaps the battery isn't 100% dead, but still low and cold enough that it is fighting a jump. Throw in the heavy load from trying to spin the starter and who knows what will happen. It could very well bog down the vehicle supplying the jump, just as you have described. The 14 volt reading you measured, if taken at rest, can be misleading, so don't let that throw you. A reading under load is what you really need.

I like your plan to have the car towed home to a warm garage. Once thawed out, you can properly charge and load test the battery and charging system. If the battery had been discharged enough to freeze, a jump start could have caused internal damage such as warped plates.

In the meantime, if you still can't get a tow, how about bringing a warm, fully charged spare battery? I'm hesitant to say get a new battery until you can properly test the old one, but if you have a spare car from which you can rob a known good battery, I'd try that. I do suggest getting the suspect battery out of the system completely and trying over. Troubleshooting the electric system with a suspect battery still installed can be an exercise in futility, as a bad battery can skew the results. (I don't care to discuss how I know this or how much it cost me to learn this...) If you don't have a spare, you could always remove the suspect one, thaw it out at home and charge/test it there. If you don't have a battery load tester, I think places like Sears will do it for free.

 

kr9864: Great minds think alike! I had thought of this and on Saturday night, took the battery out, brought it in, warmed it up and charged it up then had it tested. It's all good! I do believe that the battery was somewhat to blame in subsequent attempts to start as when the original fault occurred, it sucked the thing as dead as dead could be. And as you stated, you can't really get a full charge into a frozen/cold battery.

The car is getting towed this afternoon so it should be all good by tonight after a nice thaw. Also I can report that all the relays are working and fuses good. Also, once I plunked the freshly charged warm battery back in and turned the key, I got some noise from the starter (its trying to work!) but it just can't spin those gears, in my mind further supporting the idea of ice in there messing things up. Seems this is actually more common than I thought as my dad said he remembers things like this happening and all it takes is some time in a nice warm garage to solve everything.
Thanks

 

Hopefully the warm garage will "thaw" your cat out & all will be well.
I was in "the Peg" a few years ago (in Jan, Feb & March unfortunately) but was amazed at all of the plug-ins for block heaters that were available - but given that it got down to -40C at night, quite understandable. Are you able to plug yours in at night & during the day? I'm sure that it would make less stress on the starter motor etc.

Good luck with "the thaw"............