Somehow I hurt one of my 19” summer wheels, and the car has a steering shake / shimmy that starts at about 45, and is most prevalent till about 55, but is still there even at faster speeds.

These wheels have been in storage for the winter and just went back on the car this week. There were no issues when they came off the car.

I spun the front wheels on a balancer, and one was out by .75 on the outside, the other by .5. I didn’t add weights yet, cause my buddy didn’t have .25 stick on’s but he got them now. Do you think that it’s wheel balance or something else going on? I don’t want to buy tires just to find out it’s a damaged wheel. To make matters worse. Read my thread on my broken lugnut. I ended up destroying a stock wheel, so I don’t have a set of those to put back on the car while I get these sorted.

You can see and feel the steering wheel shaking slightly back and forth. Car is 100% smooth until 45 or so mph, and most violent / noticeable shaking is between 45 and 55. But the car never completely smooths out after 55.

I know I need to balance the wheels properly (how they got OUT of balance in storage I don't know).

If that doesn't sort it. What would you do / approach next. The tires are somewhat worn, but still servicable (I was planning on getting another season out of them). How can you tell if it's tires or a bent wheel? There are no obvious wheel bends. and it seemed ok spinning on the balancer.

Anything else I need to look for?

Thanks,

George

 

I agree with your approach of balancing the wheels first, and if that doesn't fix it, then deal with the tires. How were the summer wheels stored? Did they sit upright on the tire tread? Most folks don't believe that tires can flatspot if they sit upright off the car, but some tires have been known to do that, especially worn ones. The best way to store wheels with tires on them long-term is to hang them from a rafter. Granted, most folks don't have the room to do that....

 

Wheels were on their sides. This is the 3rd year I've had them, and the 1st year I've had problems with them. Figures it would also be the year that I would have to destroy the stock wheel and can't swap them out until they are sorted.

I'm seriously considering finding an OEM Jag set off of an XF or something 18's and calling it a day. These 19" wheels are killing me as far as Tire prices. I'd probably be able to pickup a complete set of XF wheels / tires for the price of the 19" tires if that's what it needs. We'll see.

More after balancing I guess. I was just wondering if there's anything else I should check.

George

 

when you removed them did you mark the position and the lug so when you installed they went on exactly where they came off?
For example LF is ok but the wheel lug should match also.especially if the wheels were balanced on the car.

 

They weren't balanced on the car...

They are marked as far as position on the car (although someone told me to switch it up and see if it changes its response) but they aren't indexed by lug or anything.

George

 

MyBlackCat sort of took the words out of my mouth... I was going to ask if the last time they were balanced, was it off or on the car? Now for a little tire talk.. I assume they are directional tires. I found out from a couple of people that when you have high performance directionals, it makes more sense to get them road force balanced, and fit them to the car..If you feel any vibrations, work those out with a "on the car" balance, then DON'T ROTATE your tires unless they start to pick up a wear vibration. That leads me to my next one...Sometimes if you get uneven tire wear you can end up with a vibration..This is more in line with the small MPH range you are feeling it. I would also check the brake rotors for any run out..That is basically a wobble from the rotor that can also feel like a wheel balance issue. The main visual checks are.. With the wheel and tire on the balancer, make sure it is on tight. Run it up to speed, then as it spins, watch the area around the bead for any movement. Also, do it again only this time, stair at the tread. If you see anything that looks like the lines of the tread are moving from side to side, you have a shifted belt. If those two things check out OK, move on to the rotors... A quick "shade tree" way to check is to spin the hub and listen to the pads brushing the rotor..If it varies, the rotor may be out. Then I highly recommend at least a road force balance.

I know a little long..But I hope it helps..Also, by storing your wheels on their side, you should be fine..That's how I stored mine and never had a problem through two different cars...

 

I doubt it's brakes, wouldn't that show with the stock wheels and tires?

Yeah I know about the road force balancing, but I've never had a need for it before. I actually bought the wheels mounted and balanced from the tire shop bolted them and they were like stock. Had them rebalanced last year, when they were rotated (as far as front to rear). I think it may just be tire wear. I need to stare at them on the balancer. I can get a regular dynamic balance done for free.. So that's the first step.

Now, yes they hare directional tires. Falken Avenisis 804 (i think), 245/35/19. It may be that these tires deform or once worn to a certain point no longer keep their smoothness. I just want to make 100% sure its not a damaged wheel before i drop coin for new tires - these still have some servicable life left...

When the wheels are on the balancer I'll run a runout dial on the rotors, but I doubt it's brakes because it would have shown with the stock wheels. (albeit the more unsprung weight of the bigger wheels / tires may have exacerbated the situation)

I just don't get the dramatic difference, unless I bent something really quickly this season.

I guess time will tell...

George

 

It sounds like your on the right track... Just to add a bit more, then I'll shut up.....

With the rotors...You may not feel it with the stock set up (17" I'm guessing) but when you add a +2 size fitment coupled with the stiffer sidewall...Sometimes even the slightest thing can cause vibration...I had an issue with the white Accord when I went from stock 16" to 18". It ended up being a faulty hub centric ring of all things...It didn't seat perfectly in the rim..Believe me, you couldn't see it, but once replaced...all was better. Balance issues is what drove me to get 17"'s on the silver Accord...But, was never really happy with the handeling...It was good, just the 18" set up was soooo much better...I could out corner my cousin's 530i with sport package in that car....I would definitely start with a standard balance, then move to a road force if you need it. If that doesn't work, and the tires inspect OK, then I would look for someone who does on the car balancing...Funny thing is the only time I needed it was on my 89 Chevy Beretta, and that was back when I lived in the Garden State. So, if you need help locating a special shop like that, I bet they are still around. They were in New Brunswick, but I forget the name. My cousin should be able to get the name though..

 

You know, I didn't even think about the hub centric rings as a potential cause... or them not being perfectly on the hub. looks like I need to take everything off. CLEAN the hubs. Balance them, and then possibly do road force.

There is a million sources of what this could be. One thing I did notice. When I took the wheels off the other day to spin them on the balancer. One of the hub centric rings came off with the wheel, the other one stayed on the hub... food for thought there.

Oh and my stock setup was 16" wheels. I have a 3.0. So its a + 3 upgrade lol.

George

 

NaNa NaNa..... My 05 came stock with 17's.....

Let us know what you find out...Yea, I would definitely check all those things out before you write off the tires...

 

Wanna Sell Em?? I need a new stock / winter set....

I Missed a set of antares 17's with tires for 425 shipped on ebay.. I had them "watched" and when I realized my stock wheel was destroyed they had ended with buy it now... GRRRRR

 

If I had a decent set to replace them, I'd give them to ya...They are the Kronos wheel...In my opinion, the ugliest wheel in the lineup..But didn't order it new so who's complaining.....

 

Well If you'd ever considered plus sizing, or switching them out, I'd be willing to buy them. I really don't care what they look like if i'm only using them in the winter...

 

Right now I'm on the fence on how long I'm going to keep her... I kind of got bitten by the Jeep bug again...I know, totally different animal..But, if I keep her I'm going to try and swing an upsize to 18" but will also keep a winter set. So who knows...What style are your stock wheels... I'll ask the dealer when I'm in next week if they know of a source for a replacement..

 

It's the "Artemis" Wheel.
I found a few on ebay...
Lakeshore wheel and tire has them as well.

http://www.detroitwheelandtire.com/p...2003&model=891

I just happen to think they are atrocious lol...

George

 

OK...I would agree... The Kronos, well, make those in 17's and cut out the spokes....



Uggg... But I can live with em, I guess...

 

So I dynamically balanced all of the wheels..

And well, it feels smoother at low speed, but it still has that same exact shake that kicks in at 45 or so. We couldn't determine any sort of wheel imperfection while the wheels were spinning on the balancer, at least one visible to the naked eye.

I think the next step is "Road Force" Balancing on a hunter GSP 9700. I found a shop locally that has one. I think they charge $15 per tire to do it, so it's worth the $60 to give it a shot. Apparently that cured the shakes on my buddy's Porsche with aftermarket wheels. He's the one who told me about the shop.

I wonder if the road force balance guys, if they aren't able to straighten it out will be able to determine if the tires or the wheels are the cause. I don't want to spring for new tires only to figure out I have bad / bent wheels.

More to come...

George

 

SO...

I got new tires mounted and road forced balanced on my car.

245/40/19 in the front, 275/35/19 out back..

They fit, and do not rub, but look sort of out of place on the car. There is a pronounced difference in the amount of sidewall... But it almost looks like something that belongs on a muscle car rather than a luxury car, especially with the 275's in the rear. It's amazing how much smaller it makes the wheels look too...


However I can't complain for $150 (mounted and road forced as well), from a friend, but I'm not too thrilled with it. I'll attach some pics so you guys can get the idea.

NOW the bigger issue. The steering wheel shimmy.. It's WORSE with the fresh tires...

Its more pronounced at 50 mph and over a bit more of a speed range. (45 -50 = the worse, but it becomes slightly detectable at 35, and is still detectable till you pass 60) Plus the car never feels completely 100% smooth.

There was NO obvious damage to any of the wheels, and they road force balanced just fine.

Where should I go from here?

Could it be an alignment issue? Suspension? Just too much tire for the car?

I think I need to speak to Brutal or one of the other Jag techs for recommended alignment specs with these wheels / tires. If it is wheels and tires, I'm just going to sell these off and start fresh with a new set.

Thanks again,

George

 

George, did I read it correctly, they did an on car ballance?

 

No, not on the car but road forced balanced on a hunter GSP9700.

I'm really not happy with these tires for two reasons 1) They are LOUD. Sounds like a freight train dragging down the road, and 2) It's just too big a tire setup for the car. I got it to momentarily rub in the back over a big bump today, plus it just looks odd.... Like I said it looks like it belongs on a muscle car, not a luxury car.

I'm thinking the issue may be the hubcentric rings. - That's the last missing step. I'm going to try and order a set of aluminum ones from discount tire direct. I noticed when my wheels were going on, that they never really "sit" on the hub - you have to hold the wheel on while threading the lug nuts, plus I have one ring in the front that stays on the hub when the wheel comes off. Every other wheel / tire set I've had the wheel has had a firm seat on the hub when it's been on, without lugs. I have polycarbonate rings now.

I'm thinking of ordering a new set of aluminum hubcentric rings from discount tire direct, as a last ditch effort to salvage these wheels. Otherwise I think I'm just going to get a brand new set of 18" wheels and tires. I'm really annoyed that I ended up destroying my stock wheel in that lugnut fiasco, because I have no choice but to drive around on these wheels at this point.

If I can get this set to stop vibrating it would be a perfect setup for an 04+ XJ or XK. Since they use bigger tires to start with.

George