Caster or Camber ever done?[ sorry about spelling.

 

I haven't had it aligned in a couple years, but it tracks perfectly straight, even with the shake, you can take your hands off the wheel and it tracks perfectly straight down the road.

I don't think, although I could be wrong alignment would lead to the kind of vibration issues I'm experiencing. It's either hubcentric rings, , a rim not properly seating on the hub, a wheel out of balance or bent - despite being road forced, or suspension. (I doubt the last one because of the use of stock wheels not causing a problem).

George

 

Exactly.....

 

And my car officially rubs on these tires.

First every now and then on a big bump you'll hear a rear tire catch the rear fender ever so slightly.

Second at low speed almost full lock turns in a parking lot or the like, you'll catch the front inner fender liners. It's just too much tire for the car.

I'm officially on the lookout for a new set of wheels / tires. I am going to get new hubcentric rings for these, and I am going to go with aluminum ones.

Now the million $$ question.

Do I get another set of aftermarket wheels, OR do I find a Jag wheel in 18" which is hubcentric, and go with that and eliminate a whole bunch of the fitment issues etc that come with aftermarket wheels / tires?

George

 

I would go with the Jaguar wheels if performance is your main objective. If you are looking for a distictive look, then back to the after-market. Resist the "e-bay" type shops and look at offerings from places like TireRack. Their reputation has been built on quality fittments and will work very close with you to ensure you get good performance.

 

The ONLY hubcentric aftermarket wheel on the market is the Coventry Hornet. Which I still haven't seen on an S-Type. Everything else will use some sort of hubcentric ring (Even OEM Volvo Wheels). At this point I'm really torn between finding a set of 17" OEM S-type wheels, and calling it a day, and giving up on the whole "big wheel" thing with these cars, or Maybe getting a set of 18" Jag or aftermarket wheels. I'm 2k + into these wheels, and basically have a set that at least for this car is not useable - It makes the car drive like a cheap economy car with bad suspension, or worse. Maybe I'm getting old and just don't care anymore... I just want the car to drive nice and smooth again

The crazy thing. I had 20" staggered Wheels on my BMW 740i, I hit a pothole on the FDR In Manhattan so hard I thought I was going to lose a filling. But the car drove perfectly fine - WITH a visible bend on the outer lip of the wheel, which I didn't notice until I got to my destination. Thank god It didn't break the bead. This car has big wheels that are road forced balanced, and no visible or perceptible bends, and it shakes like one of those old motel beds that had a slot for quarters...

George

 

Our 2005 S-Type 3.0 came with the standard 17-inch Kronos wheels that some find unappealing or simply plain-jane. But I've had absolutely no wheel problems other than my personal decision to replace the lousy two-piece stock lug nuts, and 17-inch replacement all-season tires are far less costly than 18-inch or 19-inch versions. Plus, our car still rides like it is brand new even with the cheap Hankook Ventus V4 ES H105 tires that the dealership slapped on just before I bought it at 18,000 miles (now pushing 43,000 miles). My recommendation? Stick with the stock wheels. Resist the urge to blow big bucks on fancy-schmancy rims and keep that money in your pocket for tire and lug nut replacement time. These 3.0 cars are not rocket racers, they're simply highway cruisers. Don't waste your money on different wheels....

 

I have the fancy-schmancy rims lol, already spent the $$ on them. 19" HP design Takeover's. (pics are somewhere in this thread). And I'm two 19" sets of tires in.

I've already HAD the lug nut issue, remember? And a destroyed stock wheel as a result.

Right now I have 3 16" Stock Artemis wheels, 4 decent 16" Tires, and the 19's with new tires (that shake).

I really want a set of 17 or 18" wheels on the car. That rides nice, can use all season tires etc...

At this point I basically have to buy a new set of wheels... Do I track down a set of 17" or 18" factory wheels even if off an XF or XJ? Do I get the Coventry Ones, or do I go aftermarket again? All 04+ XJ's, XF's, 07+ XK's, use the EXACT same wheel fitments as our S-Types do. As far as bolt pattern, centerbore and offsets. Basically the only thing that changes are tire sizes.

The difference between 17" and 18" tires is reasonable. ~ 20 - 25 % more.

19" in tires are double the price of 18's, if not more, plus the ease in which you can damage a wheel is nuts. I really WANT 18's as a compromise of all of these factors - cost, durability, replacement cost etc. I'm sure I'll be able to recover something from my current wheels, but right now I just don't want to drop another 2k on wheels / tires. Anyone got a stock set laying around??

George

 

Bull Pooo....

Same wheel size as you and I'm always fighting vibration issues.....

These cars were designed by Jaguar to handle wheels up to 19".

The XF and new XJ are set up for 20"..

It's wheel and tire set up that is most important and these cars are very sensitive to how they are set up.

 

I feel your pain.... Remember, the BMW is a different beast. They seem to handle tire stuff much better than our Jags or my previous Hondas. My cousins (brothers) both have BMW's and they hardly ever have vibration issues. My last one was cleaned up with an alignment and road force balance. The shop did say if it started to come back they were going to balance the wheels on the car and forgo the road force. I couldn't believe I found a shop in little ol' Akron that had the ability to do either...

Ooops, forgot something. Here is a little test we came up with a while back to check rotors.. Find a straight stretch of road where you can get the car to do it's vibration thing... Take it up to a slower speed with no vibration. Maintain speed. Using the other foot, very gently start to apply the brakes. See if you start to feel the same vibration. Then, take it up to the road speed where you feel it and do the same thing. See if it changes, gets worse, better, or stays the same. Obviously, if it stays the same you can rule out the brakes but if that creates changes in what you feel, start looking at the rotors or wheel hub bearings. I haven't had to take it that far yet with the Jag but it has solved issues for me in the past. Just remember, don't do this during rush hour on Rt1.

Oh and for the Coventry Wheels.....

Here ya go...

 

Jeff,

Thanks for the pics.. I assume that those are 17". I'm kind of torn about the look. Looks almost like they were designed for the XJ, but happen to fit on the S-type.

Now I have to disagree with you on one point. I don't believe for a second that these cars (which debuted in 1999 in Europe ) were designed with a 19" Wheel in mind.

I think Jaguar reacted to market trends over the 9 year span the car was offered by offering up bigger wheels as the trends changed. Read the original Motoring Magazine reviews describing the v8's 17" wheels as massive... Don't forget this is at a time where c5 Corvettes came with 16" wheels standard.

I think the biggest thing here is probably wheel to hub play, followed by an increase in unsprung weight. I'm still not sold on the idea of hubcentric rings. I am definitely going to get the aluminum ones, and replace these polycarbonate ones, and see if that changes things. I'm also going to take some sandpaper and or a wire brush to the hubs and make sure to get the mating surfaces good and clean.

On one hand, the hubcentric ring simply increases the diameter of the hub so that the wheel bore sits on the hub, BUT I can't believe that those rings don't flex a LITTLE bit. Even the aluminum ones do. In this instance we are dealing with a 73mm wheel bore, onto a 64.1 mm hub bore. So 9mm of hub centering ring. AS that happens more of the stress is placed on the lugs, plus unless the wheels are torqued perfectly, and I mean perfectly, any flex, or deformation of the hub ring will lead to a wheel mounted slightly off center. at 2000 or so rpm. That can lead to a perceptible oscillation when the car is on the road. The Jag wheels have the native advantage of being hubcentric to the car, which is REALLY making me lean towards them. Like I said the one hubcentric ring was loose, and not attached to the wheel. I think I'm going to replace them with aluminum - it's only $17 from discount tire direct, and if that's the case, properly seat the wheel, and see what happens with the shakes. If I can get it to smooth out, then it's off to find a proper sized 19" tire for the car. And the rims will see another day. I STILL need to find at least a stock set of some sort, (even if I just replace a stock wheel that was damaged), but I'm thinking about 17 or preferably 18" stock jag wheels as a proper all season replacement.

Supposedly the road force balancer also measures rim runout (as per the hunter specs) and talking to the tire tech that mounted these tires (who also offered to re road force them free) there was no issue with my wheels, although I'm not so sure I 100% believe him.

These 19" were fine when I first got them, but never drove completely 100% smooth. You could always tell the car had wheels on it, compared to the stock 16's. But nothing like this, mostly a rougher, slightly harsher and noisier ride.

Anyone have a stock set of wheels or OEM Jag wheels for sale??

George

 

I probably should have clarified my post.....

The S Type got a suspension redesign as part of the 03 updates. That is also the year that the R was introduced. I actually meant that "our" post 03 cars were designed to accommodate larger wheels with lower profile tires. Other than some tuning changes, the suspension components are the same from the base to the R.

I know you've been messing with this and I understand your frustration. Vibration is a pet peeve of mine and I have spent many hours working on keeping my various rides smooth. I honestly think the issue is tires. But I also understand the hesitation not to spend a ton of money on new tires. Directional tires can create what is called a "harmonic" vibration. That was something I hadn't heard of until I visited the shop that did my alignment. What they said made sense to me. I get a harmonic vibration from my drilled rotors under heavy braking. It's like the buzzing of a fan. The "new" tires you got came off of another car, with different suspension settings. For the same reason you never put old pads on new rotors, one tires are "worn" in to a vehicle, placing them on another can also create vibrations. So, I would take the tire plunge. I would also agree that finding a set of 18's that are all year wouldn't be a bad idea for budget reasons. Just remember, all season tires are simply a compromise. They won't be the best in wet and dry conditions. They also won't be the best in winter. If I had the budget, I would have a set of non directional summer performance tires and a set of winter tires. I have done that in the past and was very happy with the results. I just don't have the money with the baby and all....

 

I partly agree with you as far as the tires are concerned, in that NEW tires would probably be the best best as far as reducing vibration, but I've never had a problem swapping tires across cars before. Personally I think it's either wheel related (and no one has found it yet, despite being on the GSP9700) or the mounting of the wheels to the car.

I can get a set of 18" wheels AND tires for the price of brand new decent brand 19" tires, which would be going on wheels we're not sure are 100%. And that is what I plan on doing..

In the meantime I'm going to try the new hub centering rings. If i can get these wheels not vibrating, or if I can prove that they aren't compromised - Maybe I will spring for new 19" tires. I have to admit they do look sexy...


George

 

Jeff,

Why did you "bull poo" my comment? It was purely my financial opinion, not my technical opinion. Are you disputing that our S-Type rides perfectly smooth because yours does not?

Sheesh, I guess I need to be a bit more specific in the future when referencing wheels and tires....

 

Ok fight nicely boys This isn't a honda forum lol.

 

Hey, I'm not fighting at all. Just looking for some clarification on why my opinion deserved a "bull poo"....

Jeff and I have our differences of opinion on several different topics (using a garden hose to clean the engine bay on these cars probably being the most widely-discussed one), but he's never "bull pooed" me before!!

 

OK, I wasn't fighting either. I know Jon, that you really hate "big rim" applications and basically say they are a waste of money..How does that solve any of George's issues. I used poo instead of sh*t out of respect yet I knew it would get your attention. I defiantly didn't want to offend you. So, if I did, please accept my apology. I will, however continue to debate you on the benefits of wheel and tire upgrades.

I'll post this on other threads as well..... Jon, I have a new bullet for your gun. In speaking with my dealer regarding the seeping line and when do we upgrade it to a leak. He did say "not to go so **** and start washing everything. You may get water in the electronics and that is not a good thing." I was like, Mike you said it was OK. All he said was, yea but now I know you.....So, consider the garden hose retired. I'm sure I will need to enter a 12 step program at the first spring cleaning, but I will resist.....

Now George..... was the Honda comment a dig????? I actually liked my little ricers a lot when I had them.. But I did stay off of the Honda forums since "my wheels weren't big enough"...

Ok, back to the topic...George, fix the darn thing already....

 

Lol.. I used to have a Honda too. 94 Accord, done tastefully... imho. but we both know the goings on in the honda fourms lol...

I'm waiting for aluminum hub rings in the mail... In the meantime I'm on the phone with my friend talking about pressure washing his LT1 and then soaking it in armor all.

LOL...

George

 

No offense taken, Jeff. My skin's mighty thick. I actually can't remember the last time anything really offended me. Forcing me to watch Rick mow his lawn might qualify, though....

I realize that my comment doesn't help George in his predicament. He's already thousands of dollars in. It was intended for anyone else out there who may be considering dropping a load of cash on big rims and tires that just may not work out on these quirky S-Types. That is a terribly expensive way to find out when your existing wheels and tires are doing just fine....

So keep touting the move to big wheels and tires. I'll just keep advising folks to stick with what they know works and don't risk throwing a ton of money away. I think that's plenty fair on both sides....

I think your car will be better off in the long run with you no longer spraying a garden hose all over the engine bay. Some silicone spray on old rags or towels can do nearly as good a job. Just takes a lot more elbow grease and a bit more time as well. Try it. I think you'll easily adapt....

 

Sad thing is..... The LT1 would probably take it fine.......