376 RWHP? This seems like a very low number. WTF? A gain of 15HP or thereabouts?

 

Ttwotees, maybe you could pm Avos and Brutal to make sure the come to this thread.Staatsof, you could try this one. Not cheap, but the nicest I've seen so far.

 

A good STR should be able to pull about 330-340 whp in good conditions and even your best run now of 318.5 whp could be normal pending he conditions. I have no idea who is spreading the idea that you can get 70 whp more with the snakebite to get to 400 whp, but this is an increase in hp that you must forget with the eaton, trust me. You can try to chase this, but it will end up with lots of wasted money and a disappointment in the end (Been there done that).
Below is a Dyno example of mine when I played with the stock Eaton and a larger lower pulley (to about 16 PSI or so). The red one was with stock pulleys (310 rwhp), and the blue line was with a larger lower pulley (314 rwhp). The RPM scale should actually be in time in the dyno slip.

You can clearly see that the only gains are in the lower rpm range, and there you even might get 25 or 30 more horses. But top end it doesn't give you more, and only stresses your engine more to drive the Eaton.

This dyno does not only show how my car didn't get any (significant) extra top end hp, but it also shows how over time the heat soak does its work. The dyno started in 2nd gear, and in 4th it just collapses with the larger lower pulley.

Back then (2005 or so) I trusted resellers that claimed you should get more HP, but no one actually had creditable dyno tests that could prove it which I found out later. People got only more gains by doing much more than just spinning the eaton fast.

Here’s my dyno experience (have done several by the way with the eaton and know about dyno operation…)


There seem to be others that also have speed up the blower/ported (or snakebite), and it would be very helpful if they could show their dynos, that can give you some reference as you miss the base run now.

To be honest if you want to get to the bottom of it, a base dyno with a stock supercharger would still be in order, so this is something that imo you should at least consider carefully.

I can help a little bit from remote, but you need to have an OBDII reader with which you can also record signals, so best a PC based version. These are not expensive and should be (IMHO) default base equipment anyhow (can highly recommend the Autoenginuity one, you can also sell that one easy later, so this will keep the cost down). I can PM you then what I would like to see and advice how to best record, and give you my analysis.

Also getting the boost pressure is essential here too, so better buy/loan one is you might need to measure a couple of times.

Please don’t do any ECU tuning now, first get to understand the condition of the car as it is now, and get into a comfort zone that what it delivers is also as expected. Only then you should consider going further.

The A/F ratios for the green line are pretty good already, could even be to lean for the high boost/temps. Please don’t forget the excessive heat the blower is now generating, and the porting doesn’t magically reduce this, only marginally.

As long as we don’t have a good understanding of the condition of your car now, I can’t make any further comments, and as mentioned I am more than happy to try to support.

 

It looks nicely constructed but it seems woefully small? When I bypassed mine completely on my twin turbo race car and stuffed the hose into a clear plastic soda bottle with rags at the top for filtered venting boy did I get an education about what's coming out of there. You still need to scavenge the crankcase so this is an on going project for me. I think something with a LOT of complex baffling of a reasonably good sized area and even a removable washable filter is needed. It should help but eventually the intercoolers will get plated with oil.

So how do we go about cleaning them without a horrific amound of work?

Thanks very much for the link but now let's get back to the main topic of this thread OK? You can start another thread if you'd like?

Bob S.

 

ttwotees, you'll probably see a gain of 50+ hp when you compliment the "Snake Bite" with a free flowing exhaust and an ECU tune.

 

Again, I'm asking for some advice here. I'm asking you if you had to retard your timing
and who did you get to re-tune your ECU. When you ran your Dyno, did you run it up
in 4th gear ? I'm looking for some specifics please. Anyone ? Avos, Brutal, others ?
I'm willing to post all of the experience I have and get, but I need a little help along
the way. Takers ? I know we have to be getting more than 320-340 RWHP because
the gearing was changed in the nose to replicate a smaller blower pulley. According
to Bob S. it should be exhibiting 50% more boost. I'd like to get my information from
experienced Jaguar, and in particular STR owners please ? but I'll take what I can get

 

ttwotees, I haven't performed a blower mod...yet. Aside from the dyno run, how does the car run with the "Snake Bite" vs stock? I'm asking this because it may be that your blower install has issues. How's the water temperature? The coolant lines have to be purged of air following a blower or thermostat install. How's the intercooler cooling circuit? Is it full of water not air? What is the boost pressure? It should be anywhere in the 15 to 16 lb range with a re-gear. Do you have a new fuel filter? I found recently mine was clogged. After a new one was installed she was a new car. My son needs to borrow my laptop. I'll be back...sounds like Arnold.

 

I see you were on a dyna pac and isnt that a dyno to bolt to the axle with the wheels removed? These also rate (mathmaticlly) power at the crank. Without a base run by the same dyno operator on the same equipment with relativly the same conditions, Those numbers dont meen alot and you cannot compare to other dyno runs from other cars.
Avos says as I have, and you see on the run. The Eaton has great mid range power where most of your street time is spent. But drift down as rpm come up higher. This is why IM looking to a compound turbo/blower set up down the road or just taking off the Eaton and Installing a twin screw (for me a Whipple works best, But Avos has already shown a Ken Bell Twin Screw works best on the Jaguar setup)
The road youre on is a long one to much higher power, You are gonna need to baseline(you didnt before, So you have nothing to base the change on YOUR car) The road to victory is paved with many 5-10hp improvements. Its hard to quantify a 50-75hp improvement with 1 or 2 mods And in whats avail on the factory setup youre not gonna see that. If you really got 15-25hp from a true BEFORE setup I would be really happy. And I also think the bigger benefit, especially with an Eaton is more in the midrange.

 

Avos; I don't know how I could give you a base Dyno test with a stock supercharger
without buying a stock blower and replacing my ported/geared one. I don't have the
financial means to do that. My STR is in very good shape with 48K miles and ran
exceptionally well prior to the coolant hose leak, requiring the blower removal.
Perhaps someone else who has a stock blower dyno test could offer their data ?
I tend to think something was wrong when we performed the test and I'd like to know
specifics of what preparation others have taken prior to dyno tesing.

I also mentioned that I have a check engine light on after the blower mods. I used
my DTC code checker and found "0" codes.

Is the Jag approximately 1:1 in 4th gear ? That's where the dyno operator thought
we should run the test. I had him disable the Dynamic Traction controller to try to
keep it in 4th, but he thought it was still trying to shift into higher gear.

I'm wondering if we did something wrong prior to the test becasue I don't believe
the power/torque readouts are correct.

I do appreciate your comments and I solicit further review of setup.

 

@ Bfsgross

The cooling system, I believe is full of coolant. I used the JTIS procedure to fill it again. No, I haven't installed a new fuel filter. Actually, I don't even know where it
is at this point, but also haven't looked at my JTIS for it. I plan on buying a boost
gauge so I can check the boost. As I said in the article the Dyno guy's vacuum
sensor was out, so I was disappointed that he could not check the boost.

I will do a Dynojet pull after I iron out some of the other problems. So far I'm not
getting any specific recommendations to try, such as retard the timing "x" degrees
or other suggestions. I will let you know how the power is later as I have not really
had a chance to take it out. Mother-in-laws birthday was this weekend and I had
to keep peace at home. :-)

 

Do you have the capability to adjust your timing?
Do you have a wideband air/fuel gauge?
Did you pull the spark plugs after each dyno pull?
Do you have Intake Air Temperature data or anything else that would be helpful in tuning your setup over the internet?

 

If you can’t go back to the original situation, you do need to check everything as thoroughly as possible by checking sensors as mentioned, and then also assume that your baseline is about 330-340 whp.
Then as mentioned I can only help if you have the ability to record at least some standard OBDII sensors, only that can help (imho) to understand if everything is behaving as expected and come in a comfort zone, and you can focus on improvements instead of trying to figure out if there is a problem or not.

Please note that we don’t know if there is a problem, all might be normal expected behavior as is, you know my experiences by now.
I’ll take it your car feels power wise much better now than before, but only top end power hasn’t increased.

A dynojet pull would be easier for comparisons but all dyno readings must be taken as about figures, not exact.
Take your time for a dyno pull, and let the car cool down (let it run on the dyno so the car FAN wil run which will cool down the intercooler circuit), and of course ensure the obvious is ok (i.e. clean airlifter, preferably a K&N panel one…). 4th is indeed closest to the 1:1 ratio. In the dyno I showed earlier you see 2nd. 3rd and 4th gear, but by that time there was just too much heat generated so power collapsed, as my car does give the best dyno readings in 4th gear.

Please take also note of Brutals comments; this is a journey with ups and downs (not a quick fix thing), especially if you are set for a certain improvement which hasn’t shown.
Never do too many things at once (this is what I usually do, and always regret again, and again ;-), and do not try to solve (in what you might think is a problem) something by changing anything else.
So leave the ECU alone, and only think about changing something here if you have reached an end state that you want to fine tune, and you are not there now.
The ECU takes the extra heat produced into consideration, and will retard the ignition timing. This is of course 1 of the sensors I would like to see recorded under different conditions. As soon as you are able to make good recordings pm me and I can let you know what I would need to see.

PM me when you are ready to record sensors so I can help you as mentioned.

 

Fuel filter is behind LH (USA driver) side wheel arch (USA well) liner. Very easy to change. Someone did a write-up but you won't need it at your level of expertise.

 

ttwotees, you now have the best guys (Avos, Brutal, and JagV8, etc. with ya. As Avos mentioned, one step at a time. Let me know if the fuel filter was replaced, if it wasn't changed, let me know if you feel it was the original fuel filter fitted at the factory. It will be a MotorCraft unit. As JagV8 mentioned, you remove the drivers side wheeel, remove the plugs that hold on the wheel well skirt that are just aft of the wheel, no need to remove them all. Peel back the inner wheel well skirt and here you will see the fuel filter bolted to the chassis. Again, check the intercooler cooling circuit (also check engine cooling circuit too). Air not purged out will leave you with a heat soak condition causing the ECU to pull back spark, etc.

 

yes diasable traction control and even then if it detects wheel slippage it will still pull power through retard ignition, and closing throttlebody(major reason its fly by wire) also most dyno pull ive done and seen are in 3rd. And if the operator tries to go all the way to redline the ecu/tcm will upshift regardless. So the pull should be smooth application in 3rd(actually talking to my dyno guy he likes to select a gear that gives about 3k rpm @40mph so as to not overspeed the dyno or induce wheel spin) till rpm are in a pull range like 3k. Then stab the pedal and shut off before upshift or redline. Even if it does it really doesnt matter cause your gonna see the upshift on most cars regardless. It just depends on the car and the softwared thats programmed in. Some cars hold the gear and will bounce off the rev limiter all day, others will upshift.
Even with traction off if the abs sees slipage the ecu will still intervene. But it is adapatable and learns. I have several customers with r's that i can tell there gas pedal is either at idle or on the carpet as the traction control intervention is almost nonexistant even when its not switched off..(you can also tell by the bald rear tires and like new fronts )

 

Interesting as so far I have not have the issues you mention regarding a dyno pull. 4th gear will give the most power, for my car a pull in 3rd would be at leat 3 or 5 % lower then in 4th.

We didn't have the issues you mentioned on the STR we dynoed, we just put the Jgate in 4th, and only full trhottle from about 4000 rpm (otherwise it will downshift), then it will get to the max rpm and the ECU will cut off harsh via stopping the ignition. This was a 1 drum per wheel system with eddy current to also give a load to mimik more real wheel resistance, and this one was also capable of high speeds.

Some dynos are better of in 3rd, like the small twin-drum (dynodynamics) per wheel, as 4th would give more drag on these small drums.

 

^^^^ The dyno I go on the most is a dyno dynamics 4 wheel drive 2000hp capable(AKA THE HEART BREAKER cause numbers are always lower, but funny how the cars on these dynos with lower numbers beat cars with higher numbers on a Dynojet at the track) He said many cars he does are in fourth. but it depends on the trans and gearing. Mine just worked better in 3rd. But this all brings out the importance of sticking to 1 dyno, 1 operator, and doing before and afters sessions so you really know what you have to start and end with..without this info all this is REALLY skewed. While you can say I should be in a "range" that leaves alot of "range" for you to either pick up or loose power. So TT, go to the track(in this 100+ Texas heat) and start running baslines recording baro, temps etc and get a log book. There is really nothing more accurate than trap speeds, and knowing the effects on changes for atmospheric conditions to determining power increases or losses. dynos are only a tool and like computer software. different software gives different numbers. The best advise I can give now is use TODAYS baselines as you starting numbers and go from here. You dont have stock numbers before the blower so you cannot get accurate numbers only a range as Avos and I have said. Youll never know if you were at the bottom or top of that range or even in it..

 

I have the snakebite on my car. I haven't really thought about doing an ecu tune recently due to what Avos has said in the past about heat being the limiting factor with these motors. I think that with this mod, you probably would have to use alcohol injection to keep timing from being pulled. Surely a higher afr woud help the horsepower but the heat generated is probably killing you just as much.

Your dyno of 318 hp seems pretty low considering this upgrade is supposed to give us 3 more lbs of boost to approx 16psi.

I saw that you mentioned that you have a check engine light on after the swap. By chance have you come up with a code on that yet? I have a check engine light on after the swap for "both banks lean", but i am thinking it's a vaccum leak somewhere in the intake tract. The light come on and restricted performance comes on when I'm at super low throttle or decellerating.

 

qwiketz:
You should post how you like it and what improvements on the street it made? I have not sent my spare M112 off because of the uncertainty of results??
Thanks!
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Check engine lights, poor service and unconfirmed results. I am not liking what I am reading. Perhaps the Eurotoys route is a better one?