Still flummoxed on 3.0 lean 0171 and 0174 - RESOLVED
#21
ok, so I'm using the ELM 327, talking to ANY of my mobile devices with the Torque Pro app. This is the combo rhat is only showing 0171 and 0174 as PENDING. I also have an Actron pocket reader that does not do any real time, just codes and monitors, and that one is showing hard faults 0171 and 0174.
#22
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#23
ok, so I'm using the ELM 327, talking to ANY of my mobile devices with the Torque Pro app. This is the combo rhat is only showing 0171 and 0174 as PENDING. I also have an Actron pocket reader that does not do any real time, just codes and monitors, and that one is showing hard faults 0171 and 0174.
As the other tool shows the codes are not pending you can be sure it's the software used with the elm327 that is itself faulty. You can get other software to talk to the elm327
#24
I know, I can't help myself.....
Question for you. You stated you have been battling this P0171/0174 for years. Did you change your air filter years ago? If you have, did you purchase from a BIG box store? The reason why I ask is, BIG box store air filters do not fit correctly even though "they" state Jaguar S Types. If it is an incorrect filter, Bob's yer Uncle.
Question for you. You stated you have been battling this P0171/0174 for years. Did you change your air filter years ago? If you have, did you purchase from a BIG box store? The reason why I ask is, BIG box store air filters do not fit correctly even though "they" state Jaguar S Types. If it is an incorrect filter, Bob's yer Uncle.
#25
I know, I can't help myself.....
Question for you. You stated you have been battling this P0171/0174 for years. Did you change your air filter years ago? If you have, did you purchase from a BIG box store? The reason why I ask is, BIG box store air filters do not fit correctly even though "they" state Jaguar S Types. If it is an incorrect filter, Bob's yer Uncle.
Question for you. You stated you have been battling this P0171/0174 for years. Did you change your air filter years ago? If you have, did you purchase from a BIG box store? The reason why I ask is, BIG box store air filters do not fit correctly even though "they" state Jaguar S Types. If it is an incorrect filter, Bob's yer Uncle.
#26
Remember how I've said computers are really, really smart AND really, really stupid at the same time? If the fuel pressure sensor is wrong, the poor computer has no way to know. The computer calculates fuel delivery assuming a certain pressure at the injectors. If the actual pressure is low, despite what the electronic sensor says, you get less total fuel delivered. This gets wrongly interpreted as a vacuum leak, because it matches those symptoms.
I'd suggest looking into how the factory intended for fuel pressure to be physically checked. There may be some special adapter that tees in place of the pressure sensor, or something like that.
Or if that is not practical, perhaps you can check the calibration of the sensor. Disconnect it from the fuel rail and cap that line so pressurized fuel won't spray out. Then rig up a test fitting to the sensor and apply compressed air at a certain pressure. Whatever pressure is applied, turn on the ignition (don't think you'd have to start the engine) and see what your scanner shows. It should match the pressure of the compressed air. If not, the sensor is bad.
#27
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kr98664 (03-28-2018)
#28
Here's one source for the adapter:
https://jaguar.service-solutions.com..._Valve_Adapter
They're not giving them away, but maybe you could fabricate something similar or find another source online. Remember, per my previous message, I think you can test the sensor independently with compressed air.
Not sure if you've seen this, but look at page 1407 in the Service Manual, courtesy of Gus:
http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto...M-Workshop.pdf
Note the big shopping list of possible causes that can flag P0171 and/or P0174. I believe the ones listed at the top are more likely. This falls under my theory of computers being really, really smart AND really, really dumb, all at the same time:
- Air intake leak between mass air flow (MAF) sensor and cylinder head
- Fuel filter/system restriction
- Fuel injector restriction
- Fuel rail pressure (FRP) sensor fault (low fuel pressure)
- Low fuel pump output
- HO2S/catalyst monitor sensor harness wiring condition fault
- EFT sensor fault (low fuel temperature)
- Mass air flow (MAF) sensor fault (low intake air flow)
- Exhaust leak (before catalyst)
- ECM receiving incorrect signal from one or more of the following sensors: ECT, MAF*, IAT, fuel rail temperature
Note how after a possible air leak in the intake duct (between MAF sensor and intake manifold), the next several likely culprits are all related to low fuel pressure. So if those possible faults are listed in order of likelihood, I think confirmation of actual fuel pressure is warranted.
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NBCat (03-28-2018)
#29
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#30
#31
A while back you posted a pic of the evap canister thingy with the whole bracket and assembly and i believe it is about $99. If you could share that pic again or what it is called and where to buy, I am tempted to try that.
or...youmay have another solution???
#32
A friend of mine recently purchased an 05, 3.0 S Type. He and I chased the P0171 and P0174 for a month. We replaced plugs, plenum/lower intake gaskets, new Denso MAF, fuel filter. We "sealed all" the canister. Just by accident, I ran my hand under the resonator on the intake tube. I found that it had disintgrated in several spots underneath allowing more unmetered air into engine. Also the round tube that the resonator attachs to the intake was cracked, again allowing more unmetered air into engine.
I would pull intakw tube with resonator off and have a good looksie at it!
Last edited by joycesjag; 07-24-2018 at 06:39 AM.
#33
Rick,
Haven't heard from you in several weeks now so I assume the new plastic resonator and associated tubing indeed fixed Todd's car. No more P0171/P0174 issues since?
I hate the Jaguar engine bay plastic. I have had to replace several plastic components in Jan's 2006 XK8 engine bay during the past year or so and I am dealing with more of it right now (awaiting the new part from rockauto.com which should show up on Thursday). Long-time owners eventually learn to inspect all plastics under the hood on a regular basis. Sooner or later you will have to replace most of those components....
Haven't heard from you in several weeks now so I assume the new plastic resonator and associated tubing indeed fixed Todd's car. No more P0171/P0174 issues since?
I hate the Jaguar engine bay plastic. I have had to replace several plastic components in Jan's 2006 XK8 engine bay during the past year or so and I am dealing with more of it right now (awaiting the new part from rockauto.com which should show up on Thursday). Long-time owners eventually learn to inspect all plastics under the hood on a regular basis. Sooner or later you will have to replace most of those components....
Last edited by Jon89; 07-24-2018 at 08:30 AM.
#34
Yes Jon a new resonator/intake took care of the lean codes. Maggie and Karen just returned from a 1000 mile round trip, zero problems!
Used resonator/intake tube $20.00 local auto recycler
Oddly enough even with those holes the codes popped up randomly. Sometimes they would clear themselves and other times I had to use my OBDII.
Used resonator/intake tube $20.00 local auto recycler
Oddly enough even with those holes the codes popped up randomly. Sometimes they would clear themselves and other times I had to use my OBDII.
Last edited by joycesjag; 07-25-2018 at 12:04 AM.
#35
thanks....I will check that out for sure. I hope that I find something....I will admit to this.....on mine, the hole where the crankcase tube connects from passenger side valve cover is just jammed in there. There is no fitting per se. Not sure if that is correct or if I could have a tiny leak there but it feels pretty snug
A friend of mine recently purchased an 05, 3.0 S Type. He and I chased the P0171 and P0174 for a month. We replaced plugs, plenum/lower intake gaskets, new Denso MAF, fuel filter. We "sealed all" the canister. Just by accident, I ran my hand under the resonator on the intake tube. I found that it had disintgrated in several spots underneath allowing more unmetered air into engine. Also the round tube that the resonator attachs to the intake was cracked, again allowing more unmetered air into engine.
I would pull intakw tube with resonator off and have a good looksie at it!
#36
Eureka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mine has a whopper of a hole in it. I will replace that and cross fingers. If this is the cure, with everything I've done to it, which is pretty much everything you did to your friend's car plus a little more, I should be good for another 10 years. And I am very grateful to you !!!! Crossing fingers.
#37
Holy cow! All this ongoing anguish and that got overlooked? Over two years ago your alleged mechanic did a smoke test and found nothing:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...7/#post1438155
I would suggest putting several bars of soap in a tube sock and beating the daylights out of him. At least that's how we dealt with problems like that when I was in prison. Or maybe it was in a movie, I can't remember...
Also, is that resonator thingie rubbing against something? It's curious how yours failed exactly like the one for Joycesjag.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...7/#post1438155
I would suggest putting several bars of soap in a tube sock and beating the daylights out of him. At least that's how we dealt with problems like that when I was in prison. Or maybe it was in a movie, I can't remember...
Also, is that resonator thingie rubbing against something? It's curious how yours failed exactly like the one for Joycesjag.
#38
No rubbing, like Jon stated, inferior plastics that has disintgrated over the years.
Jakesdad cut the resonator off. Cover the 2 holes with duct tape or something else(?) until you find a replacement intake tube. The resonator is there only for sound depression from my understanding. Only the V6 engines use it. The 4.0 and 4.2 do not.
BOOM! This thread is worth a million bucks!
Jakesdad cut the resonator off. Cover the 2 holes with duct tape or something else(?) until you find a replacement intake tube. The resonator is there only for sound depression from my understanding. Only the V6 engines use it. The 4.0 and 4.2 do not.
BOOM! This thread is worth a million bucks!
#39
I guess you could also duct tape the resonator as well until you find a replacement. Todd spent $20.00 at our local salvage yard.
Karl, from my understanding. A smoke test is hooked into the emissions purge control cannister. I don't believe the smoke would make it's way to the resonator, at least in my little world.
Karl, from my understanding. A smoke test is hooked into the emissions purge control cannister. I don't believe the smoke would make it's way to the resonator, at least in my little world.
#40
No rubbing, like Jon stated, inferior plastics that has disintgrated over the years.
Jakesdad cut the resonator off. Cover the 2 holes with duct tape or something else(?) until you find a replacement intake tube. The resonator is there only for sound depression from my understanding. Only the V6 engines use it. The 4.0 and 4.2 do not.
BOOM! This thread is worth a million bucks!
Jakesdad cut the resonator off. Cover the 2 holes with duct tape or something else(?) until you find a replacement intake tube. The resonator is there only for sound depression from my understanding. Only the V6 engines use it. The 4.0 and 4.2 do not.
BOOM! This thread is worth a million bucks!
So I am hoping beyond hope that this huge hole is the cause of my problem. I would think it is a huge possibility since all of you have been advising me that any miniscule air leak can cause lean codes and this thing is a gaping hole downstream of the MAF.
I will duct tape the resonator today and report back to you results. (I may buy a large enough roll of duct tape to enclose the entire engine)