Hello, newbie here, I accept most people here are petrol heads. Being from an agricultural background diesel is my fuel/drug of choice. Are there many other diesel drivers here?

 

Try the UK forum.

 

Jag doesn't sell diesel powered cars in North America, where most of the posters here reside.

 

Do you think VW will still sell them?

 

Thanks Mikey I didn't know that.

JagV8 I probably will as well, but I think there is a lot of relevant information on here too. I think these cars share some of the same components as a ford thunderbird. It will be interesting to find out how much, if anything they have in common. I'm always willing to learn and hopefully contribute something useful too. I reckon as these cars get older it's the electrics that will give us the most problems.

 

It was the 2002-2005 Ford Thunderbird 'revival' a very short lived auto. More commonly people refer to the 1999-2006 Lincoln LS vehicle. All three share the same basic platform, co-developed between Jag and Ford in the mid-90s. Neither the Thunderbird nor the LS had diesel engines.

Common parts among them are surprisingly few and are not always more available or cheaper.

 

The diesel is enormously different, not just the engine.

 

+1 to that, JagV8 . . .
Huge differences in engine, fuel & exhaust systems, instrumentation and thus, fault codes. But all variants are covered in our manuals and diagnostics. Whereas, all the remainder of drivetrain, basic body components, steering, suspension, electrics, brakes, wheels etc are either identical or clearly differentiated. Generally, and especially post 2006, many components like brakes, wheels etc were spec'd with higher rating units to accommodate higher torque and potential performance. Check carefully!

But yes also to our OP, Mr5000, there are quite a few of us about. I note you live in the UK, so advice to check UK forum is sound advice, but . . . many of us, including your fellow UK diesel addicts, still prefer JaguarForums.com for its friendly, helpful and superb technical advice - albeit that the latter is light on in respect to diesel engines.

I can be a bit more definite as to the diesel markets. Beyond Jaguar's home market in the UK, diesel variants were sold extensively in both western and eastern Europe. Outside of those markets but only after 2006, when we gained access to premium diesel fuel, Australia and New Zealand received long awaited deliveries also. The 2006 V6 TTD S-Type was immediately pronounced "Car of the Year" here in Australia.

Putting aside the X-Type 4cylinder versions, both the XJ and the S-Type were available with the 2.7L V6 TTD, overwhelmingly upgraded in 2006, then later morphing into the 3.0L V6 TTD that accounts for high volumes of sales here in the XF.

Final advice, having noted in your profile you have the 2004 S-Type is in 3 parts (1) know your VIN# intimately, especially the final serial part, and quote this unambiguously whenever ordering parts; (2) put car & engine details in your sig; then (3) use search tools both here and in the diesel specific section to troll through the hundreds of threads related to diesels.

I don't make a song and dance here about diesels - but I have owned 3 previous S-Types including the R - and our runout Luxury model S-Type with 2.7L V6 TTD is the best of them all. No plugs, coils, misfires - but they also have specific weaknesses. I respect views to the contrary but, having owned over 30 Jaguars drawn from most of their models since the 50s, I have arrived at my S-Type verdict in much the same way that, IMHO, the later 4.2L V8 XJR is arguably the best Jaguar saloon ever made and the 4.2L V8 XK8/XKR is HUGELY a better car than the superb Series 1 E-Type!

Best wishes with yours.
Cheers,

Ken

 

Thanks Ken, just doing a quick reply now.
What do you mean by premium fuel, is it lower sulphur or water content?

our runout Luxury model S-Type with 2.7L V6 TTD is the best of them all. No plugs, coils, misfires - but they also have specific weaknesses.

Could you tell me some more about the weaknesses? I'm reading some bad points about injectors.

Finally do you mind me asking what part of Oz you are in, I'm in Ireland.

 

Ken, great to see you posting!

 

When I was looking for mine I also was thinking about a diesel, but in the end I went for a petrol because. The diesel model need the timing belts changed at 60000 or every ten years.

The biggest problem for me is that diesel can end up in the oil if the particle filtered blocked. This means that the car has to run on long journeys so that it gets hot enough to burn the particles.

Keep a close eye on the oil level if it goes up CHANGE It. and check the particle filter is not blocked. Or the engine can seize.

 

Good advice here Mr5000, but the TB change issue is not a huge drama and not enough to dissuade me as virtually all my driving is extra-urban . . . but do heed these warnings . . . the requirement to drive at least weekly at a brisk 80kph (50mph) is to help the DPF cleanout cycle. Although well past my exuberant E-Type years, I re-interpret this as a fast cruise at 110/120kph (say 70/75mph) and for 3 years, I have had no oil level or dilution or DPF problems. Not a town cruiser and a worry as my inheriting son lives in the big smoke.

Mr5000, you ask about "premium" diesel - and I can only speak for Orstraylya (ex convict settlement; down under; sometime cricketing champions which we flaunt now that Freddy Flintoff has retired; never mentioning Rugby Union which, even with retirement of Ritchie McGraw, remains NZ's pleasure to grind us all into the dirt!). Where were we?

Premium Diesel emerged here in about 2004/5 as a dramatically more refined derivative of "truck & tractor diesel fuel" which was characterized by belches of black fumes. By contrast, the new premium diesel fuels (low sulphur, but also low ash) were made for the modern high performance, often turbo-charged, new tech engines. Read up on many posts here about the radically re-designed Jaguar TTD engines of 2005+ especially in regard to injector technology - multi pulse and directional micro-spray patterns all controlled by ECM. The 2006/7 TTD Jag was built for these fuels, but earlier diesels should still benefit.

Daughter has me worried also - the XK8 is a rocket with many R refinements (but no s/c) and with her mother's lead foot and cheeky grin to boot! Constantly reminds me if her XK8 needs washing or waxing. Smart girl! I pay the bills; she blasts out the driveway!

Today, I blinked and after a few abortive attempts at XJR's I sealed a deal privately on an early S3 Jag XJ6 in unblemished Classic Red over brand new Oatmeal interior with wire wheels (original refurbed wheels and hub caps thrown in) - at 37yo and with 170Km (106,000miles), it smelt brand new. C'mon, you blokes, I can't save all these classics by myself! Doesn't mean XJR is dead . . . I am still lurking!

Ah, Mikey, me ole mate . . . what a joy to see our paddles in the water together, yet again. How can I lurk and loiter in the shrubbery while you stalwarts uphold the traditions of the marque. I see the efforts of so many fine Knights of the Realm like yerself and Jumpin Jack Flash (and a dozen more) and I think to myself . . . Myself . . . I knew these guys before they were celebrities . . . before they were rich and famous, they were jest poor Jagwarh owners like me . . . . penniless, brainless, but oh so enthusiastic . . . generous with their wine cellars and their advice, and let's face it . . . anybody that can be that friendly to a mad Aussie can't be too bad!!!

Mr5000, best advice? Just love your Jaguar. For reasons far too complex and probably in the realm of the pencil-sharpeners who don't understand and make Jaguars to the spirit of their proud heritage any more. Like many here, I am desperate to save and pass on to the next generation, examples of a Grand Touring, Sporting, Racing heritage that was unique, special, and worthy of supporting.

If all the above sounds a tad retro, I can't help it . . . I have, today, stepped into a 37yo *****-cat that reminded me what it's all about! If you have been infected as a result, well that's just great!

Cheers . . .
Ken

 

The main snags about the diesel are problems with turbos, EGR, trans cooler, high pressure fuel pump, and the big one is the DPF - buy an early car as they didn't have one. (There can also be injector problems but I don't think they're common.)

The UK forum has lots of details of each of the common faults unique to the diesel.

They cost more in many countries and the economics only really work for high annual mileage, say 12000+ miles here.

 

Yeah, John, I really do agree with you as a generality, I don't know the UK home scene well any more . . . therefore bow to your advice . . . but here in Oz, where premium diesel fuel is 10-20cents per litre cheaper than bog standard petrol . . . and up to 40cents per litre cheaper than premium 98 octane petrol and, let's face it, where we do mileages you guys faint over . . . the numbers do add up . . . in spades!

I well recall many visits to UK with AA Tour Atlas in hand where they waxed lyric over day tours of 30 miles! Or the quaint T-intersection sign in the Lakes District that pointed left to Keswick at 1and 1/4miles (I mean, why bother with the 1/4, I can see the town) . . . or turn right for a more pastoral route for 7miles. I have a mate living here in Cairns, who drives 2,000Km just to get to Brisbane, his Queensland capital. His wife's folks come from Copenhagen - a similar distance from the mid-Sahara in Africa! We held a JF meet last year on the coast and one of our keen members drove 2500-3000 just to attend. With 400,000Km on his immaculate Sov, he is considering an engine change . . . well, sometime!

I have a pic of that Lakes photo framed over an Australian scene which bears a signpost declaring "HS 350" . . . 350km to the nearest homestead! Horses for courses . . . if yours is a town tourer, forget the TTD. But if you have the luxury of extended motorway or country touring . . . places where the entire lineage of Jaguar Grand Touring Saloons and Sports were designed for . . . then the TTD shines, whether DPF or no!

Just my 2c . . . but from behind the wheel, not just theory . . . and certainly not looking to provoke argument. Perhaps ours is a different perspective for a different set of circumstances.

Cheers,

Ken.

 

Interesting post! I am a diesel fan having worked in the oil fields of alberta 90 % of the light duty trucks are diesel powered and I am used to the reliability and fuel mileage. Before the synthetic oils became popular these trucks and especially the larger one run 24-7 as most of the areas were to cold to start these engines after a 10-12 hr period of not running. As the years went on the diesel became more common in the light duty pick-up. We have traveled the uk and Europe and have saw many small cars with the diesel engines. Here the only car I knew had a diesel was the mercedes, vw golf but no common brands like chevrolet or Ford so they were not know as anything quick but rather fuel efficient.Latley I know of a few but they are slow to catch on here why I don't know I think they would make a great choice as diesel is 10-15 cents less a liter also.

Randy

 

The UK's a bit diesel mad (well, pre-VW - it may change / have changed) so there's a premium price for a diesel car. With the need to regen a DPF you simply must do big mileage here, avoid the DPF, or buy a petrol.

Petrol S-Types are shockingly cheap. With medium mileage per annum they're a steal.

 

Hi Randy,

Interesting . . . and I suspect that your mileages in Canada are more closely comparable to my country Australia, even though climate is vastly different.

I still think that JagV8 raises some very valid concerns. The Jaguar TTD that has evolved from 2.7L to 3.0L is not without some weaknesses, but shares a close affinity here with similar fitted to LR Discoveries and Ford Territory etc. It seems surprising therefore, that in Europe where typical travel distances are so small, where urbanization imposes justifiable emission regs, that diesels are so common . . . yet here in our broad, open, long distance country, these new, hi-tech examples like the Jaguar are increasingly dominating sales.

We appear to be playing catch-up, especially since prior to 2006, the only common examples here were trucks, buses, tractors . . . and somewhat equally agricultural VW Golfs! The times are a-changin' . . . and very rapidly!

Ken

 

Here it's because the harmful health hazards of NOx and PM from diesels were passed over (resulting in our cities having awful pollution).

For some reason that makes no sense our government has failed to legislate akin to the USA - whose laws have caught VW. We have much worse air quality, constantly shown to be due to diesel pollution, yet have failed to legislate adequately (as yet). Makes you wonder about brown envelopes...

 

Another reason that I did not buy a diesel here in Germany. Is the road tax for my 3.0 liter petrol I pay 200 € a year, but for a Diesel I would be paying over 400 €.

The German finance minister changes less tax on diesel, due to lobby from German car makers who said Diesel was better for the environment. That was before Volkswagen was caught. Most Germans still think that it is not a really bad thing that they did.

In Europe you can buy a nice petrol Jag for around 2000 € cheaper than the diesel cars. I got mine from Italy 2003 3.0 sport with only 12300 Km on the clock which was not rolled back (I checked with the Dealer that had serviced the car in Rome).

I would have to buy 10,000 liters of Petrol to get my money back for the extra that I would have paid for a diesel car.

I am also thinking about converting the car to lpg later (at the local tank station it only costs 44 cents a liter).

which would mean that she would cost less than a diesel to run anyway.