Hey, everyone.

When I bought my 05 S-type, the service department at the dealership it was being serviced at said that the transmission pan was leaking, but was driveable; I didn't notice much of a leak except for minor leak drips in one spot that ranged from half dollar to about two or three, depending on it sitting overnight, or over more time. For the most part, it was not leaking more than a few drops unless I was on an incline - and I thought nothing of it, as it seemed to be a very small amount.

I ordered the 6HP26 fluid change kit from thectsc.com (great packing job and excellent service, kudos to Klaus!) and yesterday, set to drop and drain, and change the mechatronic sleeve. Sleeve was changed, pan was installed with new T40 bolts, and left for the morning.

Today, I got busy with refilling. Following ZF's instructions, and the advice of so many helpful posts here, with the engine off, vehicle level (measured as level with the vehicle body) I slowly pumped in about 3.25L of fluid, at which point it began to leak out of the filler hole. I stopped, plugged it, and started the engine, and it was about 5 minutes, before I had the filler bolt open again, at which time there was no fluid leakage, and the temperature according to the pan was slowly climbing from 30 C.

At this point, I began to slowly pump fluid into the fill port and it just kept on taking it - I went through the remaining 3 liters, and kept watching the temperature, and as it approached 40 C, nothing began leaking out.
I measured the temperature of multiple points around the transmission, areas on the pan, the chassis, around the mechatronic socket, et cetera and excepting the areas closer to the torque converter, it held steadily around 30 C, as I began to shift through the gears. I should note that per Jaguar, the A/C was on and on low, and I had a scan tool attached showing me real-time information about sensors and such - hoping to find something that would indicate an answer.

This kind of frightens me, because that means that at maximum, there would have been 4 L left of fluid, out of a total of 10 L bare-bones with empty TC ?

The transmission was behaving just fine until the day before yesterday, when it began slipping a little between 2->3 and kickdown from 5->4, so it was serendipitous that I received my service kit that day as well - I was going to park it regardless to resolve issues with my RX-7 (which needs a new radiator)

Can anyone offer any insight, or maybe even a bit of hope that I may be A-OK ?

The drained fluid was terrifying in appearance, along the lines of something you would find in the import beers section at the liquor store - deep honey brown, and while there were no discarded chunks, the pan mags did take a pretty good washing to get the "sludge" off.

I have yet to take it down off the jackstands, as I intend to do an oil change and some heavy degreasing before I do - this has been a helluvaweek with cars and I just need something to go right

Cheers, and happy motoring - hoping to hear from somebody

 

You ran it low. Then when you started the engine, the pump pushed the ATF into all the places that were not reached when you did the initial static fill .. torque converter, cooler, valve body, etc.

So, you are not full yet and need to continue filling after you obtain more ATF.

 

It can't be short by much, as the TC will not have emptied.

I'm a bit hazy about the process, got a mate's autobox on the brain. On his, you fill through one port but the fluid comes out another (I think it has some sort of vertical tube whose top is the correct level). You have to have both open, otherwise you'd add too much. Is the 6HP26 the same and is that how you're checking?

 

Well, I had a very long write up for you, but then it was lost. (dammit!)

Making it short, try adding one more liter/quart.

This is from the ZF 6HP26 service manual:

Oil level too low
This can result in:
Engine over-revving or no power flow in curves or when starting from a stop
Valve chatter due to air pockets in the oil
General malfunctions
Among other things, burned clutches can be the result.



Something to think about.
Total capacity of transmission is 9.9 liters by word of ZF 6HP26 Parts Manual.
It takes 3.25 Liters to fill pan to overflow from fill hole as you stated.
The average amount of fluid added for a drain and fill is 7 liters.
By subtraction, the torque converter holds about 3 liters.

So, torque converter volume + pan volume + valvebody, clutches, etc volume = 10
valvebody, clutches, etc volume = 3.75 liters.

So, when you drained only 3.5 liters, you were more than .25 liters short of keeping the valvebody, clutches, etc happy. Hence your driving problems.

So, you put 6 liters in. Plus the 3 liters in the torque converter makes 9 liters. Just add another liter according to the procedures.


Note: The fluid is brown when new. Its when its black or it smells burned that there is a problem.

 

Plums, heima, thank you very much for your insight - Transmissions for me are the last frontier; how they work eludes me for the most part.

I will get some more atf and fill it, and it should all be good - there were no nasty noises, or codes thrown, or MIL lit, so I assume all is well just low on fluid.

Thanks - cheers, and happy motoring !

 

Good info on how they work is on howstuffworks.com

 

Others have pretty much summed it up for you. You were filling it correctly. When you reach temperature and get it filled to the fill hole, you are good.

An important note for future users.... Anytime you see a drip of fluid from a seeping transmission realize that it is probably leaking at a rate of 10x what you see while the car is driving down the road. This is the reason you were low despite a "very slight" leak. This normally holds true for most engine oil leaks as well. VERY important to fix leaks ASAP when they are discovered.

Other than that, it sounds like you caught yours just in time. Be glad you have the very tough ZF HP26!

 

Jake,

Just curious about what tool you used to remove your ZF fill plug and how difficult it was to break loose. Most folks wind up using a homemade short 8mm hex key piece combined with a couple of 8mm box wrenches, and pound the wrenches with a big hammer until the fill plug finally breaks loose. I'm just looking for the best method when it comes time to do an ATF drain-and-fill on both our 2005 S-Type 3.0 (currently at 72,500 miles) and 2006 XK8 (currently at 51,500 miles)....

 

Jon,

I used a regular L-shaped 8mm hex key and a few good yanks to loosen it, and my fingers once it was broken loose. The space between the fill plug and the chassis is irritatingly just too small for a ratchet and hex key socket, I found. I strongly suggest if you have the ability, once you break it loose (try using a cheater bar on the key handle) that you use a hex key socket and a ratcheting wrench around it. One thing that I did notice is that I mistakenly had a 5/16 key the first time, and it wobbled a little, and changed to an actual 8mm key and it seemed to fit more snug... I know they're technically equivalent, but on the safe side, I'd suggest making sure you're using the correct 8mm key or socket.

I strongly suggest that you also order the replacement T40 bolts for the pan, as mine were fairly corroded and just like everyone says, somewhat difficult to get out. Thankfully I have an impact wrench that knocked them loose, and only stripped one out - otherwise this would have been a nightmare job had I just had a ratchet and socket.

All together from thectsc.com it was $241.95 for the kit, which was a new, actual ZF pan and six liters of LG6, plus $17 for the sealing sleeve, and $39 for the replacement T40 bolts - a significant savings over what I was facing from Jaguar, at $1400 to replace and service it.

Good luck, and the best advice I got for doing the job was take your time, and don't rush - that's how I stripped the last bolt

Cheers, and happy motoring !

 

I would like to say to anyone who happens across this thread that:

1) A drain and fill will only require 6 litres of ATF. If there is a leak prior to the drain and fill you may need the 7th litre. If you drain over night you will need possibly 8 litres.

2) The LifeGuard6 is very light goldish in color when new, for what its worth.

3) I would NOT recommend trying to use a 5/16 allen. The 2- ZF 6HP26 gearboxes that I have worked on, the fill bolt was super tight and I would be afraid of stripping out the 8mm. Because of the minimal space between the trans tunnel and gearbox you would be" up poops creek without a paddle".

Example of the new LifeGuard6 ATF:

 

The other (obvious) point is to break the fill plug loose before taking out the drain plug.

 

Absolutely!

 

Yep, that is indeed mandatory. If you drain your ATF before popping that fill plug loose and then run into problems while attempting to do so, you are hosed big-time....

 

I second joycesjag's exhortation of that point; the plug in mine was an absolute bear to break loose, and had I continued with the 5/16 key, I would most certainly have rounded off that plug, and there is no way that I can see to fix that problem, without dropping the transmission due to the location of the plug.

In other news though, I managed to get another 2 L of fluid today from Markus at Autohaus K&H in Midtown, and sure enough, warmed the car up, opened the plug, and pumped a little bit in, watched it heat up and then cycled between pump, check temp, and watch, until the stream of fluid trickling out was 40 C, then plugged it back up.

Only managed to take about another 1/2 - 3/4 L, and it runs smoothly and drives better than it did when I got it.

I have some pictures, and some video to edit, and I'll post those when I get the editing done.

Cheers, and happy motoring !

 

Well done, problem solved!!

 

Great job, Jake. And welcome aboard. Keep us posted on your maintenance efforts. Sharing tips and tricks amongst ourselves keeps all of our wallets a bit fuller....

 

For fill-plug removal: Use your cut-off wheel to whack the equivalent of a dime's dia. from the short end of your L-shaped allen wrench

 

A solution that I thought was pretty ingenious, was to insert a 8mm allen head socket into a 8mm box-end wrench, then insert whats exposed into the fill plug.

For when I will change the oil, I have thought to spray the screws and plug with WD40 the day before, and when I remove them, first give them a couple of taps with a hammer. This is done in hopes of breaking any rust/corrosion that might have formed.

Any comments on this preventative measure?

 

Tapping always helps.

You would be best to smear atf all over the plug threads and not overtighten. That should be sufficient to ensure that the next round is trouble free.