Hi,

I have just bought my first Jag, a 2003 S-Type Sport with the 6HP auto box. I bout it cheaply with problems hoping I could iron them out and have a real bargain.

The prior owner took it into a local Jag dealer for a problem he was having with a delay in take off in 1st gear, and a harsh shift between 1st & 2nd. The only thing that was physically done by the technician was a standing start in the car park and then a ODB code scan.The estimate states that fault codes P0730, P0731 & P0736 were stored, and that it needs a new transmission. total cost - $5933

Now I know from being in the auto trade for quite a few years, that dealers, especially in the US, will generally upsale to customers. I'm curious if this estimate I have is that very thing, or if it can be repaired for a lot less with some time and insight into the actual problem? The only things i've been able to dig up so far, is that the P0731 is 1st gear incorrect ratio & P0736 is Reverse gear incorrect ratio. I can't find anything on the P0730. I'm wondering if the ratio faults are a torque converter slip and can be fixed with a replacement. Maybe the oil is low? Just throwing ideas out, maybe i'm way off.

The car drives, but the display shows Transmission Fault, and the car is in Limp mode.

Worst case scenario is a replacement gearbox from a trusted source and fit it myself, but i would like to be able to fix the one i have if possible.

 

There's a TSB about P0736, something like "Harsh Shifts/MIL ON When in Reverse, DTC P0736", worth reading for ideas.

One possibility is low oil and with the possible cost you mention checking the oil sounds a no-brainer. Be sure to follow the procedure properly as oil temperature is critical.

The workshop manual is $10 on ebay. It includes detailed data on P0730 and the others.

You can find ZF manuals online if you search but they're not light reading. I think someone posted one here, search on:
troubleshooting
Or it may be
trouble shooting

When the fluid level's right I'd be tempted to get the TCM (tranny) & PCM reflashed in case what's really wrong is that they've got the old software or the autobox adaptions have drifted so badly they're flagging codes. Hope a tech comments as I'm pretty much guessing here.

 

I would not only check the level but I would change the filter/pan assembly and do a fluid change. Search for a guy named "CCC". He has posted a series of very detailed posts on where to get parts and be aware that the fluid you use is somewhat up in the air. So plan a good bit of reading on this forum. Searching will produce much more information than posting more questions.

Yes I sort of think you "might" have a failing torque converter. Not enough details yet so this is pretty much just a guess!! There are some posts on the forum about that too. Pretty expensive but cheaper than a transmission rebuild.

Also don't forget EBay has several good used ZF transmissions and it might be cheaper to just get a complete used unit for about $2500 or so.
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.
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The ZF transmission is used in a variety of cars such as BMW, Hyundi, Jaguar, Range Rover, Bentley, Ford, etc so I would expect that there should be quite a number of shops that can rebuild it or sell a remanufactured unit for less then the dealer. Furthermore, ZF sells rebuild kits that anyone can order from the ZF distributor so it seems like the hardware is the same for mutiple units. I think the only thing that is unique to the Jaguar is the firware that sits in the generic internal bosch electronic transmsision controller.

 

1st. thing to do with with a 6HP26 autobox showing ANY kind of problem is to change the fluid rightaway for something better, esp. if your car has done more than 50,000mile. Change the filter pan too (I think you get more old fluid out). There are umpteen contributions on this website about this, it's a constantly recurring theme. Then go for a drive and see if you need to spend six grand.
In case you're wondering, I've gone through all this myself...
Leedsman. (2006 S-type 2.7D, 120,000mile).

 

There are quite a few shops here in the USA that have the transmission flushing machines like the one from BG. Bring a tranny pan gasket and have them drop & clean that too. I think AAMCO uses their machine and products. It's worked great on the high mileage cars I have. Best to start early on though. It costs something like $150.

If one is still under warranty I wonder what Jag thinks about switching to a different fluid? I did see that they reccomend using Mobile 1 synthetic power steering fluid in their TSB for the steering rack.

Bob S.

 

Thanks guys. I have thought about doing a flush and refill with a new filter as soon as I got it, but with it being an expensive procedure, I thought I would wait to see if you guys thought the symptoms and trouble codes meant a new box was required regardless, in which case it's dead money.

Just been out and had a better look at it. It needs a sump gasket, it's leaking a fair bit, R/H mirror does not adjust & the doors will not unlock from the key fob.

I also discovered another thing with the transmission - It will not hold on an incline. It's fine in Park, but selecting any other gear while on a very mild gradient, it will roll back unless the throttle is pressed to go forwards.

Is there a sensor in the box that will indicate a low oil condition, or do you have to get underneath and check it manually? I would have thought a sealed box would have some alternative way of indicating oil level with the electronics that are in these cars. I'm just thinking it would cause all the problems this box has, and just seems too simple, especially as the dealer technician did not even get under the car and check himself.

Found a service manual on Ebay, so i'll get that ordered, as well as a Elm scan software, although i'm confused as to which one as there seems to be listings for different versions with quite a wide margin of pricing difference. Anyone know which one I need?

 

Unless you get a quite expensive OBD tool (AutoEnginuity) you can usually only read codes from the PCM so only those ZF codes sent to the PCM. You may as well get the cheapest elm327 (about $20).

If fluid's leaked, you could follow the fill mentioned in threads on here. You need to monitor the fluid temperature closely.

I think there may be a low level detect but it may be for catastrophic loss.

The "sealed" and "no dipstick" are both stupid but we're stuck with them

 

When you have "checked" the fluid one time (per cccs thread in the FAQ section), it is not as intimidating the second time around. The biggest and longest PIA is leveling the vehicle if you do not have access to a lift!

 

hmm, no lift

About how much vertical clearance would I need under the car to do the check? I can get an extra 6-7" fairly easily but that looks rather awkward!

 

When I pull our S-Type up on Rhino Ramps (my own set of two for the front wheels and my neighbor's set of two for the rear wheels), that puts the bottom of the tires at just over 10 inches off the ground, so the bottom of the transmission pan is probably about 20 inches off the ground. That gives me enough room to crawl under there and visually check the sleeve for leaks and tighten the two 8 mm shift cable attachment bolts with an open-ended wrench, but it does not provide enough working room for me to be able to get my hands and tools up to unscrew the top fill plug to see if my ZF Fluid is filled to the brink. And I certainly don't have enough working room to perform a drain-and-fill of the ATF....

I think I would need to get the bottom of the tires a minimum of 18 inches off the ground in order to be able to do anything with the ATF. 24 inches would be even better. No way can I come close to this with the ramps. I agree with Rick - this is a job for a hydraulic lift. The problem is finding access to one....

 

Jon,

Exactly how do you get the car onto 4 ramps?
I've thought about this as I greatly prefer to have the car on ramps than jackstands (maybe it's psychological.. I dunno) I have one set of the 12,000lb rhino ramps (the grey ones). I would be more than willing to get another set...

Do you just drive up the front and then Jack the rear and stuff the ramps under the tires and let it down? Is there a spot where you can lift the entire rear in one shot?

Thanks in advance,

George

 

This sounds like a job for tomorrow, i'll need to make room in the garage as the driveway is on a slope. I have large Axle stands and a way of getting it up in the air. I don't have a temp probe though, just a Raytek point & shoot IR. I'm wondering what the difference will be between the actual oil temp and a IR pan reading? 5 deg? May be worth a run to the store to get one, or just steal our lasses meat thermometer from the kitchen when she's not looking


What's the consensus on generic oils to put back in? Not keen on Jag dealer pricing to be honest, although i do know you have to have a certain grade that is up to task.

 

The IR works great, when I did mine, we had used 2 of them, 1 pointed at the pan, 1 pointed at the fill hole. I used a cup to catch some of the over flow and used the 1 pointed at the fill hole to measure both temps. Between the 3 readings there was a +/- 1c. There is a "full" temperature window of 10c (between the low 40c and not over 50c).

I did purchase a meat probe and it was unexceptable, simply it wouldn't fit in the tight area. I even tried using tube bender to curve it abit but it did not work!

The most talk as far as replacement fluid goes is either Castrol Multi Import or Mobile 1 Syn both of which meets the ZF (Jags) shell spec. I choose to use the Castrol Multi Import.

 

Oh and 1 tip, measure the fluids temp in the jug before filling. The fluid I used was at 33c, which meant the warm up to 40c was quick about 2 minutes or so.

 

George,

It's a true Rube Goldberg effort to get the car up onto all four ramps. It takes both me and my neighbor quite a while to do it. I set the front two ramps into position, drive up the ramps a little more than halfway, then my neighbor stuffs the two rear ramps into position at the rear wheels when there is enough elevation and angle provided by the front ramps to do so. If you work it carefully, you can creep the car fully up onto all four ramps, but you cannot drive it back down without risking damage to the plastic lower body panel surrounds. Once you're done, you have to jack the rear wheels up far enough to get them off the rear ramps, then remove the rear ramps, then lower the rear wheels back to the ground, and then finally you can back the car off of the front ramps....

We've done this twice with the S-Type and probably three or four times with his 5-liter Mustang (which is easier because it has flatter lower body panels and a little more ground clearance). The first time we did the S-Type, it took us at least 15 minutes to figure it out. The second time (last Tuesday morning), we did it in about 5 minutes. We figured out that it is much easier when you use 1-inch thick pressure-treated wooden boards (that are 10 inches wide and about 2 feet long) as pre-ramps that are placed in front of the actual ramp runways. This gives the car some beginning elevation off the pavement before you get to the ramps and makes it easier to get onto the ramps and then begin creeping....

This is definitely a two-man job. No way can you do it by yourself. One has to inch the car forward on the front ramps (creep and brake, then try to place the rear ramps - creep and brake some more, then try to place the rear ramps again, etc.) while the other has to get the rear ramps properly positioned when there is enough angle and elevation to do so. To do it the absolute best way, you actually need three people - a driver, a ramp man at the left rear wheel, and a ramp man at the right rear wheel....

Hope this makes sense to you....

 

Rick,

How do you know that Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF meets the Shell M1375.4 specs? Is that stated on Mobil 1's website somewhere, or did you speak with a Mobil 1 customer service rep to confirm?

 

In one of the forum threads, an indy jag tech swears by the Mobile 1. He stated that he has used it in his personal Jag and his customers. Damn for the life of me I can't remember which tech. I will follow Johns (jagv8) advise and search for it, while I enjoy a cold bevie right now.

 

Rick, I know that several people have reported good results using Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. But I've never seen anyone claim that it meets the Shell M1375.4 specs. Maybe it indeed does. It would be comforting for those who have already gone with it (or intend to go with it when they drain-and-fill their ZF) to know....

No rush my friend, enjoy your beverage. In fact, the smell of Jan's homemade spaghetti sauce simmering on the stove all afternoon is wafting into my home office right now, so it won't be long before I shut this PC down for the evening and go help myself to an enjoyable dinner....

 

Jon, I found the tech and his words about the usage of Mobil 1 Syn ATF, it was stevetech. The problem is that he did not mention the Mobil 1 shell spec. Now in my research prior to replacing Joyces sleeve, I know I read somewhere that Mobil 1 Syn, Redline D-4, Castrol Multi Import, ESSO and a Texaco fluid shared the same shell specs. This is going to drive me nuts.