Ok fellows, I have not climbed under JoycesJag to look at the issue of line removal, athough there seem to be some good quick fixes that are working for "non"removal.

I have been thinking on the "lines" being more of a permanant fix. According to alldata:
-from VIN M45255
-Fluid Line Hose Kit, Jaguar Part # 2C2Z11605 $181.00 (US)
-Labor Time 1.2 hours. This seems low to me because of the "dropping" subframe, disconnect and reconnect lines and hangers, fill transmission to proper level. So lets call it "on our back-ers", 3 hours.

What I am getting to and most likely I will look into "if JoycesJag starts this dreaded leak".

First I would start off with factory replacement lines, more than likely I would return after I take them to a hydraulic hose company and inquiry about them making me a set using lengthy pieces (2 one for each line) of rubber hose inbetween the radiator and transmission connections. Basically use maybe the first 6" or so metal tube (at radiator) for that connection and the last 6" or so with the plate that mounts to the transmission. If they are able to do that, I would then go home jack her up and start hacking the failed line off, without going through the hassels of "dropping" the subframe, saving the 2- 6" pieces, hence making the removal and installation process a whole lot easier.

Am I typing out my caboose?

Again since I have NOT had this problem, I am just presenting my personal thoughts.

 

Sure sounds like an elegant and possibly permanent fix to me, Rick. But like you, I have not checked those lines myself. When I do the next scheduled oil & filter change with tire rotation after Jan returns from her upcoming trip to Tampa to visit her folks, I plan to find those lines and have a look and feel of them while I'm down there on my back with the belly pan removed....

I have to say that this is the potentially "leaky-ist" vehicle I've owned in more than 40 years of driving. IMT O-rings, oil pan gasket, ZF sleeve, coolant reservoir, transmission lines, and whatever else I may be missing. The short-route IMT O-rings and the coolant reservoir are fairly easy DIY procedures, but the other three are costly and time-consuming problems. As gorgeous as this car is and as well as it does the job that I purchased it to do (get Jan safely and comfortably back and forth to see her parents), I would not have bought it if my research had turned up all of these problems beforehand....

 

Just to check here Rick... You aren't thinking about reusing the old metal fittings, correct?

Just an FYI; those are actually what fail on the trans line. Either the metal seam or the mating point between the rubber and metal. So, if getting entirely new lines made that have the same ends, only more hose, that would in theory work..

Also, I wouldn't stress too much about it. Mine seep and have only produced one teeny drip on the belly pan. To be honest, It may not have even been them since that was a while ago and no other drip has appeared.

I've only heard of the one user on here that had a line get bad enough for it to need changed...

 

Jeff, given I typed my brain fart prior to looking at "our" lines, I don't know how long any of the metal parts are in the line. The metal couplers are how long from the radiator until they are swagged to the rubber, then how long is the rubber until they are swagged to the transmission mount(?).

Gathering from the almost 2 years of being a Jaguar owner and DIY'er, there seems to be common faults. Could this be a result of inferior out sourcing?

Basically what I am thinking in my little world is to replace the rubber hose, reswagging the 2 connection points but with longer rubber hose(s) that would be able to snake around whatever is restricting the passage of the metal portion of the lines, ie.. from radiator to tranny without having to drop the subframe. Is the metal portion of the lines making the whole process the hassle? I see where a such company would be able to dublicate the radiator connection, but the transmission mounting plate would be questionable, monetarily speaking. I would like to know what a dealer or indy would charge to replace with a OEM part, $500.00/600.00????

Stress, ha what stress, I changing "dirty diap diaps for a living what stress could I have . If Joyces were to ever start dripping her red lubby juice, I would grab a tube of "seal all" and try that first. If you guys have never heard of "seal all" look it up!



Amazing stuff!!!!!!

I have read that one as well, but I don't like a violated belly pan or driveway

 

Agreed Jon, "the other three" somewhat costly, as I look back about a benny in parts each it seems and a 1/2 day in the the garage AWAY from the wife and kiddies!!! Almost priceless anymore around here. <--did I really just type that.


Remember everyone, most forums "are about the problems" seldom do we read forums about everything positive!

We still enjoy our Jaguar still, just looking at her in our driveway, sipping sweet tea on the front porch, even though she has had her share of dripping lube juice!

 

I still enjoy ours as well - it's gorgeous and elegant to drive, and the mpg on Jan's long solo road trips is fantastic. But I still have difficulty reconciling the fact that there are so many known issues on these cars that can eventually result in expensive, time-consuming repairs. Using multiple inferior gaskets and seals at the factory on a car like this is inexcusable. My nearly 12-year-old Ram and Jan's nearly 7-year-old RX330 combined don't contain nearly the number of design flaws or inferior components that our S-Type does. The bottom line for me is that compared to the other two vehicles in our stable, I have to keep a fairly long list of potential problems to look for on a regular basis with the S-Type. My Ram and her RX330 just keep plugging away with minimal routine maintenance. I expected a bit more attention required by the Jaguar when I bought it, but not to the extent that reality has proven....

My maintenance fund built up for the car as a result of last year's diminished value lawsuit victory certainly helps. I've got a long way to go before I decide that the plusses of our S-Type no longer outweigh the minuses. As always, time will tell....

 

This gasket / seal / crappy plastic (expansion tanks) issue seems moreso a problem with the OEM parts vendors they selected. BMW has the same problems, especially with electrical components (Think multiple displays failing), as well as SOME of the older suspension stuff. BMW was willing to do a lot of goodwill warranty work for people, don't know if Jaguar will admit or even help with the fact that basically any Jaguar v6 2.5 or 3.0 will eventually leak from the oil pan (my late x-type did it, my S does). AND the X-type is an 18 hr job because of the transverse mounted motor.

My S-type has been relegated to year round daily driver status due to my mother totalling the X-type. We'll see how that works out. I took the X-Type $$ and put it to the side, for when it comes time to seek out a replacement for the S-type.

GM has had similar problems, especially with paint in the 90's, but they also eventually at least tried to make things right.

Seems like with Jaguar, if you're out of warranty, well you're on your own...

George

 

The oil pan is on the Ford engine so is the gasket a Ford part or one jag got specially?

Not sure how to blame jag for the ZF wiring sleeve but the tranny lines must (surely?) be jag's choice.

The coolant header must be jag's fault - they chose who to buy it from or the spec or whatever.

Pah! The DCCV. Made by Bosch but jag chose the pesky thing.

Actually... jag were just a part of Ford at the time so does that make them Ford's fault? LOL

Bob was right as far as I'm concerned - none of these are deal breakers.

Mind you.... how about that hose under the supercharger. SCARY.

 

I don't care who made it, OEM'ed it, or sourced it. It's on or in our car, so I have to deal with it. But this forum sure makes learning about and tackling these issues more palatable and economical, and for that I am truly grateful....

 

Jon, on our 3.0's the only PITA is the oil pan. And even that isn't that bad. After all Rick does like cheap beer lol!

I'd be dreading pulling the supercharger on the STR to get to a failed $10 coolant line..

Build quality wise, at least from an engineering standpoint these cars are not bad at all. Every car has it's design flaws that present themselves later in life. What's interesting is just like BMW, the consistent failures of specific things.
Go onto a GM forum - every post is about some random failure.

George

 

Is there any other??!!!

I wish there was someone local that needed that replaced, I die to have a go at it!

 

Between those two statements, you sir fit the definition of a Masochist

George

 

Oil Pan and gasket are Jag specific. (well ok, Lincoln LS too). Jag specific coolant tanks - the LS ones DO NOT fail. My X-Types tank failed in almost the exact same way - damn nipples breaking off due to heat cycling. Valeo is the supplier of the poor plastic here.

What's interesting is the Bosch DCCV's or Single CCV's fail pretty much across the Euro lines they are used in, BUT the Jags is one of the few that fails with an external leak. Most of them get stuck open and you have permanent full blast heat. Jag's is also the first one I've heard destroying the climate control unit, but that could be a design fault in the CCM, in that there's no relay to protect the output transistors from frying the ground trace if it shows a dead short. - Mercedes cars fry the "Klima" Relay - our failure just occurs on the CCM's circuit board.

IMT O-Rings are once again Jag / LS Specific. The regular Duratec Motors don't use them.
According to Brutal, when these failures first started happening, the O-Ring was not available individually, and Jag (under warranty) or the customer was looking at a 7-800 bill for replacement of both IMT valves. THAT would have ticked me off, especially if a little while later they started selling the sealing O-Rings for $5.

George

 

Wow, that list ought to go to Jaguar Corporate to make sure the company learns (or check if it maybe already has leraned) never to screw up like that again!

 

George,

I guess my definition of PITA is a bit different from yours because I would certainly classify the ZF sleeve leak repair and the transmission line seepage repair as certifiable PITAs along with the oil pan gasket replacement. Hell, doing ANYTHING to the ZF is a PITA because of no dipstick/fill-tube and having to make a special tool before you can even pull the fill plug out to do anything to it....

 

I find this one funny because I just sold my 2003 Dodge Ram to buy the 03 Jaguar. I find that Jag at least as easy to work on (with the exception of the cooling lines).

Re JOsworth: My lines were leaking about 6-8 large coin sized drops over the night from the swivel seals.

Chris

 

I just used an 8mm allen wrench for the special tool and extended the leverage with a deep reach 8mm socket on an extension.

 

You're sick ...

 

Yeah, sure ...

 

Centaur15,

I can climb into the engine bay of my 1999 Ram to work on the truck if I need to. At 6-foot-7 and 255 pounds, that's quite an advantage that very few other vehicles allow me to do. With our S-Type, there are many areas that I cannot even get my hands into, much less my arms. I've always loved working on the truck for two big reasons: 1. It rarely needs anything beyond routine maintenance, and 2. I have all the working room I need....