I just made some theatre popcorn...this has turned into quite a show. There seem to be two sides:


1.) Those who will go to ANY length to maintain their position....
2.) Those who have been laughing so hard that they've nearly passed out.


I am in camp #2.

 

FTFY.

 

At least this time you made me laugh, thanks!, this was great demonstration of narrow mindness I have to say, you even fail to see your in box no 1 as well.


Another great contribution again.

 

Anything that I can do to help, let me know.

 

Just a small update:

The open glass with the evans in my garage contained about 15% to 20% water, pretty much, although my garage is very moist its much higher then I would have thought.

The water content of the evans in my engine hasn’t changed, it is still about 1%.


So far I have driven 3600km, and all is more than fine.

One thing I think is different is that it takes longer now before the heater is blowing hot air. Not sure what the time was before, it is already a long time ago since I used it. I can explain this by the higher viscosity of the evans, which once it is hotter becomes also thinner, so easier again for the heater pump. Or it is that my 250Kmiles pump is maybe not up to the task anymore. Anyway, it does work, just kicks in a little later to my feeling.


I haven’t noticed any excessive temps, the coolant stays within the normal temp ranges.

Hottest so far was on a 15 degree day, hot engine, doing 3 wots in 2nd gear shortly after another, where I stopped actually after each wot to check some parameters (creates more heat I the engine bay from the cats/exhaust manifolds), and the coolant was about 101 degrees C. Normal for what I had done.


The conditions where I would expect (under normal driving) you could get hotter coolant (ie more fan on time), would be on a hot day with airco fully on, slow moving like in a traffic jam where you have minimal to zero airflow and also heat added by the slipping torque converter.
As its winter over here (well, big word), I don’t think I will run into any
anomalies, until summer.

Maybe I can do some additional tests when spring is back.
So far I am very happy with the setup, the thought that I don’t have to worry anymore about sudden coolant loses via hose ruptures or even the overflow tank (which is indeed known on my car that it can burst) is very comforting.

In January I will do some more power tests, and will also check the gear box oil temperatures. To be honest I don’t expect anything odd there, but who knows.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I have no explanation for the slow warm up but do not believe it's connected to fluid viscosity. Possibly aux pump cavitation?

Let me again put a word of caution about not worrying anymore about fluid loss from component rupture.

If we accept that degradation is caused by at least four factors

- time
- temperature
- pressure
- environment

The coolant being used allows the system pressure in the reservoir to be reduced by the cap rating, assumed to be 15 psi. We have no data on pressure in other areas of the engine or how they have been affected one way or the other by the system modification. It is obvious that the other factors mentioned have not changed and the components will continue to deteriorate unabated.

If and when they let go, the coolant will still escape at a rate that will require swift action by the driver.

 

The pipe under the supercharger is not under pressure that one is on the input side of the water pump, and this is the one that seems to fail.

As the system is pressure less, and as I can’t see any pipe where there could be any pressure build up (of any significance that could cause rupture!), it is indeed a piece of mind for me.

Even if there would be a slight increase on some places, it would still be 15 psi lower!

So there can’t be any rupture that would lead to a rapid release of coolant (which on a water based system would lead to boiling and a lot of trouble!), at worst it will slowly leak without any risks of overheating, giving enough time to find and fix the issue.

As there isn’t any increase in temperature for now (although I would expect some in the hotter summer months), the little extra heat that could occur (which is also temporary as the fans will bring it down again) will not be an imminent danger on the short run as you seem to put forward, maybe be in another 10 or 20 years, or even longer… Remember we are not even raising the temperature as advised by Evans for trucks!

Thanks anyway for pointing it out though, the completer the thoughts are the better ;-)

 

Have heard tales that welding/grinding sparks can ignite spilt Evans Waterless Coolant.


This is just a heads up, and not a criticism of the product, but as AVOS has an open container in his workshop checking on water absorption, and may not expect it.

 

Please let this thread die. I am using Wesson oil as a transmission fluid.

 

The flash point of a flammable liquid is the lowest temperature at which there will be enough flammable vapor to ignite when an ignition source is applied.

Unless Avos maintains his workshop at 120 deg. C, he should survive.

 

No different than a regular glycol based coolant, and it's vapours that might ignite, not the liquid. These vapours won't appear unless the liquid is heating to the flash point.

 

Hi all,

Having just done the valley pipe on my S-Type R 4.2 (I can tell you it's a real pig!) I was wondering if its failure could be prevented. The design of the pipe is a little thick-headed, in that there is a stub of fat pipe at the engine block end connected to thinner pipe that runs in the Vee valley to the throttle body area at the back of the engine. Given that at any particular fluid/air pressure, the wall tension is proportional to the diameter of the pipe - and the wall of the fat stubby bit is exactly the same thickness/composition as the thinner pipe, it's no surprise that that's where it ruptures. Mine did, and I see others on the forum have gone there too.

Without wanting to endorse any particular brand, there is a "waterless coolant" available with a much higher boiling point than water - that's supposed to run the cooling system without pressure. I may take the plunge and get some - just wondering if anyone out there with the 4.2 s/c engine has done the same thing - any good? Sounds like it could prevent expensive troubles...

BW
Fletch

 

Welcome to the forum Fletch. I've split your post out of the X350 section and moved it here to the S-Type section. We already had a thread going on waterless coolant.

When you get a moment stop by our new members area and introduce yourself.

 

I had an extended conversation on the 'pressureless coolant system' subject over the holidays with an old buddy from my other car hobby- old Corvettes.

He was relating the story of one of his own friends who had converted to Evans coolant and modified the rad cap to avoid system pressurization, much as has been discussed here. Also similar to Avos' experience, it's winter time so there's very little stress being put on the cooling system to see of it has enough capacity to deal with the characteristics of the Evans fluid.

The one point that stuck out in the conversation was the tendency for the car to suddenly and unpredictably 'peg' the coolant temp gauge forcing an immediate shut down. After lots of head scratching, it was noted that the condition only occurred when the engine was held at relatively high RPM for long periods of time. (30 seconds or more). It was also noted that the over temp condition would disappear as soon as the RPM was allowed to drop.

Long story short, the root cause was the lower radiator hose (inlet to the pump) collapsing at high engine RPM due to pump suction. Without making any changes other than installing a standard 15 psi rad cap, the problem could not be reproduced. The thinking is with the system modified to run at zero pressure, the pressure in the inlet hose dropped far enough below atmospheric (ie a vacuum) that the hose collapsed. It was pointed out to the owner of the car that the hose he was using was missing an internal reinforcement to prevent such collapse, his response was that he had tossed it some 15 years ago under the advice of some 'hot rodder'.


My point in posting this is to wonder if there is a comparable situation lurking on our Jags. Is it possible that one/some of the hoses on the 'suction side' are subject to collapse?

 

I think this is another snake oil thing. Let them run waterless coolant. I'm using what engineers designed.


Some people will spend their money on anything...

 

Good point!

Have thought about the suction part that could collapse rubber hoses, but on our cars we have re-enforced piping which already helps and there is also always a positive push side as well.

I would suspect it could happen when the main radiator hoses, so if the pump would require more flow (through the already restricted thermostat opening) which the radiator could not supply. I can only imagine that when the main radiator could be blocked (age, sludge build up or whatever), but that I haven’t seen yet. The other pipe would be the main short elbow one that goes into the block that feeds the water pump, which would be the most susceptible, but that one is pretty strong and the hose is also short which will help in keeping it open.

I have driven already long stretches at constant 3.000 rpm (in Germany of course), and also the power tests (so runs until 6000 rpm) didn’t show any odd temperature changes (which I would expect if the hoses would collapse).

 

I have just checked the coolant hoses whilst having the engine run at 3000 rpm (can't get higher as its limited there if the car isn’t moving). I made sure the coolant was at least 190 degrees, and then I checked what would happen if I would also squeeze the hoses, but nothing happened, there was no sign of the hoses wanting to collapse.

 

That's encouraging!

 

Have I missed something? I saw this:

"Long story short, the root cause was the lower radiator hose (inlet to the pump) collapsing at high engine RPM due to pump suction... It was pointed out to the owner of the car that the hose he was using was missing an internal reinforcement to prevent such collapse, his response was that he had tossed it some 15 years ago under the advice of some 'hot rodder'".

The logic of that "advice" escapes me. What would be the point of fitting a hose more prone to collapse as the input line to the water pump?

I cannot imagine any comparable situation existing in our Jags, unless the inlet hose was so damaged as to be mushy. At that point, it's too late to be switching to a pressure-less system.

 

As stated, the owner had been advised years ago to toss the internal reinforcement by a well meaning 'hot rodder'. The hose did not collapse in all those years without the reinforcement as the system was operating under ~15psia pressure as per design.

The hose DID collapse consistently with the system modified to operate at 0 psia pressure.

You, I, Avos or anybody reading this have no idea if there are any hoses on our Jags that are susceptible to collapse in the above manner with a pressureless cooling system.