Waterless Coolant
#241
If you missed my post, I have actually checked if they could collapse where I have found no evidence they will (not even when I helped a collapse!). Even the power runs I did where 6000 rpm was reached (so biggest suction), there was no sign in temperature difference that would support the idea that a suction pipe would have collapsed.
I will do more power runs the coming months (when the weather allows), where I will tough even more scenarios (i.e. longer time in high rpms for instance), although I do not expect any different results than I have found so far.
#242
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#243
If Avos can illuminate a dark corner of our knowledge, why would we not enthusiastically support him?
#244
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By unrelated coincidence from my other car hobby, I have learned that Chrysler performed some extensive testing of waterless coolants for their Viper.
Average system temps increased by 15-20*F. A paragraph was added to their warranty policy stating that using anything other than standard propylene glycol coolant will void the engine warranty.
Average system temps increased by 15-20*F. A paragraph was added to their warranty policy stating that using anything other than standard propylene glycol coolant will void the engine warranty.
#245
#247
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The 15-20*F that Chrysler saw is a reflection of how much margin was shaved off the Viper's system which may or may not be relevant to other cars. This subject was being discussed amongst '60s and '70s vintage Corvette enthusiasts. The systems on those cars don't have 10 degrees to spare never mind 15-20.
Amazingly, those guys like to beat certain subjects to death- like oil, filters, spark plugs, ethanol, octane, nitrogen, additives, etc. I have to look twice to see which board I'm on.
#248
Avos, how would you summarize the driving you have done over the last 6K miles? Competitive? Street aggressive? Regular but always on lookout for an opportunity? Traffic crawling?
Here's an (edited) comment I found from among the many made on thie subject of waterless coolant:
People who knock it won't use it because it's expensive, which I get. If it was the same cost as regular coolant it would be used by everyone.
Makes you wonder....
Here's an (edited) comment I found from among the many made on thie subject of waterless coolant:
People who knock it won't use it because it's expensive, which I get. If it was the same cost as regular coolant it would be used by everyone.
Makes you wonder....
#249
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#250
#251
I was given some Evans coolant a couple of years ago after doing some work
for a well known classic car mag in the uk.
Never liked the increase in running temps and whilst having a get together with the staff learned of the carnage it had done to the mags classic vehicles it had been put into. Water pump seal leaks, headgasket failure etc
All non provable but enough of a coincidence for me to get it out of my car a bit sharpish.
for a well known classic car mag in the uk.
Never liked the increase in running temps and whilst having a get together with the staff learned of the carnage it had done to the mags classic vehicles it had been put into. Water pump seal leaks, headgasket failure etc
All non provable but enough of a coincidence for me to get it out of my car a bit sharpish.
#252
#253
finally!
There is also camp #3, those who are completely frustrated that a subject
cannot be discussed rationally due to the tactics of those in camp #1.
I am in camp #3. And have been for quite some time.
++
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Robinb (04-04-2015)
#254
Have I missed something? I saw this:
"Long story short, the root cause was the lower radiator hose (inlet to the pump) collapsing at high engine RPM due to pump suction... It was pointed out to the owner of the car that the hose he was using was missing an internal reinforcement to prevent such collapse, his response was that he had tossed it some 15 years ago under the advice of some 'hot rodder'".
The logic of that "advice" escapes me. What would be the point of fitting a hose more prone to collapse as the input line to the water pump?
I cannot imagine any comparable situation existing in our Jags, unless the inlet hose was so damaged as to be mushy. At that point, it's too late to be switching to a pressure-less system.
"Long story short, the root cause was the lower radiator hose (inlet to the pump) collapsing at high engine RPM due to pump suction... It was pointed out to the owner of the car that the hose he was using was missing an internal reinforcement to prevent such collapse, his response was that he had tossed it some 15 years ago under the advice of some 'hot rodder'".
The logic of that "advice" escapes me. What would be the point of fitting a hose more prone to collapse as the input line to the water pump?
I cannot imagine any comparable situation existing in our Jags, unless the inlet hose was so damaged as to be mushy. At that point, it's too late to be switching to a pressure-less system.
than the presence of waterless coolant .... and he was possibly so cheap
he was using a 15 year old hose, or even older if he tossed the anti-collapse
spring some years after installation
Last edited by plums; 04-04-2015 at 04:03 AM.
#255
#256
Now, for a couple of observations:
a) hose collapse has been report on JF in vehicles running
JF specified coolant ... old/cheap hose will do that .. nothing special
except that the particular owner has not kept up with maintenance
or is clueless
b) the cooling system is designed to run at up to 15 psi
before venting, there is nothing that suggests it runs at 15 psi all of
the time ... otherwise everyone would be carrying jugs of coolant to
top up after every drive
c) on a healthy cooling system there is very little observable hose swelling,
and when it does occur it is usually after shutdown when there is no
coolant circulation and localised vapor pockets form
d) cooling systems often operate at zero or negative pressure relative to the
atmosphere ... think cold start and jumping on the throttle soon after. still no
hose collapse
e) the cooling system *is* pressurised even if there is no vapor pressure. it
is mechanically pressurised by the water pump. even the lower rad hose which
is the mythical collapsing hose because the thermostat presents a restriction
even when fully open
might as well just tack this on here:
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Related/The...tTransfer.html
a) hose collapse has been report on JF in vehicles running
JF specified coolant ... old/cheap hose will do that .. nothing special
except that the particular owner has not kept up with maintenance
or is clueless
b) the cooling system is designed to run at up to 15 psi
before venting, there is nothing that suggests it runs at 15 psi all of
the time ... otherwise everyone would be carrying jugs of coolant to
top up after every drive
c) on a healthy cooling system there is very little observable hose swelling,
and when it does occur it is usually after shutdown when there is no
coolant circulation and localised vapor pockets form
d) cooling systems often operate at zero or negative pressure relative to the
atmosphere ... think cold start and jumping on the throttle soon after. still no
hose collapse
e) the cooling system *is* pressurised even if there is no vapor pressure. it
is mechanically pressurised by the water pump. even the lower rad hose which
is the mythical collapsing hose because the thermostat presents a restriction
even when fully open
might as well just tack this on here:
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Related/The...tTransfer.html
Last edited by plums; 04-04-2015 at 04:26 AM.
#257
#259
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Not at all.
Putting aside that our cars have 'dumb' coolant temp gauges and cannot be used to measure any change in system behaviour, the actual coolant temp would remain constant until such time as the thermostat ran out of authority.
None of us know how much margin the S-types have. Avos' experiment indicate that it's sufficient to deal with the conditions so far.
Putting aside that our cars have 'dumb' coolant temp gauges and cannot be used to measure any change in system behaviour, the actual coolant temp would remain constant until such time as the thermostat ran out of authority.
None of us know how much margin the S-types have. Avos' experiment indicate that it's sufficient to deal with the conditions so far.
#260
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