Hey

I have recently bought a 2001 S-Type, 130 000 KM, and in good shape. However, I've recently gotten a sound from the engine which I can't recognise from other cars I've had. Any ideas on what it is? Should I panic?


Thanks, Christian

 

I don't know, but the big worry on the 4.0 is whether the timing chain tensioners etc have been changed!! (Search for details.)

 

Not yet. Maybe pre-panic would be more appropriate.

Diagnosing noises can be tricky. I'd suggest removing the serpentine belt and run the engine briefly like that. You'll have no coolant circulation, so only run the engine at idle for a very short time, maybe 15 seconds or so.

If the noise stops, the source was something external such as the water pump or alternator. Spin each driven component by hand and check for any noise or roughness in the bearings. If you find a problem, that would be a relatively easy fix.

My initial thought was a timing chain, but I watched several videos for comparison and all were MUCH noiser and consistent.

As JagV8 has strongly suggested, make sure your engine has the updated timing chain tensioners, but I don't think the chain is the source of the noise.

 

Hey, thanks for the reply (from both of you)!

First, I ran the car warm now and the sound disappears as soon as the engine reaches working temparature. Not sure what that means, I'm not sure (as an amateur) how the tensioners are affected by the heat (if the spring might be working poorly before reaching working temperature?).

I've been looking into this question more, and today I was on the phone with a Jaguar specialist in Sweden. He said something about the revisions of the tensioners (which I've read about on the forum) and how I could see in the engine bay if the change has been done. He mentioned some kind of plastic near the oil checker dip stick that was supposed to be cut when doing the tensioner fix. Something about it having to be cut for the dip stick holder to be able to be removed.

However, I'm not exactly sure what he meant and I've checked the engine bay and can't see anything cut. I've attached pictures of the engine bay to this post. Are you aware of what the mechanic meant, and if yes: Can you see if whatever it is has been cut?

Thanks a lot, Christian

 

 

Don't know what happened with the text, but here it is: Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I've noticed that the sound is gone as soon as the engine reaches working temperature. Not sure what that points at. I'll definitely try the serpentine belt to see if I can rule that out. I might also add that my AC fluid is out, whenever I turn on the AC inside the car I get a wheezing sound, so I'll try to fill it up this week.

I also spoke to a jaguar mechanic today, and he mentioned something about the tensioners. That whenever they are changed, some kind of plastic close to the oil dip stick is supposed to be cut (to be able to open up the engine). I've attached pictures of the engine bay, close to the dip stick. Are you familiar with what he's speaking of, and if yes - can you see if whatever plastic it is has been cut?

All the best and thanks, Christian

 

Hard to say from the sound? But it's not too big of a job to remove at least one cam cover and take a quick look?
Never heard of the plastic pieces being cut and I would not rely on that anyway.

Orange colored plastic is a big clue to their age as they start out white in color.
Here is an Lincoln LS that had failed tensioners so you can see how they age.





They start out looking like this.




So I would not delay checking this. Do remove the belt first to at least rule out external accessories making the noise.
Can you do a timing chain service?
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Hey, thanks for the reply. I wouldn't say that I was born with the thumb in the middle of my hand, but I'm no mechanic either. I did a few jobs in my old Mazda 626 from 89, but that engine room was considerably easier to overview.

Regarding the timing chain service - I think that the picking apart and putting together should be fine, I just get really nervous when I read that you have to be really careful not to fuddle up settings in the car, and not get some timing out of alignment. On the other hand, the garage wanted 15000 SEK (1500 USD) to replace the timing chain tensioners, so that's not really a possible solution either.

Does the question of working temperature make any sense to you? Why the sound stops when working temperature of the engine is reached?

None-the-less, I'll try the serpentine belt first.

Thanks, Christian

 

One idea (well, two versions of one idea...) is to check closely where the noise is from. Method one is get a stethoscope, stick one end in your ear and move the other around the alternator pulley, water pump, any other moving part, etc, trying to pinpoint where the noise is. Method two is get a big long metal screwdriver, put tip on the alternator, water pump, etc and listen to the other end/feel for any vibration. I tried the stethoscope method once on an old water cooled VW I had and the sound coming from the bearing on the otherwise quiet-as-far-as-I-knew alternator was amazing.

 

Hey guys!

Okay, good news and bad news..

Good news: I can reliably disassemble what's needed to remove the serpentine belt - as well as reassemble in the reverse order. The car started fine, though the sound was still there. I've uploaded the video on youtube, link below. The sound isn't there immediately at start, but sounds a few seconds later and grows in strength. When I turn off, I think the wheezing sound is the aircon (which I filled yesterday after having that same wheezing intermittent sound in the interior, thinking it was the expansion valve or something sounding because of low AC fluid (as the was no cold air from the AC either), though that's another thread).

Before the video I tried turning all the rollers (and pulling on them a bit to feel for play), and they were all steady and rolling fine.

Bad news: I guess this narrows things down. I really didn't want to have to change the timing chain tensioners, but I guess I'm reaching a point of no choice. Any good guides? I want to prepare myself as well as I can.

Link to the video:
Thanks, Christian

 

Hey, thanks for your reply! I just came back from trying the engine without the serpentine belt, but the sound persisted. Thanks anyway for your tip.

 

Sorry but I think your right. I would not be driving it until at least you inspect the timing stuff. It is almost a given that with the 4.0L V-8 you will need to change them.
But there are a number of very good threads and videos about how to do it. Please don't cheap out and do the zip tie method and only change the secondary tensioners. That is a hack and will not solve the problem.
Look on EBay as there a number of complete kits with everything needed to do this repair.

Man I just looked and the parts have really come down in price! Well under $150 for everything is quite good plus now they are including all the cam gears too. I even saw several kits that included a water pump. Since your there that might be something to do to. It has to be removed anyway. Can't comment on the range of prices as there are kits at the $500 level too. Maybe someone can post what they used?
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Thanks for your reply. I've been scouring the forum for threads (in the XK8 forum as well), a lot of peoples pictures are gone by now, but the instructions are still there. I'm getting a new HDD for an old laptop I have to install XP or Win7 on, to run JTIS for instructions. I'll also look on ebay today for kits to buy, considering a larger service now that everything will be "open", just like you said.

Might I ask what specalised tools I will need? Want to order those as soon as possible.

Thanks, Christian

 

Kind of hard to say as I have not done the repair? I do know the main 2 are the camshaft locking tool and the crankshaft locking tool.
Many people try to get by without them and everything is under spring tension so when you remove the chains the cams will move.

Here is what you want to look at. These are slightly off because they did NOT use the camshaft locking tool.



Those flat surfaces must be level like on the right side of the picture. Now the tool is a very simple flat bar and some have made their own depending on your skill level.
Again there are tool sets on EBay that contain everything and another idea is to borrow a set from someone on the forum? If they would offer of course!

Here are several repair instructions with some very good pictures to help.
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And another one.
Sorry won't upload? Maybe to big at 6Mb.

Well here is a video too.


So be sure and search for videos. There are a number of them posted on YouTube
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Id still try the mechanics stethoscope to narrow down the area of the sound. Could be a valve out of adjustment but they are usually pretty periodic and not random.

does it speed up when u give it gas? If not it might be a coolant pump.

is the fan running when it happens? Turn off the AC and try it

 

Hey man, thanks for the tips!

Yes, the ticking becomes faster when giving gas, and the sound is there with and without AC. I'm changing the upper tensioners this weekend, hoping it helps!

 

Hey guys, good news - bad news - and unsure how to define news:

I got two new upper tensioners on the mail today, so I started disassembling down to the right valve cover, opened it up - just to find out that the new metal ones were already installed. The chain looked nice, with no obvious slack, however I was not able to see the lower tensioners when looking down the along the primary timing chains. So the good news are that I already have the new uppers on.

Unsure how to define news are the fact that I'm now not sure about my lowers. I'm still wondering if they are the ones making the sound - or if it's something else.

Bad news are that after assembly (though I didn't put on the engine cover), when starting the car, there was this really strange sound (apart from the rattling). It almost sounded like when you have a window half-open on the highway, when the pressure is changing quickly to and from, creating a "beating" sound. I didn't dare to give it too much gas, but when I did give it a little I though I could feel a bit of wobble in the car, almost like the right bank of the engine wasn't producing the same power.

Now I was a bit tired when putting it all to together, but I did do it very methodically, and there were no screws left (and no loose wires that I could see). No error code on the dashboard either.

The obvious tip from some of you will be to open up her all up, all the way down to the primary tensioners. I will probably do that as soon as I've returned these horribly expensive upper tensioners I bought from Sweden and gotten home a kit from Ebay.

Until then, any tips on what the strange sound might be? Both with regards to the "beating" sound, and with regards to the rattle.

All the best, Christian

Vid to engine sound: Pic is of tensioner

 

Can you snake one of those remote camera wand doohickeys down there?

I’ve got a HF special that set me back a whopping $40 or so. It’s small enough to feed through a spark plug hole for inspections. It has its own screen, but I’ve seen others that work with a smartphone. Either version would hopefully work for you.

 

Hey, so I tried out the snake camera whatever this weekend, it was absolutely impossible (for me) to get to the primary chain tensioners. Didn't manage at all, even though I tried for an hour. Non-the-less, I did consider the fact that I could see the primary timing chain glider thing. I've put a link to a youtube video where I look down the chain.

Now, I was thinking if it was possible to determine if they have been changed by the color of the glider, as with the chain tensioners (old red plastic vs new metal body ones)?

I've ordered a kit and booked a time at a garage where I can work for a weekend, so I'll open her up non-the-less (as new parts can break as well), but I would like to prepare if it might be something else.

Link:
Thanks