George, I agree but it was not how a previous poster seemed to be addressing it.

Jaguar say for heavy usage (I guess towing):
Severe Duty Maintenance Change the fluid at 48,000 km (30,000 miles) interval

 

ok so what I gather the oil spec is Shell M1375.4? That gives me a few leads to follow given my resources if anyone is interested in me persuing it.

 

Yes, please do. It would be great to find a cost effective solution that meets the spec required by ZF and Jaguar.

Oh as a little thanks for your effort...I will definitely frequent my local NAPA more often..

 

Wow...Seriously sir.... What's up?????

It's real simple and so was my question...If the fluid put in is not the spec required by the manufacturer, the warranty is void... Same as if I poured trans fluid into the crank case of my mower, then it blew up...Simple..

I'm so sorry you seem to be on a crusade against the OEM or the dealer network...I (and most people here) don't have the same issues..In fact we depend on people that work for those same organizations for very valuable assistance...

The original poster stated that he worked for a supplier to a national auto-parts chain and was wondering if it was worth looking into a satisfactory fluid replacement that could be sold through that chain. VERY NOBLE, BTW, and I for one am happy that he is offering to do that...

 

I went with the redline after talking with their tech department. Pro's: Better qualify synth base stock, higher shear breakdown, meets Jaguar Shell spec requirements, cost effective and easily obtainable. Con's: They added red dye to it, not many "forum users" have tried it. IMO, shifts were smoother and faster with the redline.

From a warranty perspective, Jaguar also sales factory motor oil, brake fluid and coolant. If you use another brand's motor oil that meets the weight spec and meets or exceeds the API rating, they can't invalidate the warranty under the federal Moss-magnuson act. I would imagine that the same would apply if the fluid meets Jag's requirements (Shell M... spec). In real life, I think if you used the non-compliant clear Pentosin, no one would ever know but the compliant red Redline stuff would raise a flag.

 

It is dangerous to assume that Jaguar cannot void your warranty if you choose to use an ATF other than ZF Fluid. ZF requires it, therefore so does Jaguar. Motor oil recommendations from various automotive manufacturers are strictly that - just recommendations, not requirements. But when ZF's documentation clearly states "ZF Fluid is required" (as it does), your legal challenge against them (or Jaguar) will be much more difficult if you decide to run a different ATF that supposedly meets the Shell M1375.4 specs (as the Castrol Multi-Import ATF does). As I said before, Jaguar Corporate has already told me that anyone putting anything other than the proper ZF Fluid into a 6-speed ZF will immediately void whatever warranty they may still have through Jaguar....

I don't think it is worth the risk as long as your S-Type is under warranty. Once your warranty has run its course, you can run whatever fluid you choose. Will it work? I have no idea, but I sure hope so for everyone's sake. CCC's car is proving to be a good test, and so far, he sounds very pleased. That's good news for all of us who want options when it comes to other ATF....

 

I think the question that is still unanswered on the Redline fluid is it's interaction with the remaining Shell fluid if you were to mix the two. If Redline meets the Shell spec then, yes Jaguar could not void a warranty for using it. I really don't care what color it is. Also, I sincerely apologize if you have answered the compatibility issue already in another post. This and DCCV valves have become the "hot topics" lately and seem to run together...

My rusting door has made me seriously consider getting out of this car..Then everything else I look at reminds me why I got it in the first place... So, I really need to think about long term with this....At least until XF's are down into the attainable range...

 

When Jaguar called it "mineral oil", at first, I thought it was some sort of special fluid. The BMW guys use the Pentosin ATF in the ZF6. That fluid meets the ESSO spec which is spec'ed by BMW for the ZF5 and also on ZF list for approved oils for the ZF5 (quite a number of oils on that list). The Pentosin doesn't seem to have any mixing issues with ZF6 so I assumed that lifeguard 5 and 6 are pretty similar and that "mineral oil" is nothing really special.

Furthermore, synth bases stock falls into a 2 or 3 different groups. The redline base is one of the better quality groups, the "mineral oil" in the lowest quality group based on a process that Shell converts mineral oil to synth. base stock. There are a number of different chemicals in the different groups. Looks like products mix bases within and between groups to achieve a desired performance and cost so I don't expect any mixing issues.

For those that are out of warranty (like me)

Fluid, Shell Spec, Synth, Larger User base, Color, cost
Redline yes, yes, no, red, med low
Pentosin no, yes, yes, clear, med low
Castol yes, no, no, red, low
ZF yes, yes, yes, clear, high
Jaguar yes, yes, yes, clear, very high

Price delta between low and med low are pretty close ($2-3/qt) so I ruled out Castol. So it comes down to meeting either the Shell spec or a larger user base. Pentosin is prob. lower risk but I bet my ZF6 on Red. If your under warranty, then you have additional considerations depending on your risk/reward tolerance.

 

That is my concern. Is it worth a $4,000.00 transmission to experiment?

 

CCC, I want to change the ZF trans fluid. What was the Red Line part number to use and how many quarts?

Thank you

 

bfsgross you will want to read this thread by ccc

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=30991

 

If you could get it all out it's about 10.6 quarts. I think that includes even the lines and oil cooler. I believe you get about 8 out if you drop the pan.

 

Redline D4 ATF. I think you need 6, I bought 7 incase I spilled some pumping it up (PIA to get more in the middle of the job).

 

It would be interesting to find the real and proven reason Jaguar charge so much for their ATF fluid. And interesting indeed to deeply probe specification and warranty issues. If this were politics, there would be leaked memos and e-mails popping up all over the place. I'm now waiting for Jaguar to insist that their warranty becomes void unless the user employs engine oil supplied by Jaguar at (of course) four times the normal price. It makes just as much sense. Maybe someone will produce a website called "the rip-off.com". We already have "the lurch.com".
Meanwhile...residuals keep dropping like a brick down a well.
Leedsman.
Oh, and I nearly forgot -- more power to websites such as this; free speech is our only defence against this kind of thing.

 

You can buy it from ZF. It's very expensive. That's probably where jag get it.

AFAIK when the box is in a BMW and you try to buy their fluid it's again very expensive. Ditto for the other marques which use the ZF 6HP26.

 

So an Update Castrol does make a blend specifically for ZF6. Im still waiting for more details from Castrol and I will post them up as I get them

 

Thank you CCC and all others for researching trans fluid.

 

Well someone has to do it! Plus, I've benefit from other peoples experiments on different cars to find the cost effective factory alternative over the years thats saved me quite a bit of $$$ so its my turn. Also, helps to convince yourself its not that big of a risk.

 

Jaguar cannot require a specific brand of fluid to be used, only a specific specification. So they can't say you must used ZF, but if nobody else makes the same spec fluid then you are stuck. Not Jag's fault.
They also cannot make a blanket statement like, "your warranty is automatically voided". They still need to prove it was the type of fluid used that caused the failure.
My question is who certifies the specifications for transmission fluid? If's it's a documented outside party, than that's pretty cut and dry. If it's the manufacture that says, “sure this’ll work”, you might be stuck in a he said, she said between the dealer and the fluid manufacture.

 

hmmmm eyebrow raised.......pondering that point