He says he's already checked the software since you posted an even longer list of TSBs for him here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...roblems-61560/

 

Yup! The Mechatronic was updated to the latest software available at the Jag dealer via download of a coded access program and that didn't fix my original surging problem so the converter was swapped out. Just awaiting arrival of my case of LG6 to get it changed over from the Mercon-SP I put in it and then we'll know whether or not the fluid was the problem. Thanks all!!

 

KIa-Chunk! This jutter problem is still plaguing me after flushing and refilling the trans and torque converter with the ZF LG6 transmission fluid. There appears to be little, if any difference in how the transmission is behaving with LG6 versus the Mercon-SP I had it completely filled with last week, along with a pan, bolt and sleeve change. I'm at my wits end. The remanufactured torque converter cured the original surging problem (converter clutch slippage) and now with the remanufactured converter and a full fill of either Mercon-SP or now the LG6, the car is still exhibiting jutter in the 50-60mph range. Can't for the life of me figure out why this car, with only 38000 miles on it, is exhibiting these seemingly persistent and uncurable transmission/torque converter problems??????? Any other thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated. Other than the jutter, the transmission shifts properly and crisply across all gears with either the Mercon-SP or LG6 fluids in it and under normal or aggressive acceleration. Message to Jaguar and ZF: THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!

 

This may help anyone considering doing the change themselves with just DIY facilities - Its not rocket science but care must be taken - the Millers Oils is a UK supplier - The ZF fluid was expensive and not easy to come by when I did this change. Hope this Info helps -

changed my fluid recently on a June 2004 3-0. (Reason - I have the lurch and wanted fluid all good before getting software update) The fluid was dark grey and not very nice looking but no particles or magnetic bits so the internals were okay. the car had done around 85k. some light towing and quite a lot of motorway/suburban use. I used the flush and fill method and it took 20 ltrs (about £90 delivered from Millers Oils)
Had the car set up on DIY ramp (HD building blocks and scaffold boards) so it was level and secure - Drained fluid out via drain plug.
When no more came out, this was when I planned to take off my pan, Then found the pan/filter supplied was wrong type !! Needed car Monday (this was Saturday afternoon )so do I put back old fluid or carry on?
I carried on, Used garden sprayer with the nozzle removed to inject fluid until it started to overflow out of fill/level plug then started engine and carried on injecting until it was full - Replaced plug - Let engine run for ten minutes moving gear selector through all gears. Turn of engine and drain again. Repeated this until fluid being drained was totally clean. Then left engine and g/box to cool overnight ( I was knackered and the wife was waving a bottle of wine at me - no contest ) Next morning final fill with engine running and temperature probe in fill point. got fluid temp to about 40c with fluid just overflowing with a small stream - and put back fill plug. Test run car around streets and then down the motorway. Shifts are smoother the lurch is still there but not so bad. With these results - will I repeat the above in order to change the filter? - probably not !
I ended up with about 2 ltrs of new fluid unused, Overall the job was not difficult -other than getting the final fill done with the temperature correct, if you miss this it is important to cool down and start again as the temp/expansion of oil sets the level.
Ended up with an aching back with all the diving back and forth under the car - but then I'm not 21 anymore

 

comikey - Hang on, it's not fair to message Jaguar/ZF that it's ridiculous. You have the only car with this problem that I can recall on any of the S-Type forums over several years. It could easily be some other fault with just your box, in fact almost certainly is.

It may be ridiculous that you've changed the fluid a lot in the hope that it would fix the problem - I don't know because I'm not an autobox specialist. Sounds like you need one.

 

I have an inquiry into ZF Europe for recommendations. The problem is absolutely with the ZF hardware or electronics, or it may be that there is something wrong with the remanufactured torque converter I had installed for the original surging problem. The electronics ("box") is integrated into the Mechatronic electronic/fluidic controller (valve body) inside this transmission. It is not an external "box". The problem is somewhere in the transmission/Mechatronic/torque converter. Jaguar didn't manufacture the drive train components. The Mechatronic was updated by the Jag dealer with the latest coded access program download to the Mechatronic in an attempt to correct the original surging problem (torque converter lockup clutch shot at <38000 miles) and it was the Jag dealer that said the converter was bad. I need to know from ZF what to look for as likely causes of the jutter problem after the torque converter was replaced and the transmission refilled with all LG6 fluid via a fill machine hooked into the transmission cooler lines. The overflow and heat up procedure were done. Other than the jutter problem with the remanufactured converter installed, the transmission shifts cleanly and crisply through all gears under normal or aggressive acceleration. Either there is something wrong with the remanufactured converter, or there is something wrong in the Mechatronic. I'm leaning towards the latter the way the car shifts properly and there is a question as to what caused the original converter to wear out prematurely. My guess is the previous owner was experiencing jutter that finally took out the converter clutch that led to the surging, and it's something in the Mechatronic that's the root cause of the problem - improperly operating lockup function or leaking lockup solenoid valve, or........, etc.?????????? But, it's getting very costly to keep throwing 1000's of dollars at it with no solid information as to what we should be looking for. This is where I need ZF to weigh in. I'm sure they have a fault analysis tree somewhere to approach this issue. My next step is probably to pay the Jag dealer again to put the scan tool on the Mechatronic and see if it is functioning properly. It is absolutely ridiculous to be having these kinds of issues with a premiere vehicle at 38000 miles. It is extremely unusual to experience these types of problems until vehicles have well over 100000 miles on them. This is supposed to be a "sealed" unit that shoudn't need maintenance until 100000 miles. With proper maintenance, automatic transmission systems will often run into the 200-300 thousand mile range before needing serious maintenance. This vehicle was not abused; is in pristine condition other than the transmission problems; and should not be exhibiting these issues at this mileage. Just the fact that Jaguar has software algorithms to address torque converter surging through the Mechatronic, and the fact that numerous converter rebuilders I've been in contact with have advised of problems with these converters tells me ZF had some problems with these transmissions. I'd just like to get it resolved so my wife can begin enjoying driving her Jag! I would be surprised if this is the only vehicle that has exhibited the problems I'm having. In fact, I asked the Jag dealer service manager if they'd had problems with these converters in the past. His comment was, "I wouldn't say we've had a lot of problems with them, but we have replaced several of these converters under warranty."

 

Thanks for telling me a bunch of stuff I know and that has appeared here quite a few times

 

CoMikey:
Are you positive that the judder you are experiencing is not somewhere else in the drivetrain, or even the tires/wheels? Tire imbalance issues usually manifest themselves in the 50-60 mph range also. Front wheel imbalance will be readily felt through the steering wheel, but is less obvious if its in the rear wheels. Driveshaft ( aka prop shaft to the Brits) imbalance (ex. - it dinged or dented, or bad support bearing), bad u-joints, worn differential also create similar problems, although not usually at part throttle cruising. When the judder occurs try shifting into neutral. If it goes away its likely the transmission; if it does the same in neutral at that same speed range then start looking elsewhere.

 

Absolutely convinced it's coming from the torque converter or transmission as the vibration intermittently comes and goes on a steady cruise at 50-55 mph and by backing off or pressing harder on the accelerator, one can generally get the vibration to stop momentarily and then it will come and go - doesn't do it continuously and not constant at any speed, as would be generally expected with a driveshaft imbalance. It's intermittent and comes and goes. It manisfests itself as a brief, dull, vibration sound, like a body resonance when driving over a washboard road, and coming from the area of the transmission. It is not a driveshaft vibration problem and the car will accelerate and snap smoothly through all gears from 0 to 90mph. It is a shudder/jutter/vibration noise and did not manifest itself until after I had the transmission pulled and the torque converter replaced and the transmission was topped off with the wrong fluid (now corrected and still have the problem). There is a vibration/noise condition called "shudder" or "jutter" amongst the automatic transmission / drivetrain community that is generally caused by the torque converter lockup clutch slipping or cycling, sometimes possibly due to using the wrong fluid; inadequate hydraulic pressure from the pump (leakage in a hydraulic path) or leakage in the solenoid valve body; or slippage in a planetary clutch pack associated with a particular gear where something in the hydraulic circuit that clamps the clutch pack is leaking and clutch clamping pressure is compromised and the clutch disks slip, as I understand it. However, the way the transmission is shifting through all gears, I don't think it's clutch pack slippage. Or, it could be due to the programming in the Mechatronic - remember, my Jag dealer tried to address the original surging caused by torque converter clutch slippage (worn out lockup clutch) by reprogramming the Mechatronic control program but it didn't eliminate the slippage and they told me the converter was bad (multiple independent sources have advised the carbon-fiber lockup clutch materials used in these converters has been a problem; and a V-8 owner advised he waited for the Jag dealer to get a converter in from ZF with "upgraded clutch materials" to address his converter wear out problem; so I don't think what I'm experiencing is an isolated incident. I suspect what has happened is that the problems have been addressed under vehicle warranties and then you don't hear about it.). An on-line Jag tech I've been consulting thinks the remanufactured torque converter might not be "up to snuff" - maybe converter clutch still slipping under certain load and control conditions?? Rebuilder claims to repair to original ZF specs. My transmission shop thinks there might be something wrong with the Mechatronic in terms of how it is controlling the lockup function- poorly operating solenoid valve circuit; internal Mechatronic fluidic path leak (e.g., leaking seal or O-ring causing the controls to oscillate in response to fluctuating fluid pressures?); something with the programming or electronics that's causing the lockup function to be turning on and off at a rapid rate causing the jutter noises. I suspect there are speed sensors that monitor crankshaft/engine speed versus transmission input shaft speed to control when the lockup function can be enabled, etc. My transmission shop thinks the next step is to have Jag put their Mechatronic scan tool on the car and drive it to validate Mechatronic and lockup functions before suspecting a faulty remanufactured converter or the Mechatronic. I'd like to not have to replace the Mechatronic unless it is proved faulty as they're about $1500 exchange for a remanufactured unit + labor and fluid. I'm beginning to suspect there was something wrong with the Mechatronic operations or the original control program in terms of the original converter clutch having failed and now that I've replaced the converter, that the real problem is manifesting itself as "jutter" - something faulty with the lockup function or fluid pressures in this transmission?? There is no indication the vehicle has been abused. It looks and smells new and there are no leaks or damage anywhere on or under the vehicle. Completely clean CarFAX and the Jag dealer has the original owner's repair history on the vehicle. It's as clean as you'll find with only about 38K miles on it at this time. Unfortunately for me, it's no longer under warranty so it's all out-of-pocket for dianosis and repairs at this point. Thanks for everyones' suggestions.

 

Is the vibration the same in different gears? I would drive in 6th and make the vibration happen then downshift and hold 5th, do it again and then shift and hold 4th and again repeat. This will force the engine to be at different RPM's at the same speed. Might give a few more clues.

I have not seen if this is gear dependent or happens in all gears?
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Only does it cruising or accelerating slowly through the 50-60mph range now and only intermittently. I'd say it's probably in 5th or 6th gear as the transmission has pretty much shifted through all gears by the time one reaches that speed. Once you get above 55-60mph, it doesn't seem to do it now with the LG6 fluid change. The car will run fine at our freeway speeds of 75mph. It's difficult to "catch" it as it isn't constant. It'll judder for just a few seconds intermittently and then stop. We're taking the car for a couple hundred mile trip today so we'll see how she goes. Thanks!

 

A little bit off topic but still a good deal. There is a used 6 speed ZF transmission for a 2003 STR on Ebay and they just lowered the price to $630. Comes with the TQ and it has 81K miles. Supposedly taken from a working car. They are parting a 2003 STR which is hard to find anyway!

This is the cheapest I have ever seen a used unit. With all the money you have spent maybe you would be better off with another unit?? I have no connection to the seller of this item!!

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
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Going for a test drive with the Jaguar dealer service manager on Thursday to see what they think about the ongoing judder situation at 50-55mph. Put a couple hundred miles on the Jag last Sunday and tranny worked fine except for the intermittent judder in the 50-55mph range. Posted right at 30mpg so it's apparently working most of the time but tranny shop recommended correcting the problem before it hammers out the torque converter clutch again. Have an inquiry into ZF for technical recommendations/suggestions but haven't heard back from them. Contact I sent the inquiry to is out until 11/3.

 

Turns out to be a 6th gear problem just before the trans wants to shift down into 5th gear - maximum load on the engine; lugging condition. Dealer service manager thought it was drivetrain vibration due to engine lugging but still sounds like judder to me. ZF engineer called me and initially thought it might be a bad spark coil but after I explained what it was doing, he thought it was engine lugging in 6th gear. If the vehicle is driven in sport mode with higher shift points that keeps the engine rpms a bit higher, no judder is experienced. ZF recommended driving it in normal, non-sport mode and flipping the shifter into 5th gear and holding it there if driving in the "judder range" - 50-55mph. ZF engineer did reiterate that this transmission doesn't like any fluid other than LG6. Said thay have seen various issues in Jag, Audi and Range Rover and more so if the units are driven as "grocery-getters" versus being driven a little more aggressively, relative to how the adaptive shift software sets up. As the fresh LG6 fluid has been run in the transmssion since the fluid flush and change, the judder problem is less evident and we do have a "work around" - running in sport mode or downshifting into 5th gear to prevent it from occurring. Jag service manager was going to try and take a different unit when one came in and see if he could replicate the lugging/vibration problem encountered with this one (TBD). Jag dealer thought reloading the shift point program, which is separate from the base program, apparently, might correct the problem as he thought the adaptive software might have learned "bad habits" when the slipping torque converter was in the vehicle, but ZF engineer said reloading the shift point software code wouldn't change operation so didn't take it in for more programming.

 

I have also had ZF management tell me (exactly as I expected) that Lifeguard 6 is the only fluid to use, but they admitted that it is also the only fluid they have ever tested. The Lincoln Navigator has the same 6-speed ZF transmission, but Lincoln uses and recommends one of the latter Ford Mercon ATF products, not Lifeguard 6. I think we've had enough evidence here on the forum over the past couple of years that a handful of other ATF products successfully work in these transmissions. Several members have used a variety of three or four different ATF products, all far less costly than ZF's magic juice, and reported completely normal operation and no problems afterward. This may be part of the reason why ZF has had to lower its ridiculous pricing structure for Lifeguard 6 over the past year....

I'm still considering Castrol Multi-Import ATF as a strong possibility when I finally opt to drain-and-fill our ZF. It meets the Shell specs required and is very affordable at around $5 per quart here, and even less if you wait for a sale. If Lifeguard 6 continues to drop to a price point where it truly belongs (no more than $8 to $9 per litre in my neck of the woods), I'll be far more likely to stick with it when drain-and-fill time rolls around for me....

 

Forgot to mention that the Jag tech I consulted on line initially had mentioned the mechatronics are different in some of the transmission variants. May be that the Ford mechatronic is configured to work with the Mercon-SP?? Initially after my converter was replaced, the shop refilled the tranny with Mercon-LV and it had a 50:50 mix of original LG6 and LV. Then had it flushed and filled with Mercon-SP and it still exhibited significant judder. Then had it flushed and filled with LG6 and it doesn't misbehave nearly as bad with the LG6 as it did with the Mercon. When ZF contacted me they advised they do offer remanufactured converters but my local Jag dealer would only offer repair with a new converter at $2000 + $800 labor. An independent shop did the reman swap with new input seal for $875. If they'd refilled it with the LG6 instead of Mercon-LV I'd probably never have had the judder problems. They did that because BAP-Geon wanted $65/liter for LG-6. They tried to sub Mercon-SP for the refill at $8/qt but the Ford dealer was no longer carrying it and recommended the LV as a substitute for SP (bad recommendation!). I got the LG6 from www.thectsc.com for $17/liter and bought a whole case of 12 for the flush and refill. Good Luck!

 

I had my trans fluid changed along with the filter pan at 76,000 miles. It has a Mercon-spec ATF in it. No real problems, although I have the surge at 40-60 mph when cold. Prior to moving to Texas, I had the Jaguar dealer reflash the trans to get rid of the surge to no avail. I just live with it at this point. I now have 85,000 on the clock. I drive a lot of local type driving now and stay in low gears. It goes away after the car has been driven for about 15 minutes.

Had

 

Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions on the Forum. Appears there are others out there that have experienced similar problems to mine. Can only hope all the dialogue will help others experiencing the same or similar problems in the future and that what we've gone through will save others some time, money and grief. Thanks!!

 

Comikey did you ever get it figured out why the shudder?

 

Motorcarman,
Have been trying to find your shop.

If all possible, I would like to bring my 2003 Jag S type 3.0 by & get your opinion on my tranny problem & fix. Thanks!
EdSpeedyg@yahoo.com