Please help!!! Jaguar dealership wants $900 for transmission oil change
#41
03-25-2017 | 05:11 PM
#42
03-25-2017 | 05:27 PM
Veteran Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,478
Likes: 4,313
From: USA
Hi Geo G,
If you're just going to do a drain and fill, then I would recommend you stay with ZF Lifeguard 6 (LG6) rather than using Mercon SP (MSP), just in case there are any differences in additives or friction modifiers (we're not aware of any, but the Material Safety Data Sheets don't disclose some details). I think Sean's recommendation of having 7 quarts on hand is good for a drain and fill.
One of the lowest U.S. prices I've found for genuine ZF LG6 is $17.47 per liter, but you have to buy a case of 12 liters for $209.60 from California Transmission Supply Co. (thectsc.com):
ZF LifeGuard 8 - Case of 12 x 1L Container
Since a drain-and-fill leaves all the old fluid in the torque converter and other parts of the transmission, many owners do at least one drain-and-fill prior to changing the pan/filter so more of the old fluid is replaced. Two drains-and-fills prior to changing the pan/filter is even better, but requires 18-20 quarts of fluid.
Personally, the strategy I've adopted is to start with a complete flush via the cooler lines, then drain and preserve the (new) fluid, change the pan/filter and Mechatronic sleeve, and refill with the fluid you drained. This allows for a complete change of all the fluid in the transmission with 11-12 liters of new fluid.
I recently flushed a friend's '05 XJ8L with Mercon SP and its rough shifting smoothed out somewhat. After clearing the adaptations and reflashing the TCM his gearbox is running great on MSP. So don't be afraid of saving your money and going with MSP! I just don't know if it's prudent to mix LG6 and MSP, so if you go with MSP, I'd recommend the full flush or two drains-and-fills prior to dropping the pan and then refilling with another batch of fresh MSP.
Mercon SP is widely available for less than $10 per quart. Compare prices at your local auto parts stores.
I figured out a way to do the flush via the cooler lines by connecting rubber hoses to the ports on the side of the transmission, which avoids the mess of trying to catch the fluid that is powerfully ejected from the lower cooler line port on the side of the transmission. Photos to come.
Cheers,
Don
If you're just going to do a drain and fill, then I would recommend you stay with ZF Lifeguard 6 (LG6) rather than using Mercon SP (MSP), just in case there are any differences in additives or friction modifiers (we're not aware of any, but the Material Safety Data Sheets don't disclose some details). I think Sean's recommendation of having 7 quarts on hand is good for a drain and fill.
One of the lowest U.S. prices I've found for genuine ZF LG6 is $17.47 per liter, but you have to buy a case of 12 liters for $209.60 from California Transmission Supply Co. (thectsc.com):
ZF LifeGuard 8 - Case of 12 x 1L Container
Since a drain-and-fill leaves all the old fluid in the torque converter and other parts of the transmission, many owners do at least one drain-and-fill prior to changing the pan/filter so more of the old fluid is replaced. Two drains-and-fills prior to changing the pan/filter is even better, but requires 18-20 quarts of fluid.
Personally, the strategy I've adopted is to start with a complete flush via the cooler lines, then drain and preserve the (new) fluid, change the pan/filter and Mechatronic sleeve, and refill with the fluid you drained. This allows for a complete change of all the fluid in the transmission with 11-12 liters of new fluid.
I recently flushed a friend's '05 XJ8L with Mercon SP and its rough shifting smoothed out somewhat. After clearing the adaptations and reflashing the TCM his gearbox is running great on MSP. So don't be afraid of saving your money and going with MSP! I just don't know if it's prudent to mix LG6 and MSP, so if you go with MSP, I'd recommend the full flush or two drains-and-fills prior to dropping the pan and then refilling with another batch of fresh MSP.
Mercon SP is widely available for less than $10 per quart. Compare prices at your local auto parts stores.
I figured out a way to do the flush via the cooler lines by connecting rubber hoses to the ports on the side of the transmission, which avoids the mess of trying to catch the fluid that is powerfully ejected from the lower cooler line port on the side of the transmission. Photos to come.
Cheers,
Don
The following users liked this post:
Don B (03-25-2017)
#43
03-25-2017 | 05:44 PM
Veteran Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 1,758
The following users liked this post:
Don B (03-25-2017)
#44
03-25-2017 | 08:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 19,728
Likes: 13,651
From: Crossroads of America
Good catch on the wrong link, guys! I must have been on autopilot. The case of LG8 is listed right below the single liters of LG6.
Curiously, on the CTSC website they're showing LG8 in 12-liter cases but not LG6. Maybe another reason to go with Mercon SP?
Curiously, on the CTSC website they're showing LG8 in 12-liter cases but not LG6. Maybe another reason to go with Mercon SP?
Last edited by Don B; 03-25-2017 at 08:08 PM.
#45
04-03-2017 | 12:10 PM
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
Likes: 104
From: NorthWest Arkansas
A timely thread since I just this morning searched the X350 manual looking for the transmission dip stick and found there is none. My 2006 SV8, bought at 128K miles with unknown service history and which now has 137K miles, has exhibited no shifting problems. Should I be concerned? Is it smart enough to display a message or set a DTC if a problem should develop?
#46
04-03-2017 | 12:16 PM
Member
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 90
Likes: 34
From: Tucson, AZ
Hi
You should read up on this issue. Long story short, transmissions should be serviced roughly every 60-80K miles. Jaguar marketed the transmissions as 'service free for life' which means that somewhere between 150-200K the transmission may blow up from not being serviced. The 'for life' part was a lie.
There are many posts on how, what fluid to use, etc., but you should definitely pursue a flush or a drain and fill ASAP. Good luck.
You should read up on this issue. Long story short, transmissions should be serviced roughly every 60-80K miles. Jaguar marketed the transmissions as 'service free for life' which means that somewhere between 150-200K the transmission may blow up from not being serviced. The 'for life' part was a lie.
There are many posts on how, what fluid to use, etc., but you should definitely pursue a flush or a drain and fill ASAP. Good luck.
#47
04-03-2017 | 02:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 19,728
Likes: 13,651
From: Crossroads of America
A timely thread since I just this morning searched the X350 manual looking for the transmission dip stick and found there is none. My 2006 SV8, bought at 128K miles with unknown service history and which now has 137K miles, has exhibited no shifting problems. Should I be concerned? Is it smart enough to display a message or set a DTC if a problem should develop?
As TusconDave alluded, the transmissions were originally said to be "filled for life." But ZF, the German manufacturer of the 6HP26 transmission, subsequently revised its recommendation and now states that the fluid and pan/filter assembly should be replaced something like every 80,000 miles (?) or 8 years.
The only two fluids commonly available in the U.S. that you should consider are ZF Lifeguard 6 and Motorcraft Mercon SP.
You should also replace the sealing sleeve for the transmission electrical connector while the pan is removed, and many owners have found that at least some of the original pan screws break during removal, so be prepared to replace some or all of the screws. The newer screws have a larger and more robust head.
As TusconDave mentioned, there are lots of threads to provide guidance.
Cheers,
Don
Last edited by Don B; 04-05-2017 at 02:36 PM.
#48
04-04-2017 | 11:41 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
Likes: 104
From: NorthWest Arkansas
Hi Phil,
As TusconDave alluded, the transmissions were originally said to be "filled for life." But ZF, the German manufacturer of the 6HP26 transmission, subsequently revised its recommendation and now states that the fluid and pan/filter assembly should be replaced every 80,000 miles or 8 years.
The only two fluids commonly available in the U.S. that you should consider are ZF Lifeguard 6 and Motorcraft Mercon SP.
You should also replace the sealing sleeve for the transmission electrical connector while the pan is removed, and many owners have found that at least some of the original pan screws break during removal, so be prepared to replace some or all of the screws. The newer screws have a larger and more robust head.
As TusconDave mentioned, there are lots of threads to provide guidance.
Cheers,
Don
As TusconDave alluded, the transmissions were originally said to be "filled for life." But ZF, the German manufacturer of the 6HP26 transmission, subsequently revised its recommendation and now states that the fluid and pan/filter assembly should be replaced every 80,000 miles or 8 years.
The only two fluids commonly available in the U.S. that you should consider are ZF Lifeguard 6 and Motorcraft Mercon SP.
You should also replace the sealing sleeve for the transmission electrical connector while the pan is removed, and many owners have found that at least some of the original pan screws break during removal, so be prepared to replace some or all of the screws. The newer screws have a larger and more robust head.
As TusconDave mentioned, there are lots of threads to provide guidance.
Cheers,
Don
Of course after reading about it, yesterday I thought I heard a new engine speed related whine I had not heard before; wife thought it was from the front but it sounded to me like it was from over my left shoulder. Might be paranoia setting in.
Guess I'd have to drain some fluid to know what is in it before replacing or adding any. Seems there is always something new to learn about these beasts.
BTW, was the original clamp on the top radiator hose a spring type or a Jubilee? I have two Jubilees on mine and it has twice backed off enough to leak. The last time we were driving to a scheduled meeting and I thought it might be just a sensor problem when the low coolant warning came up but temperature on the UltraGauge remained normal. I kept driving and watching the temp until it finally rose to 130 F and I stopped and discovered the problem. Fortunately I had a gallon of coolant in the boot and found an auto parts store within a few miles to top it up the rest of the way. It hasn't backed off since, but now I check it more often.
#49
04-04-2017 | 01:04 PM
Veteran Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 1,758
The following users liked this post:
Don B (04-04-2017)
#50
04-04-2017 | 02:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 19,728
Likes: 13,651
From: Crossroads of America
Hi Phil,
Our radiator hose clamps are the spring type also, and there's a good reason. According to Pat Goss, the mechanic on the Motorweek television show, Jubilee or worm-drive clamps should never be used where the hose fits onto a plastic fitting. The reason he gave is that those clamps apply slightly less pressure under the screw housing, and over time the plastic hose fitting or nipple expands under the screw housing, leading to leaks and even deterioration of the plastic. Spring clamps apply more consistent pressure around their full circumference.
Since I had experienced this exact failure on the upper hose fitting of the original radiator in our '93 XJ40, Pat's explanation made sense to me. So I no longer replace spring clamps with Jubilees if the hose fits onto a plastic fitting, as on most modern radiators.
Cheers,
Don
Our radiator hose clamps are the spring type also, and there's a good reason. According to Pat Goss, the mechanic on the Motorweek television show, Jubilee or worm-drive clamps should never be used where the hose fits onto a plastic fitting. The reason he gave is that those clamps apply slightly less pressure under the screw housing, and over time the plastic hose fitting or nipple expands under the screw housing, leading to leaks and even deterioration of the plastic. Spring clamps apply more consistent pressure around their full circumference.
Since I had experienced this exact failure on the upper hose fitting of the original radiator in our '93 XJ40, Pat's explanation made sense to me. So I no longer replace spring clamps with Jubilees if the hose fits onto a plastic fitting, as on most modern radiators.
Cheers,
Don
The following 2 users liked this post by Don B:
jackra_1 (04-04-2017),
Partick the Cat (04-04-2017)
#51
04-04-2017 | 04:30 PM
Hi Phil,
As TusconDave alluded, the transmissions were originally said to be "filled for life." But ZF, the German manufacturer of the 6HP26 transmission, subsequently revised its recommendation and now states that the fluid and pan/filter assembly should be replaced every 80,000 miles or 8 years.
As TusconDave alluded, the transmissions were originally said to be "filled for life." But ZF, the German manufacturer of the 6HP26 transmission, subsequently revised its recommendation and now states that the fluid and pan/filter assembly should be replaced every 80,000 miles or 8 years.
The following users liked this post:
Don B (04-04-2017)
#52
04-04-2017 | 06:29 PM
Veteran Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,099
Likes: 643
From: Up, Planet Earth
The following users liked this post:
Don B (04-05-2017)
#53
04-04-2017 | 07:05 PM
Veteran Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 8,478
Likes: 4,313
From: USA
The following 2 users liked this post by Sean W:
Don B (04-05-2017),
Partick the Cat (04-05-2017)
#54
04-05-2017 | 01:39 PM
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
Likes: 104
From: NorthWest Arkansas
Hi Phil,
Our radiator hose clamps are the spring type also, and there's a good reason. According to Pat Goss, the mechanic on the Motorweek television show, Jubilee or worm-drive clamps should never be used where the hose fits onto a plastic fitting. The reason he gave is that those clamps apply slightly less pressure under the screw housing, and over time the plastic hose fitting or nipple expands under the screw housing, leading to leaks and even deterioration of the plastic. Spring clamps apply more consistent pressure around their full circumference.
Since I had experienced this exact failure on the upper hose fitting of the original radiator in our '93 XJ40, Pat's explanation made sense to me. So I no longer replace spring clamps with Jubilees if the hose fits onto a plastic fitting, as on most modern radiators.
Cheers, Don
Our radiator hose clamps are the spring type also, and there's a good reason. According to Pat Goss, the mechanic on the Motorweek television show, Jubilee or worm-drive clamps should never be used where the hose fits onto a plastic fitting. The reason he gave is that those clamps apply slightly less pressure under the screw housing, and over time the plastic hose fitting or nipple expands under the screw housing, leading to leaks and even deterioration of the plastic. Spring clamps apply more consistent pressure around their full circumference.
Since I had experienced this exact failure on the upper hose fitting of the original radiator in our '93 XJ40, Pat's explanation made sense to me. So I no longer replace spring clamps with Jubilees if the hose fits onto a plastic fitting, as on most modern radiators.
Cheers, Don
I suspected it needed a spring clamp, and now I know why. Anyone have a source and a size for the clamp? Ford dealer maybe?
I looked through my photos to see if the lower rad hose has a spring clamp (raining too hard outside today to crawl under) and found just this one photo. Is this the lower rad hose?
#55
04-05-2017 | 02:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 19,728
Likes: 13,651
From: Crossroads of America
The following 2 users liked this post by Don B:
philwarner (04-05-2017),
Sean W (04-05-2017)
#56
04-05-2017 | 03:48 PM
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 896
Likes: 104
From: NorthWest Arkansas
Both of the radiator hoses on my car are three piece units like the lower one in the drawing and they both have spring clamps on the non-radiator ends. I couldn't reach down quite far enough to feel the bottom clamp on the lower hose but did find a photo from when I replaced the stabilizer bar bushings that shows just a ****** of thicker metal on the lower hose that is possibly a spring clamp. I'll crawl under when the rain stops to be sure, but it appears I just need one for the top hose. Too bad I didn't think about that when I was replacing the water pump(s) and thermostat.
The following users liked this post:
Don B (04-05-2017)
#57
04-15-2017 | 02:07 AM
Senior Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 135
Likes: 6
From: Green Bay Wisconsin
Don do you have the pictures to do a full MSP flush. you mention blowing out the lines. does that get what is in the TQ converter also? Recommend pressure? I'm about to order the parts but am torn between MSP full drain or the 7 qt pan drop only. I'm 130k XJR, been having a slow leak and it seems like its impacting the shifting.
#59
04-15-2017 | 06:56 AM
Veteran Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 6,264
Likes: 1,758
You need to look at a more relevant video for the ZF transmission that you have.
The procedure includes filling the transmission at the correct temperature until fluid starts to drip back out of the plug hole when the car is on the level with the engine running.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...4&action=click
Look at the above.
It is possible to do a complete flush as I have done using the transmission cooler lines.
The procedure includes filling the transmission at the correct temperature until fluid starts to drip back out of the plug hole when the car is on the level with the engine running.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...4&action=click
Look at the above.
It is possible to do a complete flush as I have done using the transmission cooler lines.
Last edited by jackra_1; 04-15-2017 at 07:00 AM.
The following users liked this post:
Don B (04-15-2017)
#60
04-15-2017 | 10:11 AM
There's no real problem with only doing a drain and refill rather than a full flush (unless the fluid is really old or well over the recommended milage) provided you remember that afterwards the fluid in the transmission, being a mixture of old and new, already has an effective milage of roughly 1/3rd the milage of the old fluid had ... and you will need to do the next fluid change correspondingly early i.e. at about 2/3rds the advised limit of 50-75,000 miles.
E.g I had mine done at 78,000 so I reckon the next change will be due after another 30-50,000
E.g I had mine done at 78,000 so I reckon the next change will be due after another 30-50,000
Last edited by Partick the Cat; 04-15-2017 at 10:17 AM.