No Spark, No Start
#1
No Spark, No Start
Hey everyone,
I bought a 2002 Super V8 2 months ago in fairly rough shape; running rough, scratches and dents, and the like. I fixed it up and running smooth and started some minor body work. 3 weeks ago, it quit on me (and in a downtown parking garage of all places)! Now I've spent my fair share of time scouring these forums for a fix and I cannot find a resolution that has worked for me... This is my story:
I had taken the car to a Cars and Coffee event, ran a few errands around town, then parked it in the parking garage while I grabbed lunch downtown. At this point, I have no check engine light. When I went to start it up to go home, it just cranked. And cranked and cranked and cranked... While I was there, I checked all the fuses visually, swapped ignition related relays with know working ones, and poked the Schrader value (which gave a healthy squirt); Everything there was good. I thought it was possible I flooded the engine cranking it that much, but cranking with the gas pedal to the floor did nothing for my case.
I got a ride home, read about bore wash, went back to the garage and pulled all the plugs. Gave my cylinders a dabble of oil and BOOM! Nothing :/ I was optimistic in that my SYMPTOMS were the same as bore wash, but the CAUSE was wildly different and not applicable to me. Think about it; I drove it around all morning, I promise you the engine was fully warmed up.
Welp, I bit the bullet and got it towed home. There, I double-triple checked my fuses with a multimeter; good. I recharged the battery (not because it was dead but figured after all the cranking it was probably leaning towards the low side). I also checked for spark and found NO SPARK! Aha! Now that I found the issue, I could surely find the solution.
I scoured these forums until I found exactly what I was looking for... The Crankshaft Position Sensor. A bad CSPS will not provide good info to the ECM and the ECM will not send power to the plugs. Again, putting all my eggs in one basket, I replaced the CSPS with no luck. Still cranks, still has no spark.
Over the past days, I have continued to look on the forum, youtube, google, anything that could help. I haven't found what I'm looking for, but I HAVE seen how you all react to a "my car won't start" forum, so let me get the jump on you:
- I have read this: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...d-first-30792/
I get to step 3 and it says "Check for spark. If you have no spark, check your fuses and relays. If you still have no spark, sorry, can't help"
- People keep talking about "Gus's No Start Procedure" but every link I have found has been broken. Does anyone have a PDF version?
- I have also extensively read this: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...o-spark-71752/
In post #2, a member says to check for voltage at the coils with the key in the run position. In this case, there was 12V. Now in my case, I have 4V. This is worst case scenario. 12V and I could move on, 0V and I replace the wires from ECM to coil, but I have 4V.
So... anyone have good next steps for me? I've been on JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource trying to understand which pins correlate to which coil wires with the thought that I test to see if I can get 12V from the source (ECM) and see if I'm losing anything before the target (coil). I don't know. I'm really lost. This was supposed to be a fun summer car, but now I feel over my head
Help me fall in love with the cat again!
2002 Super V8 (X308, Supercharged 4.0L)
(AFAIK it's just a supercharged VDP)
I bought a 2002 Super V8 2 months ago in fairly rough shape; running rough, scratches and dents, and the like. I fixed it up and running smooth and started some minor body work. 3 weeks ago, it quit on me (and in a downtown parking garage of all places)! Now I've spent my fair share of time scouring these forums for a fix and I cannot find a resolution that has worked for me... This is my story:
I had taken the car to a Cars and Coffee event, ran a few errands around town, then parked it in the parking garage while I grabbed lunch downtown. At this point, I have no check engine light. When I went to start it up to go home, it just cranked. And cranked and cranked and cranked... While I was there, I checked all the fuses visually, swapped ignition related relays with know working ones, and poked the Schrader value (which gave a healthy squirt); Everything there was good. I thought it was possible I flooded the engine cranking it that much, but cranking with the gas pedal to the floor did nothing for my case.
I got a ride home, read about bore wash, went back to the garage and pulled all the plugs. Gave my cylinders a dabble of oil and BOOM! Nothing :/ I was optimistic in that my SYMPTOMS were the same as bore wash, but the CAUSE was wildly different and not applicable to me. Think about it; I drove it around all morning, I promise you the engine was fully warmed up.
Welp, I bit the bullet and got it towed home. There, I double-triple checked my fuses with a multimeter; good. I recharged the battery (not because it was dead but figured after all the cranking it was probably leaning towards the low side). I also checked for spark and found NO SPARK! Aha! Now that I found the issue, I could surely find the solution.
I scoured these forums until I found exactly what I was looking for... The Crankshaft Position Sensor. A bad CSPS will not provide good info to the ECM and the ECM will not send power to the plugs. Again, putting all my eggs in one basket, I replaced the CSPS with no luck. Still cranks, still has no spark.
Over the past days, I have continued to look on the forum, youtube, google, anything that could help. I haven't found what I'm looking for, but I HAVE seen how you all react to a "my car won't start" forum, so let me get the jump on you:
- I have read this: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...d-first-30792/
I get to step 3 and it says "Check for spark. If you have no spark, check your fuses and relays. If you still have no spark, sorry, can't help"
- People keep talking about "Gus's No Start Procedure" but every link I have found has been broken. Does anyone have a PDF version?
- I have also extensively read this: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...o-spark-71752/
In post #2, a member says to check for voltage at the coils with the key in the run position. In this case, there was 12V. Now in my case, I have 4V. This is worst case scenario. 12V and I could move on, 0V and I replace the wires from ECM to coil, but I have 4V.
So... anyone have good next steps for me? I've been on JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource trying to understand which pins correlate to which coil wires with the thought that I test to see if I can get 12V from the source (ECM) and see if I'm losing anything before the target (coil). I don't know. I'm really lost. This was supposed to be a fun summer car, but now I feel over my head
Help me fall in love with the cat again!
2002 Super V8 (X308, Supercharged 4.0L)
(AFAIK it's just a supercharged VDP)
#2
The coils get power from a source X and the power is " sitting " on them at all times
The ECU provides individual grounds ( 8 ) to give a spark
See page 61 and ignition coil relay location see page 37 and 2 fuses # 18 and # 14 ( this # 14 requires the EMS CONTROL RELAY to close ) both engine management fuse box
jagxj2002.pdf (jagrepair.com)
The ECU provides individual grounds ( 8 ) to give a spark
See page 61 and ignition coil relay location see page 37 and 2 fuses # 18 and # 14 ( this # 14 requires the EMS CONTROL RELAY to close ) both engine management fuse box
jagxj2002.pdf (jagrepair.com)
Last edited by Parker 7; 07-11-2024 at 12:23 AM.
#3
I know this isn’t diagnosing per se, it’s about experience. I’ve run across a handful of times that the main engine electrical connector by the firewall that has a 10mm bolt in the middle of it needs to be loosened all the way (after you disconnect the battery) and opened up for evaluation. Clean, straight pins is a must. Be careful upon reinstall to not bend the pins. Micro-corrosion is also definitely a thing. It’s also a good time to check out all the grounds in the engine bay and clean as necessary. I think of it as a spare tire, forgotten about until you need it.
#5
I know this isn’t diagnosing per se, it’s about experience. I’ve run across a handful of times that the main engine electrical connector by the firewall that has a 10mm bolt in the middle of it needs to be loosened all the way (after you disconnect the battery) and opened up for evaluation. Clean, straight pins is a must. Be careful upon reinstall to not bend the pins. Micro-corrosion is also definitely a thing. It’s also a good time to check out all the grounds in the engine bay and clean as necessary. I think of it as a spare tire, forgotten about until you need it.
#6
Jim, the troubleshooting pdf was great, but ultimately didn't get me anywhere. The .docx looked promising, but I can only read about half of each page; the formatting is wonky. Any chance you could post/PM me another file?
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