Hi All,

I haven't posted here in a while, but still drop in to read from time to time. My 2004 XJR has been sitting unused for about six months now. The last time I used it, I noticed a massive coolant puddle underneath it. I got it home and parked it and figured I would attempt to repair it this summer when the weather was nicer. I don't have a garage that I can pull the car into, so I have to do the work on my driveway. The summer is rapidly passing, and I need to get this fixed before I end up working in the cold and rain again.

Based upon all, I've read here over the years, I'm assuming that this is likely a valley hose rupture but I don't know for sure. How would I tell?

I have read through the "a journey into the valley" thread on here in its entirety and I've also read the Google doc that was linked to in that thread.

• There are about 13 part numbers listed in that Google doc, do I need to order them all?
• Should I start taking everything apart first and then see what's needed? As I said earlier, I'm not certain it's the valley hose that's the problem, but knowing this era of Jag's propensity for the hose to leak, I'm speculating that's the issue.
• Is anyone aware if the list of part numbers in the google doc is still good?
• Is there other maintenance that I should be doing at the same time I remove all these parts? I don't think the supercharger oil has ever been changed.

I'm fairly handy when it comes to maintenance, but this does seem like a rather large job, and a little overwhelming. From all I've read here over the years, I'm guessing this is about a $3-4K job if I take it to a shop. That doesn't leave me much option, but to do it myself.

I'd greatly appreciate any advice you can offer on doing this job. Also, if you know of any changes to the part numbers, please let me know.

I definitely need some pointers here.

Thanks.

 

If I thought it could be done for 3 - 4k, I'd jump at it! No, I am actually getting a good deal of satisfaction getting it done with the help of the exquisite souls on this site. I'm waiting for a hose on Thursday. I plan to crank her this weekend.

I decided to replace all of the available hoses. You will see that a goodly number of your hoses are ready to let go. DO NOT REMOVE THE HOSE CONNECTING THE FUEL RAILS!! As to if it is the valley hose, just remove all the plastic & it should be apparent if it is the valley hose.

I saved over 50% on hoses at Harper. Don't let the site turn you off with high shipping costs. Talk to Carl; all of my hoses, etc. were shipped for $50.00.

I also replaced cam covers & water pump along the way. Drilled a recalcitrant bolt, etc.

I will post my list of hoses & gaskets.

I actually got out for a sail today now that the car is close! Of course, I noticed engine work needing...

Carpe diem,

 

Yes please! 👍🏻🙏🏻

 

Hi Steve,

Thanks for getting back to me. I haven't heard of Harper before, do you have a link? I'd really appreciate seeing your parts list when you are done. I took the parts list from the journey into the valley thread and searched them all on the jaguar of palm beach site. Three of the parts are listed as no longer available and I'm already up to $422. Yikes!

I'm glad you were able to get out on the water. We live in the perfect place for it.

 

When I get to my office.

 

Dunno if this is the one?

https://parts.harperjaguar.com/

With a Rover as well as the Jag, I use "many" suppliers amongst 'the usual suspects'.

Not just price shopping and how close to OEM - or NOT... As our vehicles age-out of the higher volume category, it is becoming increasingly rare that any ONE of them has ALL the parts needed in stock, if even a third to half of them.

I have been putting "spares" aside for several years, already. A complete NEW Wabco compressor sat for over five years, just went into service. I have an ABS system cached as well...

Cooling system plastic parts I buy two or three at a go.

Sod's Law sez any part you already have spares for in local-stock, won't fail.

I should buy a second Rover, complete, but experience sez those need TRIPLE redundant backup.

Sod was a freakin' optimist!!!

 

When I get to my office.

 

If you have a coolant leak and it's significant then the coolant will run down the bck of the engine

 

Nah.. If it runs down the back, is warmed and spread by bell housing and exhaust so it seldom leaves evidence on the ground?

That's a MINOR leak.

'Significant' leaks also run down the front, wet the serpentine belt badly enough to rob the power-steering pump at carpark-slow maneuvering speeds ......and the steering goes really hard!

Jaguar designers didn't try to PREVENT leaks. They only made them "stealthy" and hard to find so the motorcar could PRETEND to not have plumbing problems.

Akin to farting in a gentlemen's club and counting on all hands ignoring it.. because the fartee is a famous person and properly attired in morning - or evening - dress.

You'd have to ken the Sassenach?

Before you start.. check the tiny inlet hose to the header tank, next to the bleeder screw. Had one perish right there whilst the hose looked so GOOD I ***-u-me-ed the fiting to the header tank was cracked, bought a new header tank.

Perished hose became obvious when I started to pull the tank. New hose fabbed from ignorant coil stock as sold by the foot. New header tank is still in my JLR spares closet.

Might rank as the fastest, easiest, and cheapest fix to JLR plumbing as ever was? Every now and then even a deaf hog wins the lottery?

 

Hi MrWhite,

I use an endoscope to confirm valley hose leaks. Inexpensive USB endoscopes ("borescopes," "inspection cameras") that use your phone as the video monitor are available on Amazon.

Valley hose leaks, no matter how serious, almost always leak coolant down the rear of the engine and onto the bellhousing. They rarely leak onto the front of the engine because of the coolant outlet tower and high ledge in the block casting at the front (at the right in the photo below). I think once I encountered a hose that ruptured near the front of the engine and sprayed a little coolant forward where it could be seen in the recess beside the supercharger.



Recently, our member RichardS found that the 4.2L in his X150 was dripping coolant from the transmission bellhousing access hole, and ultimately discovered the coolant was leaking around the diamond-shaped rubber plug in the valley of the block, down into the recess of the block and out the rear into the bellhousing. See his thread here:

Coolant Leak Inside Torque Converter Bellhousing

It seems like every time I have done a valley hose job it has been a challenge to source all of the correct hoses. The Jaguar parts diagrams are not always correct by VIN, the hose names are often not helpful, and the hoses you need appear on multiple parts diagrams so it's hard to tell if you've identified them all. The part numbers changed over time, and of course, they are different for the S/C and N/A engines. My advice would be to get your critical valley hoses from a Jaguar dealership and not trust any aftermarket parts or parts suppliers for those. Parts that can be replaced without removing the supercharger can be sourced elsewhere (e.g. water pump, supercharger & accessory drive belts, etc.)

One part that is often missing from parts lists is the brake booster vacuum hose connector at the induction elbow. If yours isn't broken now, it probably will be after you disconnect the vacuum pipe from the elbow. You usually don't need to replace the brass bushing, but the plastic insert is usually already broken or breaks during the disconnection process, and there's a small rubber O-ring inside the bushing that you can swap. They come in a kit, C2S15816:





Cheers,

Don

 

ORDER #19969
Hello,

The following items have shipped via FedEx. Your tracking number(s):XXXX
Part Number

Part Name

Price

Quantity

Total

C2C19596

Drain Hose

$49.34

1

$49.34

AJ811771

Vent Hose

$46.26

1

$46.26

C2C1984

Heater Hose

$23.74

1

$23.74

C2C10872

Return Tube

$45.37

1

$45.37

C2C16212

Upper Hose

$105.94

1

$105.94

C2C10866

Lower Hose

$86.79

1

$86.79

AJ811638

Hose

$10.80

1

$10.80

C2C18160

Inlet Hose

$52.86

1

$52.86

AJ88559

Tube Gasket

$6.21

1

$6.21

AJ88560

Valve Gasket

$6.21

1

$6.21

C2C18161

Upper Return Hose

$71.80

1

$71.80

AJ89746

Engine Coolant Hose

$21.30

1

$21.30

AJ88507

Inlet Hose

$15.46

1

$15.46

aj811758

Engine Coolant Hose

$11.55

1

$11.55

Subtotal: $553.63

Estimated Shipping to 98005 via Freight Shipping: $50.00

Total: $603.63

Add to that: C2C12952

The link to Harper Jaguar is the one that Thermite sent. They have 2 parts departments - one in the store & the other online. They are located in Knoxville, TN.

Carl Stephenson works on the online side; he is the young fellow helping me. I have never had anyone more conscientious, capable & thorough. The only difficulty with the online store is the shipping quotes. The single hose that I am awaiting to complete the project quoted over $600 to ship just the one hose! However, Carl does a great job of getting it right.

Carl Stephenson

Parts Advisor

Harper Jaguar, Alfa Romeo, Maserati

cstephenson@harperdealerships.com

865-243-3220

I ordered the water pump & cam cover gaskets & 6 other gaskets from other sources.. But all of the hoses and the balance of the gaskets and the part Don B mentioned, I ordered from Harper.

After I started, I discovered that the defective hose was not the valley hose. It was actually on the front & tied into the top of the block, but it spewed the coolant so that it appeared to be coming from the valley until I started pulling things off. I had the time & didn’t need the car and thought that this was as good a time as any to replace hoses. However, it is a LOT OF WORK. If I had been against the clock, I would have replaced just the defective hose and done the rest later.

 

To Don B's point about parts. There is one longish hose on the front that I hadn't ordered; it connects the auxilliary water pump to the radiator. I went to the Harper site & found what appeared to be the correct hose. The site checks to see if it is the correct hose and, according to the Jag site, it was. However, the following illustrates the need to talk to someone like Carl. Carl said that while they appear to be similar, 12952 was specific to my VIN. It was $30 bucks more than the one that I would swear was the same. Maybe it was, but I ordered the one Carl recommended because he had my trust in our previous experiences. Also, I have replaced hoses that can be replaced without going int the valley. If you do find that it is the valley hose, you do not need to replace everything that I have.

"C2C1976 & C2C12952 appear to be the same hose? Your site shows them, I think, to be identical and they both are said to work on my car. If you are sure that I should 12952, I will. Just reaffirm."

 

Mr. White,

If you decide to go forward with this, I trust you will check my list with others. Also, it does not include gaskets.Spend as much time as you can reading the many excellent threads. Make sure they are for the 04 XJR and check your specific vin with the dealer.

Tools: From my experience, just about every tool recommended on the various threads is essential, especially the little ones!

Take many, many pictures along the way. I think all that you need are somewhere in the forum, but it really helped me to have my own.. However, I couldn't have made it to this point without the many photos and suggestions from Thomas, Peter Meiron, Don B, Thermite, Zalty, etc. etc.

Best of luck with it, whatever you decide to do!

Steve S.

 

So which one from the @04Xjrsteve 's list is the hard-to-find valley hose please?

Also, just for future seekers (and better discoverability), this seems to be an excellent post from 2015 by @dsetter on the very topic: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...valley-134108/

 

When I read the first post, I came in here intending to say not to assume it's the valley hose. It's VERY hard to visually see where anything is coming from, as you found for yourself when finding the actual leak during your teardown.

I went through this on my XJ8 last summer, which started with a cracked radiator tank (never visually found, but determined by a pressure test at a shop.) Did the radiator, which was a serious chunk of work, and then the pressure tank spilt. Replaced that, then found the water pump leaking. That's when I decided to end the cascade of next-weakest-link failures and overhaul the entire system, all hoses. The valley hose was the most difficult to get to, requiring removal of the intake manifold, but it was also the only hose that visibly showed that it was near end-of-life, being seriously ballooned in the short, fat part. Still, all new hoses now, and it has hasn't lost a drop of coolant in months and months. It's so much nicer to drive without smelling that small leak and waiting for it to become a Niagara Falls leak.

 

Replace both knock sensors while you have everything exposed. Yes, another expense - but if one of these go you will be taking everything apart to access.

 

I second the good parts service at Harper’s.

 

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. Your input is greatly appreciated. Sorry for going silent for a day, work got very busy yesterday.

Steve, I took the list of parts from dsetter's original 2015 post and searched for them all on Harpers. I added them all to the cart with the following exceptions:

AJ82340 - Harpers says this is the wrong gasket for my vin and recommended AJ88559 instead. I've added there recommendation instead.
C2C18181 - I think this might have been a typo in the original post. C2C18161 might be the correct part number. This second part number was one of the hoses from your list, so I'm guessing that's right.
C2S15816 - This was on dsetter's original list and is also the part that Don B mentioned. It doesn't appear to be available from Harpers. I found it on jagbits.com for about $30. I'll ask Carl about it when I call Harpers.

I then went and added all of the parts from your list. some of them were redundant with the previous list, but by combining both I think I have a fairly comprehensive list.

I also added C2C37063 which I believe is the main serpentine belt. I have another belt at home already which I believe is the supercharger belt (I ordered it years ago and can't remember). That one is a Gates K060900.

So far, I'm up to about $840 in just hoses and gaskets. Yikes!

I've just ordered an inspection camera / bore scope from amazon so that I can have a look around and see if I can identify the source of the leak before I order a whole bunch of parts.

Below are the parts I've added to my cart on Harpers:

The second and third from the last are the similar part that you mentioned in one of your posts, I'll probably just get the one you did. I'm not sure that I want to order all of this, we'll see what the camera shows in a few days.

 

Pleased that the info was helpful. I would follow Don B's wisdom and establish where the leak is first. The endoscope should help with that. Recently, I learned that the endoscope has a dial to adjust the lighting & since it has been much more useful. Also, I noticed that the hose attaching with the peculiar clip to the coolant reservoir looks almost new - possibly a different polymer? Since I have a new one, I will replace, but I don't think it necessary. Host is proposing another round; got to run. Keep us posted! Steve S.

 

Well, I started taking things apart today.... and they're not going well. I'm a bit stuck. I decided not to order all the hoses, and to wait to see what is actually in need of replacement.

I got the air shield and radiator splash shield off the bottom of the car. Some of those bolts were really rusty and one even had to be cut with a dremel so that I could use a big flat head screwdriver to back it out. After looking at the bottom side of the engine, I can't see any evidence of a leak at the back of the engine. It has been months since it drained out, but I figured I'd be able to see evidence of bright orange coolant even if dried. It looks to me like the leak is on the front of the engine. However, that area looks oily so I don't know. Could be a mix of oil and coolant.

I've removed the coolant expansion tank, the air intake/ filter housing, and the radiator fan and shroud.

I removed the wiper arms, but I cannot get the plastic cover off. I think that part is called the scuttle. There is some sort of long clip all along the bottom edge of the windshield and I can't figure out how to get it to release. I don't want to force it and risk breaking anything. I looked it up in the service manual, but it just says to remove the wiper arms and all the plastic clips and then remove it. How do I remove this part?

Also, I used a breaker bar to release the serpentine belt for the supercharger. However, I can't get the belt to remove. The tensioner pulley is so close to the pulley behind it that I can't slip the belt through the gap. How do you get it off?





I drained the radiator, but when I started disconnecting some of the hoses, coolant still went everywhere.



So far, this is the only hose that looks like it needs replacing (it is bulging where it connects to what I think is the thermostat housing):





I've left it here for the day. A little worried that i may be getting in over my head.

Your help and suggestions are, as always, much appreciated.