No power to the front wheels
#1
No power to the front wheels
I have owned my x-type for 2 years now, it sits more in the garage than it spends on the highway. my truck broke down, and i had to drive my jag today and to top it off, there is a fresh powdery 4 inches of snow on the roads. I had heard that these cars were terrific in the slick stuff, so i gave it a whirl. I left my house and it seems to go pretty well until i lost traction. only the rear wheels spin no matter what situation I'm in, going forwards or in reverse it still sits and spins but on the back wheels, if i take off easy and then lay into it. it still only spins the rear tires. no unusual noises, vibrations, or strange happenings at all. who knows how long its been like this. i have never driven it on anything other than dry pavement. what the hell is the reason my AWD 3.0 is a 2 wheel drive?
#2
Garrin, for the front wheels to not have any power, that would be leading me to believe you have broke something in the transfer case. That is the only way that it can happen unless you have 2 broken CV shafts. Then you would be hearing very loud thumps any time the car moved as the CV shafts destroyed the underside of your car from a 5 pound pipe swinging around uncontrollably.
#3
Thanks Chris that's not what i wanted to hear! But unfortunately that is also what i was thinking, do these cars have an encoder motor that activates the front drive under slipping like an SUV with auto AWD? what i was thinking from the diagrams and photos that i could find was actually a dry transfer case that may have had some moisture in it and rusted the VC to where it wouldn't actuate when it should. I have not checked the T-case fluid yet, but I would suspect that its empty like most others. whats the fluid type that goes in it so i can be ready to pull it out?
***and generally (i would think) that if the t-case took a dump, that the front would stay active, and the rear would freewheel, not the other way around, I would image this to be a front wheel drive car with rear assist under slipping like most all wheel drive systems, but from what i can find these cars are actually built on the same principle as a 4x4 truck where the rear is then live axle until you (or the computer or in this case spring driven clutch in the VC) actuate the front axle....***
***and generally (i would think) that if the t-case took a dump, that the front would stay active, and the rear would freewheel, not the other way around, I would image this to be a front wheel drive car with rear assist under slipping like most all wheel drive systems, but from what i can find these cars are actually built on the same principle as a 4x4 truck where the rear is then live axle until you (or the computer or in this case spring driven clutch in the VC) actuate the front axle....***
Last edited by GarrinChilders; 01-29-2010 at 07:36 PM.
#4
Garrin, there is no actuation motor in our transfer case. All is controlled via the viscous coupling. It is possible that you have lost all the lube in the transfer case and you simply lost the fluid in the coupler.
As for fluid in the transfer case, I would pull out the drain plug, let anything that is in there drain out, then refill with 500 ml of 75W-140 full synthetic gear lube. You need to use full synthetic. It will run about $18 for a 1 quart bottle. As for getting the lube into the transfer case, if you have issues, let me know. I have a trick or two for you.
If I remember right, our cars are actually a RWD car with front assist. Our cars tend to transfer more power to the front up to a point. Granted, there is a slight difference in the amount of power that is shared between the front and back depending on the year of your vehicle. The 02/03's had more of a 50/50 split, vice the older ones doing more of a 40/60 split. This results in the earlier ones being slightly better in the snow than the older ones.
As for fluid in the transfer case, I would pull out the drain plug, let anything that is in there drain out, then refill with 500 ml of 75W-140 full synthetic gear lube. You need to use full synthetic. It will run about $18 for a 1 quart bottle. As for getting the lube into the transfer case, if you have issues, let me know. I have a trick or two for you.
If I remember right, our cars are actually a RWD car with front assist. Our cars tend to transfer more power to the front up to a point. Granted, there is a slight difference in the amount of power that is shared between the front and back depending on the year of your vehicle. The 02/03's had more of a 50/50 split, vice the older ones doing more of a 40/60 split. This results in the earlier ones being slightly better in the snow than the older ones.
#6
Its an 05 withOUT DSC. it must have been dry and frozen, because i put it in the garage and let it thaw all night and drove it tonight and the damn thing spun all 4 wheels. but im not crazy i had people watch me yesterday in all types of conditions, and it was for sure ONLY spinning the back two wheels, and it wasn't alternating from one side to the other like a limited slip, it was spinning both rears every time like the car was off the ground.
#7
Trending Topics
#9
Took my 2004 3.0 AWD in for the same thing...
...and the dealer told me there's nothing wrong with it. The all wheel drive system doesn't transfer any power to the front unless you're driving over a certain speed (about 20 MPH). I had the same frustration in the snow in Kansas when my front wheels weren't spinning.
#10
Guys,,,, the x-type gives 60% of torque to the rear wheels.There MUST be a centre differential in ANY awd car, and this has a fixed division of torque. So if the front and rear wheels are on the same surface, the rears will spin first. There is no magic to this.
Then if the car has a limited slip centre diff (in early xtypes it happens to be a viscous coupling that acts to be a slip limiter) (also btw, it is RARE for any truck to have a LS centre diff) (rucks can have a LOCKED centre diff), some of the torque will be diverted to the non-spinning wheel. ( all the sales crap about putting all the torque to one corner is a bunch of malarky) it puts all the available torque, much less than ALL that the engine has. Where does the energy all go? well it heats up the spinning tire, and massively heats up the viscous coupling)
Either way, The very first thing to consider is HOW MUCH TRACTION DO YOUR TIRES HAVE?) if you are not driving on snow tires the wheels will spin easily and the driveline will not be taxed enough to put any torque on the front wheels. It is normal for ANY awd car to spin one wheel if you dont have good traction. Traction comes from the tires, not the awd.
If you want to test if power is getting to the front wheels, put the front wheels on a slippery spot, and the rear ones on something grippy, pull the handbrake, and you will see the front wheels spin.
Then if the car has a limited slip centre diff (in early xtypes it happens to be a viscous coupling that acts to be a slip limiter) (also btw, it is RARE for any truck to have a LS centre diff) (rucks can have a LOCKED centre diff), some of the torque will be diverted to the non-spinning wheel. ( all the sales crap about putting all the torque to one corner is a bunch of malarky) it puts all the available torque, much less than ALL that the engine has. Where does the energy all go? well it heats up the spinning tire, and massively heats up the viscous coupling)
Either way, The very first thing to consider is HOW MUCH TRACTION DO YOUR TIRES HAVE?) if you are not driving on snow tires the wheels will spin easily and the driveline will not be taxed enough to put any torque on the front wheels. It is normal for ANY awd car to spin one wheel if you dont have good traction. Traction comes from the tires, not the awd.
If you want to test if power is getting to the front wheels, put the front wheels on a slippery spot, and the rear ones on something grippy, pull the handbrake, and you will see the front wheels spin.
Last edited by jimmy; 02-03-2010 at 08:33 AM.
#11
Early X-types had a viscous coupling, but due to problems with the transfer gears failing/breaking up, it was removed and substituted with a solid (steel) link and (presumably) a fixed distribution of torque front-to-rear. There was an article in the UK Jaguar Enthusiast Club magazine about a firm that rebuilt a lot of these boxes where this was mentioned. It even had photos of the failed parts.
#12
The torque split is fixed by the planetary differential it is set to 60-40.
the VC connects the front and rear output together, so they cant spin independantly. I have had the TC apart several times, and the VC just pulls off, and that removed the limited slip action.
THere is no fancy torque division.
the VC connects the front and rear output together, so they cant spin independantly. I have had the TC apart several times, and the VC just pulls off, and that removed the limited slip action.
THere is no fancy torque division.
The following users liked this post:
Mike:P (12-21-2011)
#13
Interesting and timely thread. I have an 04 X-Type Sport. Two summers ago the dealer replaced the transfer case at 52K but did it under warranty. The car now has 75K.
Long story, but I moved and am now living in DC and we have been hit hard with snow. I have been stuck twice just trying to get out of the driveway. The car is only driving the rear wheels when I am stuck. I have been able to break free by putting liberal amounts of kitty litter under the rear tires. I am afraid this may mean transfer case which I doubt they will cover. If the power is split 60 front and 40 rear then I assume the front tires should always be driven.
Based upon the feedback on this thread it sure points to the transfer case. I sure hope not as this would be the third one in my car in 75K miles. The vast majority of my mileage is highway so I know it is not an abuse issue.
Oh well ... let it snow, let it snow, let it snow ... 48 inches of new snow since last Friday UGH!!!!
Long story, but I moved and am now living in DC and we have been hit hard with snow. I have been stuck twice just trying to get out of the driveway. The car is only driving the rear wheels when I am stuck. I have been able to break free by putting liberal amounts of kitty litter under the rear tires. I am afraid this may mean transfer case which I doubt they will cover. If the power is split 60 front and 40 rear then I assume the front tires should always be driven.
Based upon the feedback on this thread it sure points to the transfer case. I sure hope not as this would be the third one in my car in 75K miles. The vast majority of my mileage is highway so I know it is not an abuse issue.
Oh well ... let it snow, let it snow, let it snow ... 48 inches of new snow since last Friday UGH!!!!
#15
#17
Does anyone know how the transfer case of a 2002 would act if the viscous coupler were going out? Could it produce a strong, shuddering vibration, felt mainly in the steering wheel, as you accelerate between 40-45 mph, but only after driving for a few minutes? I am going nuts trying to figure out what is causing that problem in my kitten.
#18
Early X-types had a viscous coupling, but due to problems with the transfer gears failing/breaking up, it was removed and substituted with a solid (steel) link and (presumably) a fixed distribution of torque front-to-rear. There was an article in the UK Jaguar Enthusiast Club magazine about a firm that rebuilt a lot of these boxes where this was mentioned. It even had photos of the failed parts.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MC36
US Lower Atlantic
0
09-01-2015 08:34 PM
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)