'02 X-Type 3.0 misfires, but runs perfectly on an empty tank
#1
'02 X-Type 3.0 misfires, but runs perfectly on an empty tank
Hi everyone, newish user here. I recently rescued a 2002 X-Type from being hauled off to a junkyard, and have been slowly working through all of its issues and quirks. So far, I've done the following:
- Replaced water pump, belt, and WP tensioner
- New spark plugs
- New battery and battery cables
- Fabricated wire harnesses for all 6 ignition coils
- Replaced all vacuum lines, IMT o-rings, upper intake gaskets, and PCV hose
- New O2 sensors all around
- New ABS harnesses in the front
- New ignition coils are in bound
So far, it's driveable, but it still has a misfiring issue on Cylinders 1 and 4. This causes a semi-regular flashing CEL and "Cruise Control Not Available" message, along with the 3k RPM limiter. However, this goes away completely when the gas tank is on E. Not almost E, but all the way with the gas light on E. While I'd like to solve the issue entirely (hence the inbound coils), I am absolutely baffled as to what could be correcting the problem. I've observed this behavior through 4 separate gas refills, and so far it is 100% consistent in that I can haul *** and redline it no problem when the tank is bone dry, but as soon as I put so much as a couple gallons in, its right back to limp-home mode. I've never seen anything like this in any other car I've owned or driven, and google hasn't helped at all. I just want to figure out if there's anything in the fuel system that I should keep an eye on, or if this is just some kind of fluke, since I've been scratching my head over this for a couple weeks now. Just in case it makes a difference:
- It doesn't make a difference if I'm alone or have passengers, the behavior is still the same, so I've factored out the weight difference.
- It doesn't make a difference if its 87 or 93 octane in the tank
- The car did sit for about 5 months without so much as a start up before I got to drive it home
If anyone can shed some light or even point me in remotely the right direction, I'd be super grateful.
- Replaced water pump, belt, and WP tensioner
- New spark plugs
- New battery and battery cables
- Fabricated wire harnesses for all 6 ignition coils
- Replaced all vacuum lines, IMT o-rings, upper intake gaskets, and PCV hose
- New O2 sensors all around
- New ABS harnesses in the front
- New ignition coils are in bound
So far, it's driveable, but it still has a misfiring issue on Cylinders 1 and 4. This causes a semi-regular flashing CEL and "Cruise Control Not Available" message, along with the 3k RPM limiter. However, this goes away completely when the gas tank is on E. Not almost E, but all the way with the gas light on E. While I'd like to solve the issue entirely (hence the inbound coils), I am absolutely baffled as to what could be correcting the problem. I've observed this behavior through 4 separate gas refills, and so far it is 100% consistent in that I can haul *** and redline it no problem when the tank is bone dry, but as soon as I put so much as a couple gallons in, its right back to limp-home mode. I've never seen anything like this in any other car I've owned or driven, and google hasn't helped at all. I just want to figure out if there's anything in the fuel system that I should keep an eye on, or if this is just some kind of fluke, since I've been scratching my head over this for a couple weeks now. Just in case it makes a difference:
- It doesn't make a difference if I'm alone or have passengers, the behavior is still the same, so I've factored out the weight difference.
- It doesn't make a difference if its 87 or 93 octane in the tank
- The car did sit for about 5 months without so much as a start up before I got to drive it home
If anyone can shed some light or even point me in remotely the right direction, I'd be super grateful.
#2
Flashing MIL = severe misfires, doing cat damage. Don't drive it if you can help it or you'll be needing one or more cats
Try OBD readings (from such as an elm327). You need live data.
Check sensors etc whose function you can grasp (not many! - ECT, IAT, fuel pressure, ...).
Check for actual & pending codes.
Also see if all OBD monitors are set (causes pending P1111) but if not (P1000) exactly which ones are unset.
Finally check fuel trims. Hot engine, parked. LTFTs & STFTs ate idle and again at about 2500rpm.
Hopefully something will be apparent.
Try OBD readings (from such as an elm327). You need live data.
Check sensors etc whose function you can grasp (not many! - ECT, IAT, fuel pressure, ...).
Check for actual & pending codes.
Also see if all OBD monitors are set (causes pending P1111) but if not (P1000) exactly which ones are unset.
Finally check fuel trims. Hot engine, parked. LTFTs & STFTs ate idle and again at about 2500rpm.
Hopefully something will be apparent.
#4
#5
"New ignition coils are inbound" = new ignition coils are on their way to me.
Yeah, blinking MIL/CEL means major trouble destroying components. From your posting you are continually driving it with this condition = "I've observed this behavior through 4 separate gas refills".
Yeah, blinking MIL/CEL means major trouble destroying components. From your posting you are continually driving it with this condition = "I've observed this behavior through 4 separate gas refills".
Try OBD readings (from such as an elm327). You need live data.
Check sensors etc whose function you can grasp (not many! - ECT, IAT, fuel pressure, ...).
Check sensors etc whose function you can grasp (not many! - ECT, IAT, fuel pressure, ...).
Check for actual & pending codes.
Also see if all OBD monitors are set (causes pending P1111) but if not (P1000) exactly which ones are unset.
Also see if all OBD monitors are set (causes pending P1111) but if not (P1000) exactly which ones are unset.
#6
XeroTheory: Just spit balling...…..A vacuum line runs from the fuel tank to the charcoal canister (above the fuel tank) to the evap solenoid (on the fire wall, by the brake power booster on US / LHD cars) to the intake manifold. When the engine is off or cold, the evap solenoid should be closed. When the engine is warmed up, the evap solenoid should open to allow fuel fumes to be sucked from the charcoal canister into the engine. Just a WAG, but I wonder if somehow a failure in this emissions system might be causing your X-Type's odd symptoms. Try this simple test: There is a vacuum line from the firewall to the top of the intake manifold, near the throttle body. Trace it back to the evap solenoid on the firewall, under the 2 electrical connectors for the Bank 1 oxygen sensors. Disconnect this vacuum line from the evap solenoid and plug it to prevent air from being sucked thru the vacuum line and into the intake manifold. Now start the engine with gas in the tank and see if it runs properly. If 'yes', then the problem is somewhere in this evap vacuum system.
#7
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#8
Hi,
did you solve you problem? I have exactly the same. If the fuel tank is nearly empty the engine works perfect. But in other cases the misfire happens.
I've measured high fuel pressure. So I've changed fuel pump and also pump control module. But without any effect.
I guess that problem is somewhere in the EVAP system. But I appreciate some hints.
did you solve you problem? I have exactly the same. If the fuel tank is nearly empty the engine works perfect. But in other cases the misfire happens.
I've measured high fuel pressure. So I've changed fuel pump and also pump control module. But without any effect.
I guess that problem is somewhere in the EVAP system. But I appreciate some hints.
#9
Have you changed the fuel filter? My 2007 runs great, most of the time, however, every once in a while it would misfire and bog down. I replaced the fuel filter and it ran great, again. There was a lot of fine dirt-like (brown) material in the filter. If it's really bad you may need to flush out the tank. Anyway, give it a try. It may not be the problem, but what the hell, it's an easy job.
#10
#11
#12
#13
One for the gauge and one for the low level light?
How would that affect the engine running?
#14
The sensor on (LHD) driver's side has a sensor that controls the "venturi system" gas feeding, thus attempting as best it can to equalize the fuel level left and right in the "saddle bag" gas tank for weight distribution and vehicle handling. Once the driver's side is completely depleted, it shuts off "sucking" from that side so it's not sucking excess air (only). The sensor on the actual pump on the passenger side controls the "low fuel" lamp and/or the NAV low fuel warning. That passenger side is deeper with the "reserve" in the saddle bag tank @ low level.
So a faulty driver's side sensor telling the car to do the wrong thing makes sense it could cause running problems.
So a faulty driver's side sensor telling the car to do the wrong thing makes sense it could cause running problems.
Last edited by Dell Gailey; 02-24-2019 at 11:40 PM.
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