I installed a counter act on a 79 Mercedes Benz 450SLC I owned. I had the car for a few years and it had no rust when I sold it and it was kept outside all year around and that's tough on New England cars.

 

JVegas, Nice to see you're discussing the issue again. I'm still pursueing this, I totally fixed the problem because I love the car, BUT someone's going to pay for it. See my responses on this thread and my saga. I did find out why the X-Types from 2004> didn't rust (or as much as) it's because they started making them in aluminum, prior to this they were steel. This in addition to redoing the design on the rockers to "include" holes. Mine, when take apart had no holes at all.

 

So, am I to understand that my 2007 X-Type should not have this issue? Now, I'm all worried about this topic.

Thanks!

 

Hello,

I'm not sure when / if the transition to aluminum occurred. As I wrote earler, I saw an '05 in a Jag-authorized body shop at around the time I was repairing mine and there was rust in this area, although not as bad.

Good luck,

Steve

 

Are you saying you believe the rocker panel material was switched to aluminum or the whole vehicle?

If you are implying that the whole vehicle is manufactured of aluminum `04 and up, that is not correct. The XJ8 was switched over to an aluminum body shell in `04, but not the X-Type.

 

I agree with the previous post, I think all X-Types are steel. Since the rusting area is hidden in the sills it takes a couple of years to develop so that's why newer cars may not show it. Sadly, the old Jaguar reputation lives!

 

I'm scared to look at mine....................but I will have too.

 

I don't have all the answers, I'm just going from 2 years of researching the issue and what persons have told me and not told me (in confidence). When I say "they're now made of steel", I don't really know what this means. I say this because when I was at the "authorized Jag dealer" for a routine oil change, part owner or relative of the owner approached me to trade in my '03 for I think was an '06+. She had said I could get top retail trade in for my car due to it's condition (she originally thought I had just purchased it and was waiting for the final touches, not an oill change), then started the sales pitch about the "new grill front", the double cup holders etc., and three years newer, (you guys can target this year if you know these items), then she said Jag changed the material to aluminum for "lighter feel and speed". Now, what she meant by that as to what part was changed, I don't know, I just assumed the frame which would make total sense in the weight of the car. This actually was a turnoff for me, I happen to like the weight of the car and feel this is why it hugs the curves. I know it's not the awd only, due to in a storm or icy roads we chose the Jag to drive as opposed to the 4x4 truck for it's stability and handling. The only way to find this (to nip it in the bud before it destroys your car) is to remove the plastic rocker panel "cover", you will see the "steel" rocker. This will be rusted, THEN once you remove the rocker, you will see the "rusted" uni-body (these are the pics I posted 9/13, showing the exposed uni-body under the rockers after the "skin" was cut away). The authorized Jag autobody shop I was sent to re-fabricated the bottom portion of the uni-body (rather than ordering a whole new one which they would be trashing 3/4 of it, they simply re-built the entire bottom you see in the pics). I have daily pics of the process.... all 40 days worth !!!! I am told not all autobody shops will go to this extent, I got special treatment because RI is a small state, every knows someone. The dealer sent me to an auth Jag autobody shop that happens to be good friends of a longtime friend... there truly is a God. Most autobody shops will go through these steps, then re-affix the new rocker to the rotted uni-body, spray and cover to look pretty, cover with the plastic covers and the consumer will never know. However in 2 years you will be back to square one. The proper way to totally fix this is to replace the entire uni-body or refabricate the destroyed portion. This will be a total cost to cure of 6300.00 - 6500.00 (I got two quotes before I went to their "auth autobody shop". Now back to the original root of "ignoring" of this issue, I'm told Jag won't assist in the repairs nor the dealerships because it's not a safty hazard. Hummm, if it's not, then why can't you get a car inspected if there's visible rust???? Would you buy a house if the foundation is rotted ??? This is a safty hazard !!! My hope is to bring more attention to this matter so that Jag will know it's wronged the public and make good of their reputation. Do a total recall nationwide, make good of the name. I guarantee, myself included, would upgrade to stay within the brand. Again, look at Toyota for cryin out loud !! Jeeze, I can go on and on about this. Let me know all your thoughts if I should continue or "shut up".

 

LAD, if I was to argue this with Jaguar I'd focus on the SAFETY issue of sill rusting. The sills form an integral part of the "rollcage" that protects the passangers. In frontal and side impacts a weak sill will allow the car to collapse. The second safety issue is that the car may eventually break in half. Obviously this is a major safety issue. Lastly, the fact that the plastic cover hides this damage adds to the arguement in that it's not obvious to the owner. Have you talked to NHTSA?

 

I posted a New thread the other day on what I found in the sill area, it is a harbinger for rust. IMHO the drain hole on the cowl is the culprit, leaves and junk get in there and block it so water can't drain down to the street. I went to trade high school and took 4 years of auto body, after that I worked for almost 3 years in a shop until the Vietnam war caught up with me. To get out of the fighting I joined the Navy, but after boot camp I as assigned to Navel Seal Team 1, back then they were strictly black ops. But back to the rust, cars 45 years ago were built different then cars today, body on frame was the norm. Most rust repairs were front fenders and rear quarter fenders and damage from accidents, Bondo wasn't used much in the shop I worked at, we used lead. When I inspected the sill area of my Jaguar the other day I was amazed at the design of the sill area, the plastic cover with the space between it and the sill really baffled me. My advise for people who have no rust now is to wash under that plastic cover as much as possible and make sure the drain holes on either side of the cowl are open. I had my son hold a hose over the drain holes and I was by the door and water flowed quickly down to the ground. I am going to see a friend who owns a body shop and is very good, he not only fixes dents and rust he rebuild older cars, he did a couple of restorations for me over the years. I am going to find out if there is any product that could be put on the sill under the plastic cover to stop surface rust from starting. According to the location of the rust it could start inside and rust out the metal, but looking at the photos I have a feeling this rust started on the outside. Finally I am also amazed that, that much could accumulate in a relatively short period of time. If the car was a 56 Ford, Chevy, Pontiac I could understand how fast the rust ate away the metal. But in this day and age with galvanized steel, rustless weld seams, etc. It's odd. While I was inspecting the sill area I decided to check the oil. Being aware of rust on this cars now I noticed on the slam panel there is a small amount of rust on the areas that are spot welded. I got my rust removal pencil out and cleaned the rust off and used some touch up paint, It looks OK not great but OK.
PS: After my tour of duty was over I didn't go back to the auto body business, too dirty and low pay, I got involved in the freight transportation business and taught college at night, also published a book in 04.

 

Thanks for the reply !! I will look into this NHTSA, very good suggestion, any aves I can take to group this complaint is always helpful.... this was how I got this far, by a mere thought. For a temp fix you might try POR15 which is a rust inihibitor which is supposed to kill rust in it's tracks by eliminating oxygen because rust needs oxygen to continue it's process. This can be purchased in any good auto body supply shops or online at Eastwood.com. I believe after the shop re-fabbed my uni-body they had sprayed a similar undercoating and rust inhibitor, this in combination with the new design of the rocker panel to include drain holes, they assured me another 10 years on the car...... (I'll probably blow the motor by then . I will keep you posted on my ventures with NHTSA, I'm excited about this. Now that I'm waiting for the State's Attorney's to read my file, I was at a loss as to an alternate avenue. I like to have as much ammutition on my side as to not get the run around when one avenue tries to passify me with a **** poor result..... the more results I can get into this file may result in this nationwide recall which would help us all.

 

Hello,

Adam, the rust starts inside on the inner rocker panel. There are two rocker panels plus the outer plastic shroud. The inner panel isn't accessible until the outer rocker panel is cut away. But, the inner panel is visible from a couple of access holes.

One access hole is covered by a rubber plug just below the lower front door hinge. The plug is tough to remove with the door in place but if anyone is interested, the doors come off quite easily: simply remove the small torx screw from each hinge (they keep the door from lifting off) - no need to disturb the hinge bolts themselves - and unplug the wiring harness by twisting the threaded nut about 90 degrees counterclockwise and wiggling the plug loose. The door will lift off but it is heavy! With this plug removed, stick your finger in the hole (your pinky should fit) and rub the inside of the panel. You'll feel rust and your finger will be covered by it. That's proof that corrosion has begun.

The cowl drain at each side of the windshield is connected to a 3/4" diameter vinyl hose that runs inside the A-pillar but exits behind the front fender about a foot from the bottom of the car. If you carefully spray water on just the windshield, you should see water exiting from behind the fender, just to the rear of the inner splashshield. I don't think the drain is the issue, rather I think the inner panel that starts inside the A-pillar is poorly rust-proofed internally. In fact, since it heavily corrodes in only five years or so I'd bet it isn't rust-proofed or galvanized at all. Moisture in the air may be enough to start the corrosion process, which is why in an earllier photo you can see that the corrosion extends along the entire inner panel and not just at the bottom or at the front. If the corrosion was localized, then you could assume it was from water that wasn't able to escape. Also, there are drain holes along the entire bottom of the steel outer rocker panel. But, as I found out when I cut away my car's damaged metal the inner steel rocker doesn't have drain holes.

It's most definitely a design flaw. Even if the entire body was dipped in a galvanizing solution during manufacturing, the inner rocker which is basically sealed by welds all along its edges wouldn't be covered by the solution. For it to corrode so quickly indicates to me at least, that the inner sheet metal wasn't treated at all.

I agree that it's a structural (read safety) issue. The A-pillar not only supports the weight and stresses of the doors, but it's an integral part of the unibody, supporting the upper body and roof. In a few years, you'll be reading about X-Types whose bodies are no longer rigid and are twisted due to road shocks. You'll start seeing misaligned doors and cracked windshields, too. I don't want to think about what could happen in a collision. I have an '03 and as I wrote earlier I did my best to stop the spread but I didn't cut away the entire rocker so I can only surmise that at some point down the road the rust will reappear elsewhere.

The only sure-fire way to solve it is to cut it out and fabricate with all new and protected steel. Assuming $6500 per affected car, there is no way Jaguar will make it right without a class action suit. They'll claim that their six year corrosion warranty is intended to protect the consumer over a reasonable period and will point to other manufacturers' warranties as evidence of what is customary in the industry.

If there's an X-Type owner-attorney on this forum, I'd love to hear what he / she thinks are the chances of any of us receiving restitution.

Good luck,

Steve

 

You can file a complain with the NHTSA on line. Go to there website and search for complain forms safety. One thing to keep in mind they will not act on one complain they need quite a few before they will contact the manufacturer.

 

That's correct Steve 12955, the only way to solve the problem is cut away, refab and redo new sides and rockers.... this is exactly what I've done. I'm going to do some research on the NHTSA site and will advise. Do you think there is enough for a group here?? As far as attorney(s), I'll keep you posted on what the State attorneys say once they review my file.

 

I still wanna believe that X Types are safer than any japanese car like Toyota Prius god forbid in a nasty collision .
I heard a tough noise when closing the doors for X Type but I don't know if this is anything to do with a rock solid car , still the chances are metal fatigue gonna be a nightmare in next years from what I see

 

Ok, I went online with NHTSA and filled out a complaint form. Will keep you all posted. Feel free to join my crusade and do the same. The more voices heard.... "we the people..."

 

I am going over to my friends body shop and bring along your post. Thanks so much for the informaiton. I would gladly be part of a class action suit on this issue. However, it is best to get a lawyer who would work on a percentage of the settlement. I heard about people filing such suit and paying lawyers 10's of thousand of dollars and 5 or 6 years later loose. My daughter is a para legal and advice when suing a large corp. is to have deep pockets as they have many lawyers who can file briefs and motions for years before you even get into the courtroom, also the legal system is the US moves very, very slowly I just received a check for $46 dollars from a class action suit against an insurance company I have a policy with. The complaint was filed on 2004. It was an ET El suit which mean everyone who had this type of policy was in the suit.

 

If I did this correctly there should be a pic of the sill area under the plastic cover of my car.

 

I guess I didn't the pic is on my reply. I'll try again. Adam

 

Hey Adam, good luck at the body shop. I'd like to hear what they tell you. I never did ask, did my pics in my 9/13 response come thru?? With regard to your response, thanks for participating in this crusade, but my intent is to NOT spend a dime on this to pursue legally. I'm waiting on the State to send me some paperwork to file further. This should be here by 9/21. I'll keep you all posted on these efforts. Has anyone else gone on NHTSA to file a complaint?? Just as an FYI to all those seeking to repair this issue as I did and spend the 6-7k to do so, I just found out another person in my state got Jag NA to fix all the repairs free of charge. According to the letter, it's to avoid "saftey" casualties in the future.... hummm, I think we're onto something here. If we can go to a central location for this issue to file posts as a group on an independent website..... does anyone know how to do this??? (I mean create a website).