I just realized I did my last oil change- just prior to the CEL coming on. I recall having a heck of a time pulling the dip stick out. I may have damaged the little o-ring once I was able to pull the dip stick out.

I am wondering if that might be a possible source of my P0171/P0174 codes. It seems so non-important, but I know sometimes little things can cause problems.

I want to thank the members who have responded back to me on this issue. I noted a list of recommended code readers & non-recommended. I tried a cheap one off of Amazon.com. I bought an Autel MaxiScan MS300 CAN Diagnostic Scan Tool for OBDII Vehicles for only $19.95 marked down from $39.99. It read the codes but would fail to clear the CEL- it simply gave me a Clear Fail Message. I returned it. This was prior to my replacing the almost 10 year old battery. After doing that, my DSC Fault Message no longer flashes across the display when I turn the key on. I can also now turn the S function off on the automatic transmission. It looks like I'm down to just a 171 & 174. A 1796 jumped in the last readout. I'd like to clear and see what happens.

I looked on the list of recommended code readers and did not see one specifically ok for the 2004 X-Type 3.0. I actually have the latter model 2004 which has some 2005 features. I found that out when I bought floor matt & the driver's side had a problem by the acceleration pedal. I am a member of Amazon Prime & get free shipping. I realize one often gets what one pays for, but I don't plan to use it often & places like AutoZone will not clear the CEL faults. I tried to by lifting the negative terminal off for 30 seconds. I might have something preventing it.

Just before my warranty expired, the Nav unit needed to be replaced. I noted that when the battery was replaced, I still had all my previous destinations whereas some years ago when I took the battery out to clean it, I lost all the destination data. Interesting. But then I had the battery out for a good hour. On Friday evening, it took only 10 minutes to replace the battery at Advance Auto & they did it. I lost my clock, window settings, and went to C on the temperature readout. No big deal- but on Sat morning I was surprised to see Philadelphia International Airport still listed. All I can think of is there is some type of "keep alive" circuit in the new Nav unit or a large capacitor.

I tried using propane to check for vacuum leaks with absolutely no change noted. I think I must have a very tiny leak. I inspected the accordion between the air clean and MAF- looks ok. I wonder where I can buy a special pair of clamp pliers for the two rings which secure the accordion in place. Do I simply cut the old clamps and use water-hose type clamps? Seems simple enough.

I saw people on You Tube using water mist, brake cleaner, propane while an engine was running. I also saw a guy blow cigar smoke- interesting.

I noted a P1111 during the last code read which I understand means the tests passed.

 

Backhertz, the oil dip stick and your P0171/174 codes have nothing to do with each other. Odds are, the dipstick issue is because the dipstick has a slight bend in it from where someone forced it in and now it doesn't want to play nice. You should be able to pull out the dipstick and then find where the stick has a kink in it and hopefully straighten it out.

As for a code reader, look at getting the Actron 9250. I have that and it is a good basic reader that will handle your car and allow you to clear the codes. You should be able to pick it up for like $60 or so at a local parts place. Keep in mind that if you have a code that is being set (fault is still happening), you can clear the code, but as soon as the engine is started and the engine goes through its checks, it will cause the CEL light to come right back on.

Start with checking the PCV valve hose and then cleaning the MAF sensor. After that, spend some money on the IMT valve o-rings and replace those. That will clear most of what you may have. Also check the vacuum line going between the top of the intake and the brake booster. The "football" in the middle of the vacuum line is known for cracking and causing what you are seeing. After that, you are most likely looking at a leaking intake seal and the gaskets will run you about $50 total (for both upper and lower gaskets) if you know where to look. If you try to go through the dealership, plan on spending $150 or so. IF you need help with this, let me know as I have found the part numbers in the past. Installing the new intake gaskets isn't hard, but does take some time (about a 3 hour job). I would say if you don't mind a little road trip, to come on down to southern Maryland and I will help you out.

 

Thank you for the detailed response. I have many years experience on maintaining vehicles with OBD-I & II except it's been several years & I'm rusty. I looked for an Actron 9250 and came up snake eyes. I did located a couple other readers: an Actron CP 9125 for only $42.49 and CP-9550 for $71.14. I think the 9250 may have been superseded.

I hate going to a '***********' if I don't have to. In 40 years time, I've only gone twice for warranty work. I did all the other work. I am a retired radar engineer who maintained the huge orange radar towers you might see at airports around the country. So I am quite familiar with every type of test equipment and the built-in self testing which on cars is referred to now as OBD-II. I've rebuilt many a car, but I have little experience on my 2004 X-Type with only 65K miles. I don't drive it like I should any more as a result of a long story.

I was hoping to see some type of change while using propane and noted nothing. But I have a can of MAF cleaner & will have to get some huge hose clamps to replace the special clamps on the accordion flex piece. I did an inspection and noted absolutely nothing when I applied propane around all the suspects. But I know it is most likely a relatively simple fix- it can be frustrating at times. I bought a Mazda Protege for less than half price because it would go into 'limp home' mode. With schematic in hand along with 3 voltmeters, I monitored the sensors and BAM! One of them went to 12 volts when the engine warmed up- in other words, it opened. $16.95 later, I replaced it and my daughter drove the care for several years. It was a temp sensor for the 'computer'; not the the temp gauge.

I have a vacuum gauge which I'm not sure will help. I need to do some things and I'll keep you informed. A road trip to Southern MD might be a huge learning experience for me. I appreciate the offer. I have a few medical appointments to tend to. Will be back.

 

Backhertz, I understand radar myself. Got to fix a few units in my day. Granted, all of mine were on the submarine and in school. The radar guys hated when us "nukes" would come up to their place and fix their stuff.

As for the Actron unit, any of them should do what you are after. The big thing that you want to decide on is how much information that you want available. With that being said, if you have an early 2004 car (ie, manufacturered on/before March 2004, then you can get the ELM 327 unit and use your smart phone or a laptop with a bluetooth unit (all wirelessly). Granted, they also make wire ELM 327 units that you can just plug in your laptop to them that way. Then, using a free program (Torque), you can see real time data as the computer sees it. Saves on having to connect up multiple multimeters and you can see real time data as you are going down the road. IF you have a later car (ie, made after March 2004), then the ELM unit does not seem to work (atleast as far as I know). Then you would be stuck with getting a higher end handheld unit like the Actron. The nice thing about the ELM unit is you can get the whole thing for under $20 and use your phone for everything.

I don't think the vacuum gauge is going to tell you much at this point. If you are pulling off the factory clips to ensure a good seal on the flexible joint, make sure to pull the flexible joint completely out and wipe down both ends to make sure it is nice and clean and will be making a good seal.

If you come on down, you either need to make it fairly soon (before the second week of February) or wait until after March. I will be going into some long hours at work (72 hour work weeks) for about a month and a half. As you can imagine, I am not going to have a lot of free time. If you come down, we can try my ELM unit and see if that might be a workable thing for you.

 

Funny you should mention those "special" clamps. I just took my car in the other day because I had been getting a very intermittent CEL. Performance seemed the same and it would go off when I reached the correct number of driving cycles. Was told the code coming up was related to the gas cap, so I replaced that. Recently the when the light came on and I noticed a distinct split second misfire. So, I took it in and was told that the clamp was not sealing well enough. Put on a new clamp and the car feels like brand new. Even when the light was on the engine must not have been running quite at it's best because now it feels much smoother and more responsive. You drive a car every day and don't notice a slight degradation over time. Not saying that is your problem, but at least something to look into. I was told the codes coming up were P0171, P0174 and P0101. Hope I'm good for another 120K miles.

 

I served a career in the Air Force but the best service tech school I ever attended was a Navy school at Corry Station in Pensacola. Unlike Air Force tech schools where a person goes to school for 6-8 months, they are then required to perform OJT for another 6 months following the school. The Navy did not graduate anyone who wasn't fully qualified to go to work on a system the day after they graduated. Go Navy!

I ordered a Actron P9125 off of Amazon for $42.49. Not a bad deal as it was "normally" $135.99. Will have it on Thursday. I want to do what I can prior to taking up up on your offer to help. I have the 2004 later model X-Type. Found that out when the front floor mats wouldn't fit.

I've used the real-time software a while back when I was troubleshooting a problem on a Miata. I simply loaded the program to my notebook computer and then used a special dongle/attachment/interface that connected between my notebook serial port and the OBD connector. So it was a while ago as serial ports are no more. I don't believe it was a USB. Anyhow, I don't have access to the software or the interface anymore.

I'll let you know how things work out. I am an old-school component level troubleshooter. I never believed in "easter egging" or "plugging and chugging" as I've seen many engineers/technicians do across the country. It amazed me to see people simply starting to replace part after part and not have a clue as to if they were in the right ballpark, let alone the correct game.

One time, I was asked to rush out to a radar site where the technician was getting to go into the transmitter and take some voltage measurements. Radar systems have tens of thousands of volts created in a PFN- pulse forming network and can kill people. I rushed out & found the technician had the book open to the right page, was using the right test equipment- but did not realize the cupola lights (i.e. Power On indicator) were off. In other words the transmitter had no power going to it!!!!

The tech was using a Unix-based system to interface with the transmitter system on one side of the room. When she did not get the voltage and power readings for this transmitter, she simply started going down a flowchart which led her completely away from the problem & she had no idea of really what she was doing. The ironic thing was she was paid more than me. C'est la vie.

I learned the Bosch system on my 1984 Volvo & found by simply reading the single O2 sensor, I could tell if I was learn or rich. The OBD-II system is much more advance this dem olde daze. A technician, given the proper test equipment, I believe should be able to troubleshoot a problem in no time. I spoke to the Actron technical people earlier looking for a Actron 9250 which I learned doesn't exist. So I settled on the 9125. The technician told me that Actron has very little to interface with the Jaguar systems. That bites. I found a link last night that showed a system that was around $300 & then for another $300, one could purchase some more modules that would allow a person to get into the other Jaguar modules. It was late & not something I was looking to purchase. I'm not planning to open a Jaguar service center. I enjoy mechanics, but woodworking is my next interest. I'd rather buy a high quality hand plane than a fancy-shmancy automotive diagnostic system.

How far in South MD are you? We probably should PM details once we get to that point. Thanks.

 

I think i had a dumb attack. I thought the MAF was a complete unit that attached to the accordion hose. I realize now, it is simple screwed into the side of that assembly that is attached to the hose. This is because that was the way my Volvo (Bosch 1984) MAF (air mass meter) was designed. Looks like an easy item to clean out. I'll have my code reader on Thurs- possibly tomorrow. Will see.

What are the correct # of driving cycles to clear a 171/174? I noticed mine is going off by itself, but then it comes back.

Anyone know where I can get a special set of clamp pliers or do you think I should just go with large hose clamps?

Thanks

 

Backhertz, I am down in the most southern tip of Maryland. If you look on a map, find DC and then go half way between the center of DC and the most southern tip of Maryland. That is roughly where I am. You should be able to see where the Patuxent River meets up with the Chesapeake Bay, that is where I am.

As for the driving codes to clear, it takes 5 complete driving cycles without the code appearing. On the 6th start, the CEL will clear itself.

THe intake clips I use a pair of needle nose pliers to undo the clips. It just takes a nice downward pressure as you are squeezing the clip together. Then putting it together, you need to put the tips of the needlenose into the recesses and then you can squeeze it together and it will lock into place.

 

I ordered the Actron P9125 from Amazon.com last night at 6:15 P.M. & was expecting delivery on Friday. It arrived by noon today! I was able to clear my codes & extinguish the CEL. I also noticed it has a mode for use while the car is running for reading MIL status & I/M monitors. That's interesting. Anyone familiar with the other features? I don't want to have the reader on while the engine is running if there is a chance of a self-inflicted wound.

I learned long ago, I don't know everything and found it's easier to ask others questions.

Thanks

 

Thanks Chris. This is weird as my CEL has been clearing itself. I've been down to Waldorf some years ago. Anyhow, this tells me I have an intermittent condition. Being the weather in New Jersey has recently turned cold, it seems like it something there is something that is common to both sides to get a 171 & 174. So something common to both sides. I cleared the codes earlier. Haven't gone anywhere since. The code cleared itself last Friday. Then on Saturday morning, it came back- it was really cold at 5 A.M. when I went to the Philly airport & the CEL came back on. At 7:30 AM, I drove by an Autozone & they pulled a 171/174 & a 1796!!!??? Will see what comes back.

So right now, I'll see when the light come on.

 

I'm wondering if this might be an excuse for me to get a USB o'scope interface & software to use my notebook as a multiple channel oscilloscope. Back in the old analog TV days, I could trigger an oscilloscope to watch monochrome TV video. We had plenty of test equipment to provide the necessary sweep generators, etc.

I'd like to really learn the OBD-II system. So it takes 5 complete cycle to clear the code. I wonder what the criteria is for one cycle. I know it has something to do with getting to operating temperature and X number of minutes. There are hundreds of test run, so i imagine it takes some time to run every single test. Some tests must have the vehicle in motion. So one cycle might be different from another. I like a good challenge.

On radar systems we had something called n of m. Which essentially meant it might take one fault to equal one problem or you could change the n of m values to make it take several failures before declaring an alarm state.

I'd like to back problem the sensors and see what signals I might find. I did that on my Volvo with the Bosch Lamda Sond system. I scoped every single connector to and documented on my PAPER volvo service manuals & Robert Bentley manual to have an idea of a normal running system. That system had a single O2 sensor. If I remember correctly, a DVM would reflect about .5 VDC when running properly. Too lean would cause one extreme. Too rich would indicate a rich condition. Pretty simple, actually.

The Jaguar has so many signals going on, it would be difficult without drawings. I could though check the biggies and see what signals I see with an oscilloscope. But I'd be shooting in the dark. For now, I'll need to do some more inspection & clean the MAF. I'd rather do one thing at a time than to do a lot & have no clue as to what I did for a correction. Night.

 

backHertz, a drive cycle is considered the motor turning 10,000 revolutions (as I recall) and the motor getting up to temp. SO, whatever it takes to reach that condition.

As for your intermittent problem, I would be leaning towards the MAF sensor. Give that a good cleaning and see what you have then. I think you will find that will clear up your problem.

 

Well folks, I've been driving every day and since I received the code reader & cleared the 171/174 codes, I just went to the airport and the CEL has not come back on. On Jan 4th, the code had cleared by itself and returned the next morning, Jan 5th on my way to the airport- less than 24 hours on the CEL off.

I have driven the car every day for more than a couple of hours around 45 minutes, to/from medical appointments. My CEL remains off. I just pulled a P1000 which tells me the fault testing isn't complete, but I imagine by tomorrow, I should have something.

So what is the difference? I honestly believe it is related to the warm weather and the change of a very cold period where a heavy coat & gloves were required to the almost opposite extreme where I didn't even need a jacket this morning. So does this condition help point in any direction?

I'm not sure if I'm experiencing a similar issue with the warm temps in the day & freezing temps at night/early morning.

I'm am not going to use the word assume or the words, I think. I'll continue to monitor and report back with my finding(s). It's hard to find an intermittent problem if it is not recurring. I have several cans of freeze spray, but I'm going to simply wait and see.

Once the cycle is completed, is there a code that tells me all tests have been completed?

I plan to clean the MAF upon the next recurrence. I see what looks like two MAF sensors screwed into the MAF 'assy'. I'm not sure what all I'm looking at to accurately describe it right now.

I'll continue to look as time permits for a procedure or maybe a YouTube video. I have a digital VOM & wonder if i should first back probe the MAF to get before voltage readings & after cleaning voltage readings rather than simply hope & spray… If I have to disassemble the MAF, are there any gaskets/o-rings/packing to replace?

I could easily get an oscope to observe the fuel "trim" and other test points, but I'm not sure where to hook up or trigger from. I've maintained the old-time massive mainframe computers to long-range million watt radar systems where I'd be looking for tiny nanosecond-wide pulses or north marks which starts everything in a radar system. In either, as well as an OBD-II vehicle, timing, of course is crucial/critical along with sensor inputs to the proper operation of the engine. The operation in a vehicle is much like a radar system in that timing/feedback/built-in self testing is crucial to operation. I'd gladly go back to an old ignition system with points and a carburetor. But I'm just as comfortable, if not more so on a modern vehicle because of the OBD-II system. It's a shame though there is little published on paper anymore.

I don't believe in "Easter egging" or simply replacing parts in the hope I find the bad or intermittent one. But I will find it. Prior to my retirement, I was one of a handful of guys who specialized on fixing problems on large radar systems around the country that local & regional technicians/engineers were unable to fix. 99% of problems could be fixed over the phone, but there would always be one where I'd have to catch a plane and plan on spending as many hours as it took fix the system. The group I worked with had no one else to call for help- no phone a friend lifeline, but this forum is like asking the audience to help/vote. <smile>

Tough problems were my favorite as there is always a reason/cause & catching an intermittent, or worse intermittents where there are multiple problems. We knew how to suspend certain tests in order make the system operate in a "limp home" mode. We'd set up test equipment to 'capture' an event by monitoring up to a dozen test points at a time & then simply wait & BAM! Fixing a tough problem to me was a good 'high'.

What often amazed me with "easter eggers" is they would start replacing subassemblies and often times put in a bad subassembly because one of the other technicians might have used their good spare assy & never send it to the depot to be repaired, but simply put it back on the shelf. Talk about adding insult to injury… But then sometimes a refurbished assy might be bad from the depot. Those were fun days before I retired. One must never assume anything…or else…

Thanks everybody for your assistance to date.

Tony

 

Tony, you have the right part that you are describing when it comes to the MAF sensor. There is no seal that you have to replace if you pull it apart. Once you get it apart, what you are going to see is a small tube with 2 holes down the center of the tube. If you look down at the bottom of the holes, you will see 2 small wires at the bottom running parallel to each other. These are very fine wires, so, when you spray, you want to bounce the MAF cleaner fluid off of the walls, not spray straight down the tube.

As for pulling off voltages, I could tell you where to probe, but I am not sure what sort of voltages would be considered good and bad. So, once you got a value, I have nothing to say if that is what you would be expecting.

I hear you on dealing with easter eggers. In dealing with this forum, I keep track of what problems people have and what they have done to fix them. It is one of the things that I do behind the scenes. The problem is, with the codes you are getting, there are quite a few things that can give you those codes.

 

Might make for a good sticky if it isn't:
http://www.jag.co.jp/test_tool/jagua..._OBD_II_R4.pdf

Describes some of the testing process.

 

I just read the Fuel Trim Primer and found that the writer used the example of the oil dip stick gasket effect on the fuel trim by introducing air into the system. This, I believe was my initial problem because my gasket was damaged when I tried checking my oil & found the dip stick was stuck.

I need to get a new o-ring.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/g...ed-quiz-49317/

 

I was just going to say that it may be your dipstick, I was reading about your codes the other day and it mentioned that it may be caused by getting too much air down thru where the dipstick goes into the engine. By the way did you work at RCA/GE? I used to work at the RCA astro division in Heightstown as a mechanical designer on the satcom satellites.