Auto lights means no dash lights
#21
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Jagalag, ok, I am on the same page as you. You don't mention issues with your high (main) beams, your turn signals, or running lights. So, we can assume that your ground wire is good. You do not have a second wire for the low/dip beam as you have the standard halogen bulbs (not the HIDs). So, this means that your problem is somewhere between the left headlight and relay R11. So, the most obvious issue would be fuse F29 which should be a 10 amp fuse. Replace the fuse with a new fuse. If the left headlight returns, problem solved.
Assuming your left headlight is still acting up, I want you to put on your headlight (normal ON) and I want your to measure VDC (20V) and touch the black lead to any ground point you can find and then we are going to use the red lead to touch the top of fuse F29. You are going to see 2 silver posts there. Make sure you touch the metal there (may need to get a straight pin to shove in the fuse to give you something to touch with the lead). You should get 12 VDC on both of the metal posts of the fuse. If you are getting 0 VDC, then we know your problem is in the fuse box and unfortunately, you will have to get a new fuse box.
Assuming you go 12 VDC on both of the posts, you are now going to move over to the left headlight and gain access to the back of the headlight assembly (you may have to remove the bumper cover so you can unbolt the headlight assembly). You are going to want to find the white wire with a purple stripe going to terminal 5 on the back of the headlight assembly (pin will be on the end of a line of wires). Using a straight pin, slide it in along side the wire until you feel it hit something solid. Now touch the red lead to the pin. Do you get 12 VDC? If no, you have a wiring problem between the fuse and this point and this will require running a new wire between the two points. You may be able to hand over hand the wiring and find the damaged point and repair just that 15cm section. If you need help with that, let me know. I can tell you how to make a repair that will survive a nuclear plant melt down (the type of connection repairs I have to make for work, yes, really, so, underhood is nothing for this type of repair and it is not that hard to do). If you got 12 VDC, then odds are, your wire from inside the headlight housing at terminal 5 to the headlight bulb is bad and needs to be replaced. This wire is known to fail and cause what you are seeing. The halogen bulbs run hot and destroys this wire. Again, if you need help, let me know. There are replacement wires that you get for a few pounds that will ensure you don't have a problem in the future. Probably a good idea to get 2 so you can replace the right side at the same time since you have the bumper cover off. Save yourself some work in the future.
As for the dash lights, if it is bright out, your dash lights should be out. Only when it gets dark should your dash lights come on at the same time your headlights do. With this being known, this is pointing back to either a bad fuse F29 or a fuse box. If you need me to explain how the auto headlights turn on the dash lights, I will do that. It is not necessarily obvious unless you know hwere the cross over is which is not necessarily obvious as it is not labeled on both drawings needed.
Lets see what you find and then we will move on to the other issues.
Assuming your left headlight is still acting up, I want you to put on your headlight (normal ON) and I want your to measure VDC (20V) and touch the black lead to any ground point you can find and then we are going to use the red lead to touch the top of fuse F29. You are going to see 2 silver posts there. Make sure you touch the metal there (may need to get a straight pin to shove in the fuse to give you something to touch with the lead). You should get 12 VDC on both of the metal posts of the fuse. If you are getting 0 VDC, then we know your problem is in the fuse box and unfortunately, you will have to get a new fuse box.
Assuming you go 12 VDC on both of the posts, you are now going to move over to the left headlight and gain access to the back of the headlight assembly (you may have to remove the bumper cover so you can unbolt the headlight assembly). You are going to want to find the white wire with a purple stripe going to terminal 5 on the back of the headlight assembly (pin will be on the end of a line of wires). Using a straight pin, slide it in along side the wire until you feel it hit something solid. Now touch the red lead to the pin. Do you get 12 VDC? If no, you have a wiring problem between the fuse and this point and this will require running a new wire between the two points. You may be able to hand over hand the wiring and find the damaged point and repair just that 15cm section. If you need help with that, let me know. I can tell you how to make a repair that will survive a nuclear plant melt down (the type of connection repairs I have to make for work, yes, really, so, underhood is nothing for this type of repair and it is not that hard to do). If you got 12 VDC, then odds are, your wire from inside the headlight housing at terminal 5 to the headlight bulb is bad and needs to be replaced. This wire is known to fail and cause what you are seeing. The halogen bulbs run hot and destroys this wire. Again, if you need help, let me know. There are replacement wires that you get for a few pounds that will ensure you don't have a problem in the future. Probably a good idea to get 2 so you can replace the right side at the same time since you have the bumper cover off. Save yourself some work in the future.
As for the dash lights, if it is bright out, your dash lights should be out. Only when it gets dark should your dash lights come on at the same time your headlights do. With this being known, this is pointing back to either a bad fuse F29 or a fuse box. If you need me to explain how the auto headlights turn on the dash lights, I will do that. It is not necessarily obvious unless you know hwere the cross over is which is not necessarily obvious as it is not labeled on both drawings needed.
Lets see what you find and then we will move on to the other issues.
#23
Thread alive again
Hi, I noticed my old thread has come to life again. In case it proves helpful, I thought I’d add an update to the new conversation going on. I don’t have the X-Type anymore.
Outside of this forum, I also reached out to the UK forum with the same issue and based on advice there I found the solution to my issue. This was fuse 29; it resided IIRC under the bonnet in the engine bay fuse box. I replaced the burnt out 5A fuse with a 20A replacement and this fixed my lighting issue.
I would recommend checking that out before any open heart surgery on your car.
Outside of this forum, I also reached out to the UK forum with the same issue and based on advice there I found the solution to my issue. This was fuse 29; it resided IIRC under the bonnet in the engine bay fuse box. I replaced the burnt out 5A fuse with a 20A replacement and this fixed my lighting issue.
I would recommend checking that out before any open heart surgery on your car.
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Jagalag (01-15-2024)
#25
Thanks for reawakening to provide your insights DeepPurple I appreciate that. Thermo just mentioned fuse 29 too so that looks more promising now. The easy reference diagram you provided highlighting is very useful too.
Cheers
Cheers
#26
It got rid of all the light anomalies, however I measure the battery at rest 12.0V b4 starting it and then when it was running whch gave 11.35V! Ot went up to about 11.55V after about 15 mins. So not sure what's going on there unless its due to the battery depetion as I haven't driven it anywhere despite starting it s few times but let the engine run on a couple if occasions
There're a few more gremlins in the system too but it may be close to being roadworthi-able already
#27
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Jagalag, I would say if you are not going to drive the car for 24 hours, disconnect the battery and put it on a charger to get it up to 12.6 VDC. Then reconnect the battery and do the voltage checks again. What you should see is hood open/doors shut/all electrics off, the battery should be at 12.6 VDC. While starting the car, it will dip to around 11.0-11.5 VDC and then jump up to 14.5ish VDC. IT will hover there for a few minutes and then slowly ramp down to 13.7 VDC. If you are not seeing this, then you may have a problem.
Kinda like you will find out that if you let the car sit more than say 3 days, the battery wil be a little depleted. You will then need to drive the car for a minimum of 30 minutes to get the battery back to 100%. If you go longer, then you need to drive the car longer. I would say a rule of thumb is going to be 10 minutes for every day. If you are letting the car set for a week at a time, a battery minder device is going to be a good idea. Also keep in mind that you need to lock the doors or various computers do not go to sleep and this results in an increased battery drain. So, always lock your doors, even if you are storing the car inside a garage.
Kinda like you will find out that if you let the car sit more than say 3 days, the battery wil be a little depleted. You will then need to drive the car for a minimum of 30 minutes to get the battery back to 100%. If you go longer, then you need to drive the car longer. I would say a rule of thumb is going to be 10 minutes for every day. If you are letting the car set for a week at a time, a battery minder device is going to be a good idea. Also keep in mind that you need to lock the doors or various computers do not go to sleep and this results in an increased battery drain. So, always lock your doors, even if you are storing the car inside a garage.
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Jagalag (01-16-2024)
#28
I do have a battery charger (well 2 from auction lots) that works, so I'll disconnect, recharge, reinstall and I'll check it again as per your description. Technically I'm now out of MOT so don't want to drive it around until I re-roadworthy it.
Also, though an aside to the electrical issues, I have an exhaust leak around the turbo, I suspect a gasket issue atm. It's been like that for some time now but I don't remember if it was like that through its last MOT which it obviously passed (second time round after a tyre change), hopefully it goes through this time but it is noticeable if bonnet up and first starting the car as I also have some exhaust smoke to clear if it's been sitting for more than a short while ..I suspect worn valve stem seals on this. Anyway I might be back for help on this from a more knowledgeable mind as and when, as this may save me the additional research time.
Hope to remedy the front lighter socket too for phone charging convenience; as I mentioned before it has never worked, however the boot lighter socket does work. There's been a bit of electrical intervention by previous owner(s) as well which I think may account of the front lighter; a DAB radio system which isn't working (afaik) was installed, as well as additional cabling in to the built-in headrest displays for some other functionality/device which have never worked (not that I tried too much after the first attempt) and which I have removed from the drivers side (about 8 months ago) along with the headrest itself as the plastic fixing on the headrest stem inside the headrest broke and made the headrest flop over.
I don't know if that created any electrical quirks, as I left the corresponding connector end loose (though not electrically contacting anything) which runs up the side of the drivers seat and in to the mid-console area where it may be spliced on to the front lighter cable - just a suspicion of mine.
Well that's some of the numerous niggles I'm up against ..first task is to get it through the MOT
Also, though an aside to the electrical issues, I have an exhaust leak around the turbo, I suspect a gasket issue atm. It's been like that for some time now but I don't remember if it was like that through its last MOT which it obviously passed (second time round after a tyre change), hopefully it goes through this time but it is noticeable if bonnet up and first starting the car as I also have some exhaust smoke to clear if it's been sitting for more than a short while ..I suspect worn valve stem seals on this. Anyway I might be back for help on this from a more knowledgeable mind as and when, as this may save me the additional research time.
Hope to remedy the front lighter socket too for phone charging convenience; as I mentioned before it has never worked, however the boot lighter socket does work. There's been a bit of electrical intervention by previous owner(s) as well which I think may account of the front lighter; a DAB radio system which isn't working (afaik) was installed, as well as additional cabling in to the built-in headrest displays for some other functionality/device which have never worked (not that I tried too much after the first attempt) and which I have removed from the drivers side (about 8 months ago) along with the headrest itself as the plastic fixing on the headrest stem inside the headrest broke and made the headrest flop over.
I don't know if that created any electrical quirks, as I left the corresponding connector end loose (though not electrically contacting anything) which runs up the side of the drivers seat and in to the mid-console area where it may be spliced on to the front lighter cable - just a suspicion of mine.
Well that's some of the numerous niggles I'm up against ..first task is to get it through the MOT
#29
Battery test - post recharge
.. disconnect the battery and put it on a charger to get it up to 12.6 VDC. Then reconnect the battery and do the voltage checks again. What you should see is hood open/doors shut/all electrics off, the battery should be at 12.6 VDC. While starting the car, it will dip to around 11.0-11.5 VDC and then jump up to 14.5ish VDC. IT will hover there for a few minutes and then slowly ramp down to 13.7 VDC. If you are not seeing this, then you may have a problem.
The battery sat off charge for a large part of the day maybe 6 hrs and I had taken another measurement at about 3 hrs after charging, it was about 13.4 V at this point.
Then inserted it in the car disconnected, 13.1V; connected with doors unlocked and internal lights on 12.88V; with doors locked 12.88V too.
Engine start rapid drop 10.3V, rising immediately to 12.25V and rising tosbout 12.35V after 1 min.
My son stopped the engine as he ssid it was vibrating so much😏
I did a retest of this with similar values: 10.4V drop to 12.3V to 12.4V after 1 min.
Then the driver door wouldn't shut, though it was due to the cold temperatures (-3°C ambient and -15°C recorded on the bonet) gelling up the lock grease. I later sorted that with a blow torch. However after the test all the main head lights (except parkers) were out and the auto dash lights too.
Without having the fuse guide to hand I checked all the enginr bay fuses in situ with a continuity test with the neg terminal off and discovered the big 60A F22 had blown.
i locked up as it was dark and cold on the street and will probably re-attend to it tomorrow. Will need to get another 60A fuse from somewhere and probably some more small ones too
#30
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Jagalag. I would tell you to get a capacity check done on the battery. I think you are going to find that it is low on capacity and this is causing some funny stuff to happen. The key number you are wanting is 75%. If you are above that, then you should be good. If you are below, then bad battery, replace.
As for Fuse F22, I would not worry too much about it at the moment. If you install a new fuse and it blows again, then we have a problem. Believe it or not, fuses do wear out, especially when they are run near their limits a lot.
As for Fuse F22, I would not worry too much about it at the moment. If you install a new fuse and it blows again, then we have a problem. Believe it or not, fuses do wear out, especially when they are run near their limits a lot.
#32
Also I fully recharged the battery over 6 to 8 hours on battery charger after that, left it standing at least 6hrs and reported the voltages shown above. I should reiterate that this is a 62Ah 540CCA battery compared to the original 80Ah 720CCA
I also have another 62Ah 540CCA which came out of my son's car after we thought that his starting problems were battery related required an unpredictable number of cranks b4 ignition - I replaced his with a similar secondhand one from a breaker's yard and the starting problem remained but not as badly and then simply disappeared shortly thereafter. So I had that battery tested in town and it tested 'good' - though I didn't get a % from it, but it did show it was about halfway across the horizontal bar, so I took it to mean it was halfway to being 'bad'. So in theory I could use this battery to check the performance too; it currently reads 12.69V and has been standing for about 18 days (not sure if I had recharged it on the battery charger prior tho')
I also have the original battery 80Ah 720CCA which I have just put through a recharge cycle as well, about 10 hrs+ and after standing for a few hours yesterday it read 12.79V, it now reads 12.62V, but even after having had this on full charge a couple of weeks ago for a 50 mile round trip I made to pick up firewood, after stopping for 1.5 hours, the car needed jump starting to get it going at its destination b4 returning home. Getting that battery tested may need a trip in to town if our local garage doesn't have the facility.
Here is the new battery in the car, you can also see that the 'green' 'OK' float is reflecting in the viewing chamber - it was in the needs 'recharge' state of course when I put it on the battery charger before.
New battery 62Ah 540CCA
New battery 62Ah 540CCA
#33
According to DeepPurple's fusebox diagram above (I haven't double checked this) Fuse 22 is for the glowplugs - I have previously had an issue with the connector for it on at the engine edge before as it had melted out (probably occurred sometime before I bought the car). I had been driving it around most of last year in the 'non-cold' weather with the cable disconnected, but made new connection with what I had at hand to improve the detonation cycles and for the impending cold weather, that was probably 6 months ago.
For the best part it was functioning well but there were signs of overheating on the new connector early on which hadn't deteriorated any further. However I had used a wire crimp terminal (yellow) on one side of the standard terminal block connector and the wire can be pulled in and out of it though it is not loose. This connection tends to hold itself in position and afaik it is providing sufficient current to the glowplugs without over-heating. I have taken some pics, also with the wire pulled out.
On reflection now I'm wondering if my makeshift connector has finally created a conductive bridge short to the engine block/ water pump bracket through the side of the plastic of the terminal block. Perhaps there has been enough heat to melt and carbonisation of the plastic aided by engine vibration to short out to the engine head
glowplug cable connector
glowplug cable connector
glowplug cable connector
For the best part it was functioning well but there were signs of overheating on the new connector early on which hadn't deteriorated any further. However I had used a wire crimp terminal (yellow) on one side of the standard terminal block connector and the wire can be pulled in and out of it though it is not loose. This connection tends to hold itself in position and afaik it is providing sufficient current to the glowplugs without over-heating. I have taken some pics, also with the wire pulled out.
On reflection now I'm wondering if my makeshift connector has finally created a conductive bridge short to the engine block/ water pump bracket through the side of the plastic of the terminal block. Perhaps there has been enough heat to melt and carbonisation of the plastic aided by engine vibration to short out to the engine head
glowplug cable connector
glowplug cable connector
glowplug cable connector
Last edited by Jagalag; 01-19-2024 at 10:53 AM.
#34
Yeah mine's a estate / wagon so maybe it's special for them. Not sure exactly what the thinking was, unless it's plug in mini air compressor for the back wheels or for similar when say inflating a dinghy or the like conveniently at the back where it would be in the boot!
Not really so convenient for me where the front doesn't work. I've managed to put a 2m charger cable for the phone on to it and get the phone to rest on the back seats as opposed to sitting in the boot now at least
Not really so convenient for me where the front doesn't work. I've managed to put a 2m charger cable for the phone on to it and get the phone to rest on the back seats as opposed to sitting in the boot now at least
#35
Thermo, just confirmed there is a short in a certain position on this glowplug cable connector, so will have to remedy that somehow first. I have ordered a few 60A maxi fuses which my be here as early as tomorrow, but might need to find a suitable connector somewhere.
--
Now I've just picked up a yellow sleeve (crimp-down) connector from the local tractor garage with a view to using that perhaps wrapped in electrical tape over and up and down the wire to give it more protection and stability from the wire shifting.
--
Now I've just picked up a yellow sleeve (crimp-down) connector from the local tractor garage with a view to using that perhaps wrapped in electrical tape over and up and down the wire to give it more protection and stability from the wire shifting.
Last edited by Jagalag; 01-19-2024 at 11:15 AM.
#36
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Jagalag, what I would tell you to do is to take that yellow butt connector (that is what it is called) and strip the yellow plastic off of it. Then what you are going to do is find some stuff called "Raychem WCSF-115". Yes, it is going to be a little pricey, but you only need a 6" piece or so. Should not be that bad of a price overall. Then what you are going to do is cut a 3" piece of it and slide it as far up the wiring as possible (you want 6" inches (15cm) between the end of the wire and there the start of the Raychem is). Then, using a soldering iron, solder each wire into the butt connector to make the physical connection vice crimping it. you can crimp it if you want to help hold things together. BUt, the big thing is soldering the wires to the butt connector. You can then slide the Raychem over the butt connector and center it over the butt connector. Once you have it centered, use a heat gun or similar product and shrink that raychem down to the point that you see little orange o-rings form where the Raychem meets the wiring. You can then use your tie strap to hold it in place. This raychem is some impressive stuff and it will laugh at the under hood temps.
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Jagalag (01-23-2024)
#37
... find some stuff called "Raychem WCSF-115". Yes, it is going to be a little pricey, but you only need a 6" piece or so... ...Then, using a soldering iron, solder each wire into the butt connector to make the physical connection vice crimping it. you can crimp it if you want to help hold things together. ...This raychem is some impressive stuff and it will laugh at the under hood temps.
- Continuous Operating Temperature: -40°C to 120°C.
- Shrink Temperature: 120°C.
- 3:1 shrink ratio
There are quite a few small pieces from the US at similar prices plus about £90 to £150 pounds for delivery
I have glue-lined shrink tubes already somewhere but not sure what their upper temperature performance range is - might try looking it up.
As the car is across the road without easy access to mains power. I'll either look to solder with a small blow torch or will have to drive the car over the road.. will see how the blow torch goes first up. Also not sure I'll have enough room to send a piece of the shrink tubing down the wire but will see how it goes - I'd preliminarily solder up the wires first anyway before attaching the butt connector.
Also I did get given many years ago some very new and at that time very expensive large roll of high temp silicon tape as another high temp silicon rubber that I'd bought did not perform to its expectations on a oil-fired range cooker stove. I think it was supposed to be able to withstand high 300s degC but I'm not too sure where it is exactly (though I think it should be found in one room). I'm wondering if that might be effective taped around it
Anyway off to search out more on the Raychem
BTW Its original 80Ah battery charged up last week is now reading 10.38V so I would assume it's a goner now
Last edited by Jagalag; 01-24-2024 at 03:23 PM.
#38
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Jagalag, if you charged up the battery and it has fallen to 10.38V just letting it sit unconnected, yes, that battery is toast.
As for the insulating heat shrink, if you have that silicon tape, you can use that. I only recommend the Raychem as it creates a water tight connection and prevents future issues cropping back up from the wire corroding. If you can find some other stuff with the glue inside that is cheaper, use that. I am just familiar with the Raychem as I use it to survive a nuclear reactor melt down (gotta love my job). It will shrink just fine using a blow torch. Just keep the flame moving and don't let the flame wrap around the Raychem. You will know if you have applied too much heat as the rubber will start to char. But, this is going to take a lot of effort. As for the shrink ratio, that is how much it will reduce to at a minimum. So, the WCSF-115, because it has a 3 to 1 ratio, it will shrink as small as 0.115 inches and its unshrunk inner diameter would be 0.345 inches (or 0.115 times 3). Let me see what I can find at work. Send me a PM with your address and you will hopefully get a package here shortly with some goodies in it.
As for the insulating heat shrink, if you have that silicon tape, you can use that. I only recommend the Raychem as it creates a water tight connection and prevents future issues cropping back up from the wire corroding. If you can find some other stuff with the glue inside that is cheaper, use that. I am just familiar with the Raychem as I use it to survive a nuclear reactor melt down (gotta love my job). It will shrink just fine using a blow torch. Just keep the flame moving and don't let the flame wrap around the Raychem. You will know if you have applied too much heat as the rubber will start to char. But, this is going to take a lot of effort. As for the shrink ratio, that is how much it will reduce to at a minimum. So, the WCSF-115, because it has a 3 to 1 ratio, it will shrink as small as 0.115 inches and its unshrunk inner diameter would be 0.345 inches (or 0.115 times 3). Let me see what I can find at work. Send me a PM with your address and you will hopefully get a package here shortly with some goodies in it.
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Jagalag (01-25-2024)
#39