Calling all engine guys!!!! Please help!!!!!!!!!!!
#21
10-13-2010, 09:56 AM
HEMITWIST......hey buddy,
I really appreciate your input on my shotty situation man. Yea i totally agree on 90% of what your sayin as ive helped build a few engines ( mainly mustangs ) and with research from some of the guys here on the forum that went thru that hell of a rebuild job. ALL say they wouldnt "rebuild" again. Simply to much money that these JAGS require for a rebuilt and i can tell by your avatar your kinda old school like me,but redoin a crank on these, there are no oversized bearings. If i went with a build up and grind down your still talkin a lot of money. Long story short, ive talked to the guys that have done an actual rebuild and parts arent cheap for these things as its pretty cut and dry. Not an aftermarket "market" for these kitties. Hell, a manditory bolt set was 500 bucks!!!
But on the other hand, yes, once i receive my used engine i will take the time to check every possible thing prior to reinstall. You are a 100% correct on that end. Just a chance we have to take in life when we arent rich ya know. lol. Us middle class learn the risk takin ability the hard way. lol.
I did shut her down within a few miles of hearing the noise "get worse" than the knockin sound. So who knows. I will sell the rest of the parts to members on the forum that do not come with this used one. What will most likely be left over is a base long block. So the heads, timing assembly, oil pan, injectors and so on will still be available if someone needs them.
Thanks again Hemi
I really appreciate your input on my shotty situation man. Yea i totally agree on 90% of what your sayin as ive helped build a few engines ( mainly mustangs ) and with research from some of the guys here on the forum that went thru that hell of a rebuild job. ALL say they wouldnt "rebuild" again. Simply to much money that these JAGS require for a rebuilt and i can tell by your avatar your kinda old school like me,but redoin a crank on these, there are no oversized bearings. If i went with a build up and grind down your still talkin a lot of money. Long story short, ive talked to the guys that have done an actual rebuild and parts arent cheap for these things as its pretty cut and dry. Not an aftermarket "market" for these kitties. Hell, a manditory bolt set was 500 bucks!!!
But on the other hand, yes, once i receive my used engine i will take the time to check every possible thing prior to reinstall. You are a 100% correct on that end. Just a chance we have to take in life when we arent rich ya know. lol. Us middle class learn the risk takin ability the hard way. lol.
I did shut her down within a few miles of hearing the noise "get worse" than the knockin sound. So who knows. I will sell the rest of the parts to members on the forum that do not come with this used one. What will most likely be left over is a base long block. So the heads, timing assembly, oil pan, injectors and so on will still be available if someone needs them.
Thanks again Hemi
#22
10-13-2010, 10:05 AM
JUST AN UPDATE!!!
I called the guys back cuz they bever sent pics and with your info and my mechanic brother i asked how it got cracked? My bro said it may have disrupted the timing and caused a backfire. Once i started askin questions they said they checked it out and there is more wrong than they thought and mileage was wrong. Blah Blah. So scratch that one but another in the works locally
Thanks guys !
I called the guys back cuz they bever sent pics and with your info and my mechanic brother i asked how it got cracked? My bro said it may have disrupted the timing and caused a backfire. Once i started askin questions they said they checked it out and there is more wrong than they thought and mileage was wrong. Blah Blah. So scratch that one but another in the works locally
Thanks guys !
#23
10-13-2010, 10:27 PM
Hey 49er...yes i grew up in Warren but livin in St Clair Shores now. Your not to far. And yes you have a valid point on tryin to figure out where it all went wrong. Sometimes its noticable and sometimes its not. Either way i would have to redo everything to be sure. Pretty costly. Im goin for the 27000 engine just because it comes with a 6 month warranty. The ONLY downside is they said they noticed a small crack in the timing cover and intake. Came from a salvage car obviously and doesnt scare me to much as i would def go through it all prior. I have a guy that builds these type of engines that would go over it with a fine tooth comb when i get it. Simply use my timing cover and intake. Sounds pretty good to me. Im also goin to pull the oil pan to change the gasket and kinda poke around in it also. I want to feel confident when it goes back in.
If all goes well ill have my cat back on the road looking sweet and purrin like she should
If it goes wrong, well its under warranty and will prolly drown myself in alcohol a few nights and tackle it again. Im determined to keep this car.
Thanks everyone for the help. You guys rock.
Dave
If all goes well ill have my cat back on the road looking sweet and purrin like she should
If it goes wrong, well its under warranty and will prolly drown myself in alcohol a few nights and tackle it again. Im determined to keep this car.
Thanks everyone for the help. You guys rock.
Dave
So, the 27k motor is vaporware. Too bad, 'tis good Hemi put his skeptism in ink. Good call, Hemi!
Sure hope this newly-discovered alternative motor works out. Good luck!
#24
10-14-2010, 06:46 AM
Glad that I was able to save you some anger issues down the road.Also keep in mind on this kind of deal when they back up a used engine with a another used engine.The 2nd replacement engine that they offer you may have 200,000. plus miles on it.But be the only replacement engine that they have.And all that they said that they would do is give you another engine. They do not say up front,well the other engine is close to the year you need.And is very high in miles,but will run,but best to do a complete rebuild.
At that point I hope that you keep your gun a home...You can look at a engine and see if it looks like it only has 27k or what ever it is that they say.If it is still in the car and the drivers seat looks like a 200,000 mile drivers seat with the foam hanging out.The engine more then likely is to.Also the back up engine may be nicer then the first one that they sold you.It is all a game to see what they can get away with selling you.And when it comes to money people seem to get real freaking ugly and greed start to set in.
A 27k engine once you removed the oil pan SHOULD look like a new engine.
On the outside is should look clean around the oil pan rail and front timing cover and rear main seals and so on.Not all caked up with oil and dirt like it has been a leaky pig for years and years.
Good luck.I could run my lips on and on but I will stop here.
Glad that I was able to put some questions into your deal and it save you a big big headache..The only stupid question is the one not asked.
What year Mustangs?My sister use to have a 70 Mach 1. 351 shaker hood,4spd. car.Rear window louver and pedestal spoiler.Sweet pony car!
Ok so much me me being finished talking...
Are you sure that it is a broken rod?Or did I start that?Could it be a valve that came loose and smacked the hell out of your piston??Or even something as simple as loose flex plate bolts??
I would sure want to see what it making yours tick,or not tick before I started handing out money on a replacement engine.
I would think from what others have said,that the bottom end of your engine should be near bullet proof.And not the norm as far as breaking rods or rod caps falling off.With a breaker bar can you turn your engine over at the crank and try to listen for a click click to get a better idea of location of your troubles?
Let us know when you have your intake off,all the front junk,a/c compressor power steering,radiator with fans and so on and both valve covers and then if you still see nothing wrong you could pull the heads.I love taking crap apart.Or pull the engine out the top with it stripped down i would think.May not want to pull the heads just yet if you do not need to and then have to buy new heads bolts and gaskets for nothing.
Or start with the tranny to be sure that it is not a flex plate issue.That would bite if it was the flex plate bolts backing out and your engine is half taken apart and a new used replacement engine sitting next to your car,ready to go in.But it does not sound that simple...
That is half the fun,tying to find what went wrong.
I would do that before you buy any other engine.Your time is free as long as you do not start missing work over this.Your old engine needs removed if it is now junk before a replacement engine can go in.
Keep your cash in your pocket as long as you can.Why buy another engine for it only to sit for weeks or months before it gets installed.I am talking in general.I see people do that all the time and most the time they got in over there heads and the engine never gets installed and the car and engine sold off as part years after.
You do not know what went wrong yet to just jump on buying another engine.Starting to sound like your dad,sorry...Can the camshafts on thus car break in half?That would sure make some noise and stop things.Just to many things that it may be and most the time it is what no one even thought about.
Keep us up to date as far as your engine coming apart.I do not want to read how you jumped on a engine before the seller sold it type deal.They will all say that to you.
And then your findings may be a easy repair?I do not know if Jag. engines are in that big of demand?I can look for you if you like.I have no clue what size or year or years you are looking for.But here in Florida with all the older folks.I do not think one would be that hard to find.Could be wrong.Would not be the first time.Shipping cost may be $250.00 up.But on a true low mile engine for the "right price" it would be worth shipping it.And from a reputable place with a good selling history.
No i do not sell engines,but have been down your road many times!I have not much better to do and could look and send any details on one that I find on my end.If I find??Can i get a idea on a used engine for thus car price,just so I know right off the bat if such n such is worth looking into.I know the cars new to used price are a crying shame.The Jag. I got from my dear old Mother was what I think as major bucks when it was new out the door.And the blue book on it now with under 50k miles is just a joke.So with that said it would not seem like the engines would bring that much?? I stay far far away from dealerships I might add!
You on your end may find a nice low mile engine in a car that is wrecked and the seller knows that it is only good for parts.Or one that the transmission has blown up and that is why they are selling the car for peanuts,with a nice engine.
Sorry.looking back on this you had said that it was NOT the flex plate.But that still means your engine starts coming apart to find the cause.What ever you are able to remove you will save if you end up paying someone to remove the engine.Might be able to do quite a bit of the work yourself on the removing goes.And i guess that you are in need of a 3.0 from years 02-08 correct?
That dual overhead camshaft install and removal can be some fun.And special tools are needed.Always be careful when messing with the timing gears and chain on them.Once the chain has been slacked/removed,or any overhead cams.As soon as that chain is slacked/removed,the camshaft timing gears on them will turn because of the spring load against the lobe on the cam shaft.That is why you need to rent or buy or make a tool to hold the camshaft gears in place when you put a new chain back on.Once messing with it you will understand what I am trying to say.But i would say this is the hardest part on rebuilding this engine.They have to be set right or you send valves into your what looks like domed piston tops..A good way to get a finger caught between the 2 gears.Keep fingers clear when removing the chain.
Again just my 2 cents.Can read it or just more on to the next reply.
I have a Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4 that I did the change the timing belt at 70k mile thing and it was or is about the same kind of set up.
At that point I hope that you keep your gun a home...You can look at a engine and see if it looks like it only has 27k or what ever it is that they say.If it is still in the car and the drivers seat looks like a 200,000 mile drivers seat with the foam hanging out.The engine more then likely is to.Also the back up engine may be nicer then the first one that they sold you.It is all a game to see what they can get away with selling you.And when it comes to money people seem to get real freaking ugly and greed start to set in.
A 27k engine once you removed the oil pan SHOULD look like a new engine.
On the outside is should look clean around the oil pan rail and front timing cover and rear main seals and so on.Not all caked up with oil and dirt like it has been a leaky pig for years and years.
Good luck.I could run my lips on and on but I will stop here.
Glad that I was able to put some questions into your deal and it save you a big big headache..The only stupid question is the one not asked.
What year Mustangs?My sister use to have a 70 Mach 1. 351 shaker hood,4spd. car.Rear window louver and pedestal spoiler.Sweet pony car!
Ok so much me me being finished talking...
Are you sure that it is a broken rod?Or did I start that?Could it be a valve that came loose and smacked the hell out of your piston??Or even something as simple as loose flex plate bolts??
I would sure want to see what it making yours tick,or not tick before I started handing out money on a replacement engine.
I would think from what others have said,that the bottom end of your engine should be near bullet proof.And not the norm as far as breaking rods or rod caps falling off.With a breaker bar can you turn your engine over at the crank and try to listen for a click click to get a better idea of location of your troubles?
Let us know when you have your intake off,all the front junk,a/c compressor power steering,radiator with fans and so on and both valve covers and then if you still see nothing wrong you could pull the heads.I love taking crap apart.Or pull the engine out the top with it stripped down i would think.May not want to pull the heads just yet if you do not need to and then have to buy new heads bolts and gaskets for nothing.
Or start with the tranny to be sure that it is not a flex plate issue.That would bite if it was the flex plate bolts backing out and your engine is half taken apart and a new used replacement engine sitting next to your car,ready to go in.But it does not sound that simple...
That is half the fun,tying to find what went wrong.
I would do that before you buy any other engine.Your time is free as long as you do not start missing work over this.Your old engine needs removed if it is now junk before a replacement engine can go in.
Keep your cash in your pocket as long as you can.Why buy another engine for it only to sit for weeks or months before it gets installed.I am talking in general.I see people do that all the time and most the time they got in over there heads and the engine never gets installed and the car and engine sold off as part years after.
You do not know what went wrong yet to just jump on buying another engine.Starting to sound like your dad,sorry...Can the camshafts on thus car break in half?That would sure make some noise and stop things.Just to many things that it may be and most the time it is what no one even thought about.
Keep us up to date as far as your engine coming apart.I do not want to read how you jumped on a engine before the seller sold it type deal.They will all say that to you.
And then your findings may be a easy repair?I do not know if Jag. engines are in that big of demand?I can look for you if you like.I have no clue what size or year or years you are looking for.But here in Florida with all the older folks.I do not think one would be that hard to find.Could be wrong.Would not be the first time.Shipping cost may be $250.00 up.But on a true low mile engine for the "right price" it would be worth shipping it.And from a reputable place with a good selling history.
No i do not sell engines,but have been down your road many times!I have not much better to do and could look and send any details on one that I find on my end.If I find??Can i get a idea on a used engine for thus car price,just so I know right off the bat if such n such is worth looking into.I know the cars new to used price are a crying shame.The Jag. I got from my dear old Mother was what I think as major bucks when it was new out the door.And the blue book on it now with under 50k miles is just a joke.So with that said it would not seem like the engines would bring that much?? I stay far far away from dealerships I might add!
You on your end may find a nice low mile engine in a car that is wrecked and the seller knows that it is only good for parts.Or one that the transmission has blown up and that is why they are selling the car for peanuts,with a nice engine.
Sorry.looking back on this you had said that it was NOT the flex plate.But that still means your engine starts coming apart to find the cause.What ever you are able to remove you will save if you end up paying someone to remove the engine.Might be able to do quite a bit of the work yourself on the removing goes.And i guess that you are in need of a 3.0 from years 02-08 correct?
That dual overhead camshaft install and removal can be some fun.And special tools are needed.Always be careful when messing with the timing gears and chain on them.Once the chain has been slacked/removed,or any overhead cams.As soon as that chain is slacked/removed,the camshaft timing gears on them will turn because of the spring load against the lobe on the cam shaft.That is why you need to rent or buy or make a tool to hold the camshaft gears in place when you put a new chain back on.Once messing with it you will understand what I am trying to say.But i would say this is the hardest part on rebuilding this engine.They have to be set right or you send valves into your what looks like domed piston tops..A good way to get a finger caught between the 2 gears.Keep fingers clear when removing the chain.
Again just my 2 cents.Can read it or just more on to the next reply.
I have a Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR4 that I did the change the timing belt at 70k mile thing and it was or is about the same kind of set up.
Last edited by hemitwist; 10-14-2010 at 07:35 AM. Reason: just can not shut up I guess...
#25
10-14-2010, 05:44 PM
Hemitwist,
After reading your post i feel the same way about basically relying on someone else. Again i would do a rebuild but i really do not have the time and based on the engines i have found through extensive freakin research, lol, i think ill go used.
This is what i have so far and will make a new thread takin advise fromeveryone as everyone has valid points someone may have missed and brought ot my attention. One main reason these forums rock! Here we go.....
Engine #1 is local (not in the best of neighborhoods but yard seems honest)
2002
36000 miles
ran in car and i witnessed.
$1700 bucks.
Engine #2
2002
14000 miles
ran in car and tested at sight, plus 1 year parts warranty
$2000 bucks
Engine #3
2005
17000 miles
tested good plus 1 year warranty
$2000 bucks
So basically this is my state right now. Plus i have a local shop that would take my engine out and reinstall the new one for $850 bucks.
What do ya think???
After reading your post i feel the same way about basically relying on someone else. Again i would do a rebuild but i really do not have the time and based on the engines i have found through extensive freakin research, lol, i think ill go used.
This is what i have so far and will make a new thread takin advise fromeveryone as everyone has valid points someone may have missed and brought ot my attention. One main reason these forums rock! Here we go.....
Engine #1 is local (not in the best of neighborhoods but yard seems honest)
2002
36000 miles
ran in car and i witnessed.
$1700 bucks.
Engine #2
2002
14000 miles
ran in car and tested at sight, plus 1 year parts warranty
$2000 bucks
Engine #3
2005
17000 miles
tested good plus 1 year warranty
$2000 bucks
So basically this is my state right now. Plus i have a local shop that would take my engine out and reinstall the new one for $850 bucks.
What do ya think???
#28
10-14-2010, 06:09 PM
#30
10-15-2010, 01:36 AM
#32
10-15-2010, 03:42 PM
The Chris X,
This im finding to be true. My engine is the 3.0 BTW. I called my local guy that has a running in vehicle jaguar engine with 36000 miles. I had told him about this Lincoln LS engine people are talkin about and he was like "what"? He did a cross reference through his database of compatibilty and said the heads are different and also the oil pan. So makes me question the fit process. And i think the lincoln ls was rear wheel drive. Could be wrong as i know the v8's are.
Overall i think ill go with my local shop and take his. Seems like an honest guy and i watched it run on the tow truck so i know they really didnt have time to play with it. The guy had to find a battery to make it run. Purred real nice.
So who knows, ill just play it safe and go with what works.
#34
10-16-2010, 10:14 AM
Sounds like you ran into a sweet deal.Think that you had said only $850.00 to R&R the engines.Can not beat that! Is he keeping your engine that he pulls?That may be his thoughts on it and why such a good deal??
Good luck! Glad you found a deal!
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1.03.01c1476eb7-2a27-4edb-945c-2b6fd85f5a74
1.03.01
Good luck! Glad you found a deal!
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1.03.01c1476eb7-2a27-4edb-945c-2b6fd85f5a74
1.03.01
#35
10-16-2010, 03:24 PM
Hemitwist,
yea thats for takin mine out and installing the new one. And heck no he isnt keepin my old one. lol. And he also said to give him the new things i want installed before he puts it in so i dont have to mess with it later. Like oil pan gasket and seals and whatnot. Pretty good guy.
But i dont know if you have read into my thread about " Help me pick an engine' Please" as i am goin a different route now. There is a guy on here that has used a 2003+ lincoln ls engine and swapped some parts to make it work for less than half of the jag engine. Plus im goin to do it myslef. Overall ill save about 1700 bucks
yea thats for takin mine out and installing the new one. And heck no he isnt keepin my old one. lol. And he also said to give him the new things i want installed before he puts it in so i dont have to mess with it later. Like oil pan gasket and seals and whatnot. Pretty good guy.
But i dont know if you have read into my thread about " Help me pick an engine' Please" as i am goin a different route now. There is a guy on here that has used a 2003+ lincoln ls engine and swapped some parts to make it work for less than half of the jag engine. Plus im goin to do it myslef. Overall ill save about 1700 bucks
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