Short story: replaced fuel pump with one from eBay. eBay pump apparently has a faulty check valve so if the car sat for a few days the car would crank for up to 10 seconds and then sort of sputter and cough for a second, then it ran fine. No problems at all if the car had been run within the last 24 or 36 hours, engine would roar to life as soon as I turned the key. Per the discussion in the link below I added an inline check valve external to the fuel tank. Problem went away.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...itting-248475/

Now about 100 miles later I am out for a drive and detect the faint smell of gasoline after driving for about 10 minutes. Not strong but definitely there. Check engine light came on 10 or 15 minutes later with codes P0193, high fuel pressure, and P0457, Evap system leak detected. At the same time the CEL came on the dash display had a "Check Gas Cap" warning. A few minutes later the charging system warning light came on.

1) High Fuel Pressure P0193: I logged fuel pressure with the Torque app. It is consistently between 52 and 55.5 psi. Never goes above 55.5 in my test of random stop and go, windy road, or highway driving. Have ordered a new fuel rail pressure sensor, will be here in a couple of days.

2) Evap leak P0457: I see here on the forum Dell has a good post about evap leaks with a P0455 or P0456 code. Is there anything to glean from a P0457 vs P0455 vs P0456? They all seem to indicate the same thing. I found Jaguar Technical Bulletin XT303-03, "Evaporative System Diagnostic Flow Charts" but it doesn't even mention a P0457 code. Have ordered a new gas cap because why not?

3) Charging system warning light: I put a voltmeter on the battery and I get about 15.2 volts after a cold start. In a couple of minutes that drops to 13.6 volts. As expected, so why the warning light? I replaced the positive cable from the battery to the alternator and to the starter and to the fuse box maybe 250 miles ago because it was getting hot so I know it isn't the battery cable problem.

Are these 3 random problems that happened within 2 miles? Or something underlying tying them together?

 

The parts shotgun?

Maybe a ground connection problem?

52/55,5psi (about 3,6 to 3,8bar) seems to be ok (seen at other manifold injection engines). But could be different in this particular case.
Vacuum hose of fuel pressure regulator checked? (Marten attacks?)

(On special markets there should be a depressurize actor at the fuel rail near fuel temp sensor. I don't know.)

Hot positive cable? Is that normal?

Smell of fuel: marten attack, too?

catfondler

 

Thanks! I don't mind the parts shotgun when the total for all is under $100.

I had to look up marten attacks. You could be right about that. We don't have martens but we have field mice looking for a winter home. They cut a wire on my MAP sensor last year and gnawed on one of the coil wires but only ate the insulation, not the copper.

Hot positive battery cable is a problem on these cars, there are many posts here about bad battery cables.

 

Neither the Jaguar "Powertrain DTC Summaries - OBD II" nor the Jag Technical Bulletin titled "Evaporative System – Diagnostic Flow Charts" at JagRepair dot com mentions a diagnostic code P0457. Searching this forum the only hit I get is this thread so I guess I am the first? Or more likely my search skills aren't good. Looking in Ford forums I find out P0457 is an evap leak detected after an increase in fuel level. If you have an existing evap leak you would get a P0455 and/or P0456. If you then add gas you additionally get a P0457. I checked pending codes and voila, P0456 and P0455.

 

There is an additional "EVAP canister close valve" near fuel tank: Link

(You think about ground cables between chassis and engine/transmission, too?)

catfondler

 

dh53, because of having multiple errors all happen at the same time that are not related to each other, I would be looking at the battery cables personally. You can do my battery cable check to see if you have a hot cable (with the motor cold, start the engine, turn on as many electrical devices as you can to draw as much power as possible, let sit for 5 minutes like that, then turn off the car and cup your hand over the battery terminals, see if they are warm or egg frying hot). The only other "commonality" between all these codes is the ECU. But, because of the randomness of the codes, I would not suspect that at this point in time.

 

I have to admit I rejected electrical problems due to physically smelling gas. Today's list: battery cable test. The positive cable is new but maybe the negative/ground cable...do those go bad too? I also plan to pull the purge valve and spray carb cleaner in it and verify it is working. Then I'll clean the 2 ground connections for the battery charging system. According to the electrical diagrams the charging system and the engine management do not share any ground connections so at this point I am thinking the fuel pressure/evap leak is 1 problem and the battery charging system is a 2nd problem coincidentally 2 miles after the CEL.

 

If you pull the purge valve hose from the manifold and hang it freely in the engine compartment (and close the manifold connector), you could drive normally and check for CEL / DTCs.
I suspect that the EVAP DTCs come from detecting of follow-up effects (O2 values).

catfondler

 

Removed battery, removed and cleaned negative cable to trans (in the workshop manual it is G13 "engine ground"?). Turned the bolt on the other negative cable connection to chassis, G16. Twisted the head off the bolt. Remove fuse box, remove sheet metal battery support, attempt to drill out old bolt...no way. In 45 minutes with 2 sharp bits I had managed to drill about a millimeter into that bolt. Gave up. Cleaned the 2 smaller ground connections there under the battery (G11, G32). Sanded down to bare metal at one of the bolts that holds that battery sheet metal support and placed chassis ground there, about an inch away from original location. Put everything back together. Removed purge valve, tested ok, replaced.

Measured battery cable temperatures at the battery terminal, both 19 C. Ran car at idle with seat heaters, radio, lights, and rear defrost on for 8 minutes then measured battery cable temp again. Positive was 25 C, negative was 22 C.

While I had the hood open and the engine idling I could smell gas. The nose said it was on the trans side of the engine. Got a flashlight in there and saw liquid and managed to get a long cotton swab down there. Gasoline. Looks like cylinder 5 fuel injector is leaking from the bottom O-ring.

Today's question: would a leaky injector O-ring have anything to do with either a P0193 high fuel pressure code or an evap leak code P0455,P0456, P0457?? Or is this fuel leak an unrelated problem?

 

For reference my original battery cables doing the same Thermo test went up 6 deg C in under a minute and went up 24 deg C in 2 minutes. So my cables are good now.

 

A comment from the cheap seats.....I can't think how a leaking injector O ring could contribute to throwing either of those code sequences as it is on the low pressure side of fuel delivery to manifold.

The P0193 high pressure has to come from either fuel rail pressure too high- which is either:-

1. The fuel pressure sensor telling the fuel pump to overdrive, or a loom fault creating a misread of that fuel pressure.
2. Or a fuel pump control module problem.

The fuel pump itself probably can't create this as it is a slave device to the aforementioned systems and as such could only create low pressure codes if it were running inefficiently. It can't turn itself on harder or be too efficient without the pressure sensor and controller just compensating for it's performance automatically.

Evap codes - you are entering into the Witchdoctor realm....sticky valves, pipe leaks, tank air leak through filler cap or perhaps if you have a subtle leak around the fuel pump gasket.
Does your tank vacuum down? Do you get the normal "Ghasp" when you open your fuel cap after a run?

 

I heard a very loud ghasp when I read your message saying I have a fuel leak problem, an evap leak problem, a fuel pressure problem, and a battery charging problem all at the same time and all unrelated.

I haven't heard a ghasp from the fuel tank ever so... fill the tank with smoke from the $25 smoke machines on YouTube? It seems risky to send pressurized air and smoke into a gas tank.

 

Sorry dh53...not trying to freak you out...just trying to wrap my head around the error codes you have posted, and your question about the weeping O ring on #5 injector.
I think a hard "No" to the smoke injection into the tank....let's leave the fiery launches into outer space to the professionals at NASA and SpaceX please.

I am assuming none of the parts you ordered have arrived and been fitted yet (fuel pressure sensor and gas cap) as it has only been a few days since your first post on this thread. So unsure what codes you are still wrangling with here.

Just was wondering if your Evap issue might be triggered by an incorrectly seated fuel pump seal (didn't you just replace your fuel pump which led to you having those fuel pressure problems at startup due to the replacement pump's non-return valve leaking)?
I have noticed that my fuel tank does have a negative pressure often present when I release the fuel cap and I hear a distinct "Ghasp" as the tank vacuum equalizes to atmosphere.

Not to mention the Ghasp I give with the blinkin pump price here......over $2.35/Lt NZD at the moment.
Over $130 NZD to fill the car from empty, but at least the petrol stations have fuel in the forecourt tanks, unlike the situation in the UK at the moment...sorry to all our brothers and sisters struggling with that situation there.....feeling for you.

 

So it appears I have a fuel leak that was already there but must have recently gotten worse, coincidentally getting my attention on the same day I got a check engine light for high fuel rail pressure and an evap leak 2 or 3 miles before my charging system light came on and they are all unrelated.

Charging system was fixed (knock on wood) with replacing the high resistance wire supplying power to the alternator field described in this thread.

Fuel leak is from a ripped injector upper O-ring.




Ordered 6 x new uppers and lowers, received 5 x seals plus one box with the same part number and description but containing a dirty old fuel injector with no seals. Waiting on one set of O-rings to rebuild. O-rings discussed here.

I disregarded Mark's advice, common sense, and any thoughts for my own safety and built a hill-billy smoke machine for about $25. Sealed container with a little mineral oil mixed with UV dye ($6), take a tiki torch wick ($2) wrapped with nichrome heating wire ($9), add a barbed hose connection ($1) and a tire valve stem ($3). The idea is the wick soaks up the oil and the dye, you apply power to heat the nichrome and the oil will smoke. Oil smokes well below it's ignition temperature so it is sorta safe. I used a clear container and a variable DC supply (and very long leads) and gradually upped the power to the nichrome wire until I had smoke. Tested by hand to make sure by the time it gets out the end of the tube it is no longer hot. Then I piped the output of my smoke machine to where the carbon canister close valve vents to atmosphere. Attached a bicycle pump to the smoke machine tire valve stem and gave it a few pumps, then a few more while looking for smoke coming out. I found none but was reluctant to increase pressure so I got out my new UV flashlight ($5) and looked around and found a cracked evap hose glowing with UV dye. The cracked hose is at the connection to some sort of canister between the charcoal canister and the canister close valve, I don't see it on any parts diagrams but it is roughly where the red X is in the diagram below. About the size and shape of a small can of soup.




I wrapped the joint with self fusing silicone tape.

Since everything is apart and I have the high fuel rail pressure code I replaced the fuel rail pressure regulator. Waiting on one more set of o-rings to see if any of my problems went away.

 

Hey dh53,

Nice work on the home-built smoke machine.
Really glad you are still with us to regale us with your adventure.
I caught myself out doing a jerry can repair years ago, empty, open, but with just enough residual vapour lurking to become quite humorous!

Some really good sleuthing......
Now you have had your "three in a row" events, I am really hoping you might get some happy trouble free motoring in for a while.

 

No explosions yet but when disconnecting the battery last week I was reminded why the ground wire should come off first. A few sparks and a jump in heart rate but no damage. I'm a little dense, I have to relearn that every couple years. I once worked with an engineer who was designing a hard copper bus bar for some golf cart type batteries so he needed exact dimensions on the battery terminals. Took a set of stainless steel calipers and attempted to measure the distance between the battery terminals. The calipers shot across the room and embedded into the plaster wall and he needed a couple of band-aids, an ice pack for the burns, and had to take the rest of the day off. Next day he calls the battery manufacturer and asks them for the dimension...good thinking.

 

dh53, thanks for the good laugh about your engineer friend. I can see what happening and I work with some engineers like that. So, I know and seen the story too many times that it shouldn't be funny any more (but it still is). Sounding like you are getting things narrowed down. Hopefully with a little more work, you will have it all back together and the kitty purring again. Just no stupid stunts on your end. Leave that to the professionals (engineers).