I have done ATF full flushes on S-Type and X308. I did that by removing the pipe, that goes into the radiator and comes from the transmission. I just noticed that the radiator of the X-Type has (on the left bottom corner) two pipes, which connect to the transmission. So I would imagine that it should be possible to do an ATF full flush on the X-Type as well - what strucks me strange is that I have never seen that somebody did that. Normally - on X-Type- you mix old with new ATF, release it again, and fill up again and release again and fill up again. That seems to be a waste of ATF with a non-optimal result...

So has someone ever done the full flush via the radiator hose(s)?

 

Peter, you will still have fluid left in the torque converter if you pull the hoses. So, no, there is no way for you to do a "completed drain" wiithout drilling a hole in the torque converter and installing a drain plug there.

 

What about if I remove those 2 pipes and (after releasing whatever ATF flows out "voluntarily") blow pressurized air into those 2 pipes?

 

Peter, go ahead and try. Any more that you can get out is going to be that much more of a flush. I want to say that the tranny takes 8quarts (7.5 liters) of fluid when it is dry. So, if you measure how much you get out, if you get more than about 3 quarts of fluid, you are getting out more than others have. I would just hate to see you say start the engine and put the tranny in gear to push fluid out, but then run it with no fluid at all and damage something.

 

Yes, thanks, I am aware that the transmission should not be run without ATF.
I may add, that I did that already briefly without causing damage:
That was really stupid: I was a bit over-confident and too hasty and wanted to do a quick engine oil change...
I knew exactly, which release plug is ATF and which is engine oil.
Nevertheless, I drained the ATF... - and refilled 6L of engine-oil into the engine...
So I had next to no ATF, but 12L of engine oil in there - amazing that all the oil fitted in.
Not surprisingly the car would not move... - but I figured it out quickly...

I am wondering - would it be on the X-Type like on the S-Type or X308?:
On those, I can drain the ATF by the release plug, then fill the new ATF by the side and starting the engine would push out the remainder of the old TF out by the open pipe (to the radiator).

So is the internal design of the X-Type transmission JATCO jf506e such, that after releasing the old ATF by the drain plug, would the new ATF filled in from above occupy that exact same space as the old ATF before (without mixing with the remaining old ATF in there) so that the new fluid would push out (when engine runs) the remaining old ATF from the torque converter via those pipes (as on S-Type and X308)?

 

Peter, you are comparing an AWD (essentially a FWD transmission) with a RWD transmission. I do not think you are going to have too much that is going to be in common. SO, I would not try to draw any references between the two vehicles.

As for the mixing of fluids, from what I understand, as soon as you start adding fluid, you are going to get mixing. This is why some guys do multiple drain and fills because each time they get a bit more old fluid out. If you assume you get out half the fluid, with 1 drain and fill, you have 50% new/50% old fluid. If you do 2 drain and fills, you have 75% new/25% old fluid. You do 3 drain and fills, you have 88% new fluid/12% old fluid. So, at what percent of new fluid are you happy? Besides, if I understand the internals of the X-TYpe transmission, if you have the fill and drain plugs removed at the same time, as you pour in new fluid, it would go through a single area of the tranny and go right out the drain plug. So, you would have very minimal exchanging of fluids. I do not see that as a good thing.

 

@ Thermo: I do know about the 50%, 75% method. No good, that is why I try to find a better solution. To answer your question:
>>> So, at what percent of new fluid are you happy?
Close to 100% in one go.
The thing is: The correct ATF for the Jatco jf506e is not avaiable in Australia. I have wrong multi-vehicle ATF in there. I found a source of Fuchs Titan 4400, and I believe that this is a better option. So I am about to fill Fuchs in (as soon as I have it (the shop sources it currently)) to replace a completely different ATF and one should not mix ATFs.

I am not sure what you meant with "both plugs open". Obviously I would close the release plug before filling, and what I am wondering is still, if that new ATF would remain isolated from the ATF caught in the torque converter, and if starting the engine would then push out the old fluid by one of the 2 pipes.

And yes, it is a FWD, not an AWD. The 2.1L is FWD (2.5 and 3L are AWD).

PS: I also have a 2.5L X-Type, which is AWD, and which has an identical Jatco transmission. Coupled to THAT Jatco is a transfer box, which makes it an AWD.
Thus, when I figure out, how to do a full flush on one X-Type, I will also know for the other...

This also means that - even though I do not think the 2.0L (called like that for GB-tax reasons, which is identical to the 2.1L in Australia, which is really 2099ccm) has not been sold in the US, that you do have that same Jatco jf506e transmission in other X-Type version (but not in all X-Type) in the US, plus in plenty of other cars, like:
Rover, Land Rover, Ford, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen and Seat. This gearbox is known as 09A / 09B on VW vehicles.

 

~7 years ago when I bought my X-type with roughly 140K miles, I did my version of a full flush. I connected a clear tube from the cooler return to a 5 gallon bucket and drained the pan refilled with fresh fluid. I had my assistant run the engine for about 30 seconds while I poured in new fluid and watched the output. With the engine stopped I refilled the pan, before restart. It was right around 9+ quarts when it changed from dark to clear fluid coming out, so I feel that that is is a pretty good method to flush the old fluid.

I used Amsoil Signature Series ATF, and it has shifted and driven perfectly since then. Granted I always leave it in sport mode, because it doesn't shift well otherwise, but that isn't because of the fluid.

There are some cases where the drain-fill method works, and I have used that on my Honda 5-speed transaxle every 20K miles because it was more of an issue of keeping the fluid clean and the additives fresh in addition to using a synthetic that would tolerated the heat better.

However, drain-fill doesn't work well for flushing 100K+ mile fluid, which is past it's useful life and should not remain in the trans. Let's say you have 3 quarts in the pan, 4-5 quarts in the converter, 1/2 quart in the cooler path, 1/2 quart in the pump and valve body, and 1/2 quart distributed throughout the rest of the trans, you are pulling only about 1/3 of the total fluid at best when you drain the pan only. If you get perfect mixing, the second time, you are still only getting 1/3 or 2/3 of the old fluid which is only around 20%. So with 2 drain/fills, you have removed a little over 50% of the old fluid, and you keep getting diminishing returns from there.

 

Thanks Michael for the suggestion. Maybe I do it that way. First I will try. if blowing compressed air in my the pipes does anything.

You are driving in Sports mode, because it does not shift well otherwise? You already indicated yourself, that that is because of the ATF you are using...:
The kin. viscosity of the ATF you are using is too low (it is too "liquid").

Here are the MSDSs;

Your ATF has Kinematic viscosity 30.8 cSt at 40 ºC and 6.3 cSt at 100 ºC, thus KV40=30.8 & KV100=6.3
https://wboil.com/amsoil-msds/ATL-msds-sheet.html
I assume you also have the Jatco jf506e transmission? That is a 5 speed transmission. Your ATF is a multi vehicle ATF, which is something, which I would try to avoid, as it makes lots of compromises to be suitable for pretty much every transmission, and by doing so, they have a product, which is NOT suitable for anything. And apart from that, the KV of your ATF goes more in the direction of an ATF for 6 speed auto-transmissions.

The ATF, which I will use for the Jatco jf506e is Fuchs Titan 4400: In one data-sheet I found it say it is KV40=34, but here it says it is KV40=37.3:
https://sds.chemtel.net/docs/Fuchs%2...17_English.pdf
Yes, this Fuchs is also a multi-vehicle ATF, but it does not make wild claims like being suitable for 5 and 6 speed at the same time. And the correct ATF is not available in Australia. Where I can buy the correct ATF (for ZF 6hp26 (S-Type) and ZF 5hp24 (X308)), I do that (which is Lifeguard 6 and Lifeguard 5).

The optimal ATF for Jatco jf506e would be eg Ravenol ATF JF506E: KV40=35
https://www.ravenol.de/storage/app/u...119_en_ALL.pdf

 

If you blow air in the direction of flow starting before the cooler you will get a little extra fluid out into the pan for draining, but probably not much (i.e. whatever is in the cooler and the return line and maybe a little in the return passages which haven't drained to the pan already).

If you blow air against the direction of flow, you will get nothing without a lot of pressure, because the system is designed to pump fluid regardless of some air flowing back against. With high pressure you may be able to open the bypass and push some fluid back into the pan, but I think damage is highly likely.

 

I think we can agree that IDEMITSU K17(Jatco 3100 PL085) is the fluid type originally designed for the x-type transmission, and that Ravenol ATF JF506E is designed to be closely equivalent to the original spec fluid, but that does not make it the optimal fluid. Since the time of the development of the J-fluid and the X-type, there have been many improvements in both ATF fluid and in the spec requirements. Amsoil MV ATF does claim to comply with IDEMITSU K17 (as does Ravenol ATF JF506E) but if you don't accept their claim you will have to address that with them not me. There are others x-type owners here using the Amsoil MV ATF with good results. I am generally skeptical of multi-use fluids, but Amsoil has a great track record here and I think is really at the front of the pack not only for MV ATF, but specifically for best 100K-mile ATF performance in our x-type transmissions.

Jaguar actually recommends (or did recommend back in 2004), a variety of fluids for the x-type including Shell M1375.4 (aka Lifeguard 6) which has very low kinematic viscosity of 26.8 cSt @ 40C and 5.6 cSt @ 100C. So Jaguar recommends a fluid which is even lower than your too low kinematic viscosity limit. The truth is that kinematic viscosity is just a measure of the effect of gravity on the fluid flow, which is pretty much an unimportant measure for ATF performance. The critical measure is the film strength, the dynamic viscosity, the viscosity stability, the resistance to foaming and temperature breakdown, etc. Measure for dynamic viscosity is ASTM D2983, so anyone that publishes their results probably have a good fluid that performs well under pressure.

While I do agree with Jaguar that the lower viscosity ATF (specifically Lifeguard 6) is a good ATF and will still perform appropriately, given a choice, I still prefer the higher viscosity of Amsoil ATF. Not that it really matters, but the Amsoil ATF has a higher KV of 38.5 @40C and 7.5 @100C than all of the Jaguar recommended fluids. I suspect it is higher than the Ravenol, but they haven't published any useful specs. More importantly the Amsoil ATF has a higher dynamic viscosity and a lower wear test measure versus the comparable lower kinematic fluids.

 

I shouldn't have mentioned my preference for Sports mode, because it isn't relevant to flushing the transmission. I guess it is relevant to my happiness with how the trans performs, but what I am really complaining about is the control of the transmission, so it is a caveat to when I say everything transmission wise works well. I think what I was trying to say was that the ATF works great, even if I don't like things about the transmission that have nothing to do with the fluid performance. I do type terribly slow and mistype, skip words, or even skip complete thoughts and entire paragraphs worth of consciousness.

 

I see you have done your homework: I remembered Ravenol, and knew there was another one: yes Idemitsu K17, which I think has changed it's name - is that maybe Idemitsu J-Fluid, which you mentioned? I also heard this about Lifeguard 6, but this does not convince me either, as this is more for 6 gear gear and Jatco is 5 gear. Or was lifeguard 5 the recommendation? This would make more sense...
Just one thing: I found in the MSDS that your Amsoil has KV40=30.8 and your write KV40=38.5?

Yes, when I blow the air in, I will blow it very carefully to avoid damage. On the X308 I was successful with that method.

 

i have 230,000 miles on my transmission ,all i do is a drain and fill 2 times each year and its still silky smooth , no hi tech gadgets just drain and fill ,twice a year, any yes i no i don't get it all out ,this what works for me ,but do your own thing what works for you
I'm also on the stock transfer case and use royal purple

 

MSDS of your Royal Purple Max:
https://robco.com/fr/component/easyf...G2RWWiP1_w71tH

KV40=35.5 is in the correct range. I know that this kind of data does not say much, but it is a small indicator and easy to find.

2 times a year... - that is heaps!

 

I think Dennis means he's changing the AFT each year, but doing a double drain refill to get a good majority refreshed.

 

twice at one occasion during 1 year OR once at two occasions per year are still "two times a year"... .and it is still heaps...

 

whether its heaps or not ,it works for me ,and still on the original transmission ,and no issues easy job to do, took a 24hr drive to Florida and purrs like a cat, like i said do what works for you this works for me ,im going for 300,000 miles on my cat

 

Living in USA, I was able to get the Ravenol JF506E. I do something similar to Dennis and drain, top-up the transmission at every oil change. I'm sure that's plenty on a box supposedly sealed for life. The original post is about a full flush do to changing fluids since the OEM stuff isn't available in Australia. According to Wikipedia, the same gearbox is also used in VWs, Mitsubishi, Audi, Mazda, Ford, Land Rover - presumably with the same fluid as Jaguar? Do any of the dealers for the other marques have the right fluid? That might avoid need for a 100% full flush. Hope this is useful!

 

Hi, Thanks, I know that the Jatco JF506E is used in many vehicles. That does not change the fact that Idemitsu K17 (apparently now called Type J) and Ravenol JF506E are the 2 ATF of choice. All the OEM ATFs would be rebranded ATFs of Idemitsu K17. And I even checked that, even thought that would be prohibitively expensive, but still not available. But I settled with an ATF, where I have good hope that it is pretty suitable: Fuchs Titan 4400 - I bought 40L, as I have 2 X-Type with Jatco JF506E. But my question was not about which ATF.

The issue is that one should not mix different kinds of ATF. And I have a multi-vehicle ATF in there, which I do not trust (the manufacturer made ridiculous claims like e.g. it being suitable ilo. Lifeguard 5 AND Lifeguard 6, which is an impossibility, due to totally different kin, viscosities. Thus, I want to get ALL of it out and NOT MIX it with the new ATF at all.

This is the reason for the question of my thread. Obviously, if there is such a method, I would always use it, because a drain and fill means that old fluid remains in the system and will mix with the new fluid, which would be the same as releasing the old engine oil, filling half of the old oil right back in again and topping it up with new engine oil. Nobody would do that.

I guess doing 2 of the drain and fill procedures every year would be good for the transmission, but I see that as very wasteful and expensive, especially as a proper (=full flush) ATF change every - lets say - 50.000 or 60.000 miles should be plenty.

>> I'm sure that's plenty on a box supposedly sealed for life.
Again: There no such thing as "sealed for life". It was a marketing slogan of vehicle manufacturers ignoring the advise of the transmission manufacturers!