Gasoline Grade
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Too much to read... but interesting
Well let me try to explain although I am no expert. We have here temperature ranges from 100+F in the summer to -40F in the winter. We have a few fuel companies selling winter gas. Basically it's a gas and ethanol mix that promotes cleaner burn, reduces carbon monoxide and is usually sold in the winter months because cold engines operate less efficiently and produce more carbon monoxide. I notice no difference in power or consumption when I come across this fuel but I do notice a different smell... not anything big but just different. I guess because it burns hotter and the air outside is cold.
Cheers,
As for a good read on gas...
http://new.api.org/aboutoilgas/gasol...ine-octane.cfm
Cheers,
As for a good read on gas...
http://new.api.org/aboutoilgas/gasol...ine-octane.cfm
#22
RE: Too much to read... but interesting
I don't know why the Jag dealer would tell you to use 89 in your neck of the woods....doesn't sound right....maybe he was just trying to be nice and save you a few bucks.....??
1. Good advise from a non gasoline expert..........sweeet
2. You taking it and pocketing the few cents you saved.......even sweeeter
3. The look on your face after your engine destroys itself......Priceless!
Just messing.....You seem to have all the facts (according to your posts) so why do you think you can use 89?
Personally, just last night, the wife and I took an 8 hour drive to Pennsylvania....(nice long quality time with the wife.) Anyway, filled up with 94, I normally use 93, and one word...WOW....
The car was performing sweeet....every time....acceleration was wow...noticeable wow! Filled up 3x last night with it...awesome...and at 2.49 it isn't cheap I suppose compared to my normal 2.29 but well worth the extra fun! The exhaust even made a differnt tone..according to the wife...she wanted to know if i did anything....now that's noticable boys..when the wife asks that question...you know you're not imagining it...
________
FAKE WEED
1. Good advise from a non gasoline expert..........sweeet
2. You taking it and pocketing the few cents you saved.......even sweeeter
3. The look on your face after your engine destroys itself......Priceless!
Just messing.....You seem to have all the facts (according to your posts) so why do you think you can use 89?
Personally, just last night, the wife and I took an 8 hour drive to Pennsylvania....(nice long quality time with the wife.) Anyway, filled up with 94, I normally use 93, and one word...WOW....
The car was performing sweeet....every time....acceleration was wow...noticeable wow! Filled up 3x last night with it...awesome...and at 2.49 it isn't cheap I suppose compared to my normal 2.29 but well worth the extra fun! The exhaust even made a differnt tone..according to the wife...she wanted to know if i did anything....now that's noticable boys..when the wife asks that question...you know you're not imagining it...
________
FAKE WEED
Last edited by racerx82; 05-17-2011 at 07:50 AM.
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
94 octane is not enough
Road trip.
I'm glad that you enjoyed the quality time with your wife. I'm just waiting for the kids to clear off so that we can do the same (several years yet I suspect....).
94 Octane
Now you can understand why I am so frustrated with the fuel over here (the US), when I'm used to buying 95 Octane at my local garage, supermarket or wherever and can get 98 Octane for a small amount extra. Mind you I'm not frustrated about the price (in Holland its currently Euro 1.30 a liter which is roughly $6.50 a US gallon).
89 Octane
I agree with your comments, I don't trust the advice at the moment. I know I'm safe with 91, but I'm new to (a) the extreme cold in the winter (b) the idea of radically different winter fuel (c) fuel of such a quality it gums up your motorbike carburettors during winter storage.
However - there's a clue in the recent reply - ethanol. I will investigate further (ethanol has significantly different combustion properties).
Cheers, Graham
I'm glad that you enjoyed the quality time with your wife. I'm just waiting for the kids to clear off so that we can do the same (several years yet I suspect....).
94 Octane
Now you can understand why I am so frustrated with the fuel over here (the US), when I'm used to buying 95 Octane at my local garage, supermarket or wherever and can get 98 Octane for a small amount extra. Mind you I'm not frustrated about the price (in Holland its currently Euro 1.30 a liter which is roughly $6.50 a US gallon).
89 Octane
I agree with your comments, I don't trust the advice at the moment. I know I'm safe with 91, but I'm new to (a) the extreme cold in the winter (b) the idea of radically different winter fuel (c) fuel of such a quality it gums up your motorbike carburettors during winter storage.
However - there's a clue in the recent reply - ethanol. I will investigate further (ethanol has significantly different combustion properties).
Cheers, Graham
#24
RE: 94 octane is not enough
OH GOD DON"T DO IT! Ethanol is cheap (poor gas mileage, poor performance, and over all crappy, compared to gasoline...plus side it's cheap...I guess people feel better spending 1.29 a gallon) and your engine\fuel system has to be capable in supporting the ethanol fuel. I don't think Jag is in anyway capable of running with that fuel.
As for high fuel costs...I lived in Italy for 4 years, paying 4 dollars per gallon, when it was 99 cents here!! The good part was that they (Italians) only offer one grade of fuel!
I personally think you'll be fine with 91 octane....
There is no way around the fuel cost problem...well yes there is. Park your car and walk or ride your bicycle or take public transportation.
Unless we all unite (like in the 70's) and stop buying gas for just on one day (the same day across the states) will we be heard. Right now the gas companies don't feel the pain....record profits in the billions...people driving huge SUVS with monster v-8's to the local store....are not sending the right message...nobody is complaining......we are all paying the price they want us to pay.....
Anyway...don't wanna get too far off here...but I'm sure you know what the heck i mean...
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA
As for high fuel costs...I lived in Italy for 4 years, paying 4 dollars per gallon, when it was 99 cents here!! The good part was that they (Italians) only offer one grade of fuel!
I personally think you'll be fine with 91 octane....
There is no way around the fuel cost problem...well yes there is. Park your car and walk or ride your bicycle or take public transportation.
Unless we all unite (like in the 70's) and stop buying gas for just on one day (the same day across the states) will we be heard. Right now the gas companies don't feel the pain....record profits in the billions...people driving huge SUVS with monster v-8's to the local store....are not sending the right message...nobody is complaining......we are all paying the price they want us to pay.....
Anyway...don't wanna get too far off here...but I'm sure you know what the heck i mean...
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA
Last edited by racerx82; 05-17-2011 at 07:50 AM.
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ethanol
Don't worry I don't necessarily want to use ethanol (I've had experience in engineering for the Brazilian market, I know what flex fuels can do). But if the oil companies are reformulating their fuels for the winter with ethanol, I want to research it and work out what that means.
Ethanol may also explain the comment earlier about gas stations putting water in the fuel - the two are so miscible that it is impossible to eliminate water from ethanol (from memory, pure research grade ethanol is only about 96% pure).
I'm sure that the Jaguar engine is flex fuel compatible; the manual says up to 10%.
Anyway, I'm off to sample some ethanol soon at the hotel. Cheers!
Ethanol may also explain the comment earlier about gas stations putting water in the fuel - the two are so miscible that it is impossible to eliminate water from ethanol (from memory, pure research grade ethanol is only about 96% pure).
I'm sure that the Jaguar engine is flex fuel compatible; the manual says up to 10%.
Anyway, I'm off to sample some ethanol soon at the hotel. Cheers!
#26
RE: Too much to read... but interesting
Last edited by racerx82; 05-17-2011 at 07:51 AM.
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Winter fuel grade
Well this is an incomplete reply, but the best I can do for now.
As far as I can tell the fuel is reformulated for winter to assist the suspension of condensed water in the atmosphere freezing in the tank. I can imagine there are some anti-waxing agents in there as well. Certainly the freezing of water or waxing of the fuel lines is bad news, and I can imagine if a vehicle isn't used very much, the water will collect at the low points in the system (i.e the tank and perhaps the lines below the floorpan) and freeze.
So my guess is that one piece of advice would be not to let your tank run down completely, in case the fuel pick up encounters collected ice (I have no experience to know whether this actually happens, but I do know that the tank pickup is at the lowest point, and usually involves a gauze type material to "wick" up the last of the fuel).
In really cold weather, the air density increases and so theoretically more oxygen enters the combustion chamber each cycle and you get more power. The automatic instinct is that more power = more potential for knock, so use a higher Octane fuel. However, in this wonderful world of ECU managed engines, knock sensors greatly reduce this risk. Also Jaguar use engine dynos to establish the knock limits and "map" all possible regions within the engine operating range; the eventual vehicle calibration is backed off to a safe limit away from this point.
One feature of lower Octane fuels is that there are less additives to combat knock, and by implication the fuel can burn under more marginal conditions. So under really cold conditions, a lower Octane fuel would help the engine start, and if you are only using the vehicle for short journeys, the faster warm up that may result would be a good thing. I can't imagine that the difference is large, but it may help long term carbon build up or injector clogging.
As an aside, my X type doesn't seem to have the air assisted fuel injectors that are used on the S type and the XJ (there is a passage for air which is blown tangentially onto the injector mist, helping the fuel atomisation process) , and I can imagine that their operating tolerance envelope is narrower. I discussed this with the local dealer and they confirmed that they had more injector problems with the X type than the others...
In conclusion, when I know that I'm only going to be trundling around the suburds of Detroit, I'll try 89 Octane this winter. When I know I'm heading out somewhere, I'll fill up with premium again.
As far as I can tell the fuel is reformulated for winter to assist the suspension of condensed water in the atmosphere freezing in the tank. I can imagine there are some anti-waxing agents in there as well. Certainly the freezing of water or waxing of the fuel lines is bad news, and I can imagine if a vehicle isn't used very much, the water will collect at the low points in the system (i.e the tank and perhaps the lines below the floorpan) and freeze.
So my guess is that one piece of advice would be not to let your tank run down completely, in case the fuel pick up encounters collected ice (I have no experience to know whether this actually happens, but I do know that the tank pickup is at the lowest point, and usually involves a gauze type material to "wick" up the last of the fuel).
In really cold weather, the air density increases and so theoretically more oxygen enters the combustion chamber each cycle and you get more power. The automatic instinct is that more power = more potential for knock, so use a higher Octane fuel. However, in this wonderful world of ECU managed engines, knock sensors greatly reduce this risk. Also Jaguar use engine dynos to establish the knock limits and "map" all possible regions within the engine operating range; the eventual vehicle calibration is backed off to a safe limit away from this point.
One feature of lower Octane fuels is that there are less additives to combat knock, and by implication the fuel can burn under more marginal conditions. So under really cold conditions, a lower Octane fuel would help the engine start, and if you are only using the vehicle for short journeys, the faster warm up that may result would be a good thing. I can't imagine that the difference is large, but it may help long term carbon build up or injector clogging.
As an aside, my X type doesn't seem to have the air assisted fuel injectors that are used on the S type and the XJ (there is a passage for air which is blown tangentially onto the injector mist, helping the fuel atomisation process) , and I can imagine that their operating tolerance envelope is narrower. I discussed this with the local dealer and they confirmed that they had more injector problems with the X type than the others...
In conclusion, when I know that I'm only going to be trundling around the suburds of Detroit, I'll try 89 Octane this winter. When I know I'm heading out somewhere, I'll fill up with premium again.
#28
RE: Too much to read... but interesting
Cool info..
You mention that the X type has more injector problems than the others....probably due to people not putting in the correct octane..?
________
Lamborghini bravo specifications
You mention that the X type has more injector problems than the others....probably due to people not putting in the correct octane..?
________
Lamborghini bravo specifications
Last edited by racerx82; 05-17-2011 at 07:57 AM.
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Injector clogging
I don't know about the fuel being a factor. The market in Detroit is different from the rest of the USA; almost everyone (including me) can get "employee discount" (4% below invoice), and the OEM managers get lease cars and free fuel.
One ramification of this is that there are a lot of Ford employees who get a Jaguar X type with free fuel, because they can.... These car drivers will not worry about the cost of fuel and will just put the high grade in. They seem to be especially popular as second cars, and during the week some of the malls seem like Jaguar factory car parks (Ford wives shopping club). So I suspect that the duty cycle these vehicles see is local shopping, and for the weekend trips its back to the Excursion and polluting the planet.
If misfuelling / ignorance is a factor, I would argue that this would equally apply to all Jaguars, and therefore the difference must be the hardware and perhaps the duty cycle.
I know some of the correspondants on this forum are from Canada; I'd be interested in their input.
One ramification of this is that there are a lot of Ford employees who get a Jaguar X type with free fuel, because they can.... These car drivers will not worry about the cost of fuel and will just put the high grade in. They seem to be especially popular as second cars, and during the week some of the malls seem like Jaguar factory car parks (Ford wives shopping club). So I suspect that the duty cycle these vehicles see is local shopping, and for the weekend trips its back to the Excursion and polluting the planet.
If misfuelling / ignorance is a factor, I would argue that this would equally apply to all Jaguars, and therefore the difference must be the hardware and perhaps the duty cycle.
I know some of the correspondants on this forum are from Canada; I'd be interested in their input.
#30
RE: Injector clogging
Good point.
On another note, what have you heard about Ford/jag stopping production on the X-type? I heard that 07 is the last year due to low sales.
I went to trade mine in the other day for the new M3 BMW and they didn't want to waste their time looking at the X type, they said they couldn't sell it if they gave it away....or something like that.
________
Wiki vaporizer
On another note, what have you heard about Ford/jag stopping production on the X-type? I heard that 07 is the last year due to low sales.
I went to trade mine in the other day for the new M3 BMW and they didn't want to waste their time looking at the X type, they said they couldn't sell it if they gave it away....or something like that.
________
Wiki vaporizer
Last edited by racerx82; 05-17-2011 at 07:58 AM.
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
#33
RE: Gasoline Grade
Wonder why they said they couldn't even sell a jag if they tried? What the guy meant was he couldn't put $5,000 on top of the sticker price and be able to tell the consumer where to go and how to shove it!!! My boss laughed at a bmw dealer when she found out how much they wanted for a bmw x5 suv! He said 950 a month or something like that and she did one of those sarcastic laugh in your face laughs and said your crazy. After that they knocked it down to 600 after she laughed! Needless to say she still didn't buy it! Instead she went and bought an Infinity!
#34
#35
RE: Gasoline Grade
The 3 series to me are nice cars. I'm not necessarily a ford guy or gm guy or really anything like that. I drive what I like for the price I get and the looks it has. I'm a ford guy if it comes to trucks and perhaps suvs. I love gm cars but lately I can't say I like too many of their cars I used to like the monte's and the impala and bonneville but don't care for the g6's grand prixs. Also love the 3.8 liter engine but they are straying away from the engine I love. Anyways I wanted a 3 series bmw since the base on them is just below 30 grand. But when I shopped for cars and than found my wife was pregnant the jag was the only answer. I took many things into consideration when buying it though. Many people dogged on jags for the reliability of these cars but just looking at them and than factoring in abs, tcs, all-wheel drive, and jag factor I knew one of these cars would be mine once I found one that pleased me as far as price, look, mileage, color, model, and shape. I've had problems with the car but the overall google factor on this car is worth it! I take pride in every vehicle I have and try to take care of them the best I can. If its dirty I wash whether its going to rain or not!
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