Gearbox Fault
#1
08-16-2021, 09:17 AM
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Gearbox Fault
Good Morning,
First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to embark on an attempt to assist me-- if you may.
I have recently bought a 2004 Jaguar X-Type 3.0 AWD, with the automatic. As soon as I had bought it, I had the back drivers side wheel bearing, axels, and brakes replaced all the way around. I noticed a very slow water pump leak, and have just begun locating a new water pump to be delivered as most part stores here on the Cape don't carry Jaguar parts in stock. I drove to a doctors appointment, and on the way back, I noticed that upon it about to shift into 3rd gear, the transmission slips, and then suddenly slams itself into gear. When merging, or accelerating, it "hunts" for a gear, before slamming into a gear at 4k-5k rpm. Once the vehicle slows as you get off the highway, a little orange light appears followed by "Gearbox Fault" but no check engine light. It shifts into all the gears fine (meaning PRND) . What should I look for to replace? From what I have read online so far, this appears to be somewhat common.
I have the thought to check the transmission fluid, as well as the fluid in the differential and transfer case-- But how? And what is the location? I don't notice that any other gears are having an issue. I opened the hood, and do not notice any fluid pooling up however with the airbox and everything in place, it is all pretty close together-- Making it difficult to notice if anything has pooled.
Also, hasn't been into limp mode. I am confused and worried. Any assistance will be of great appreciation.
First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to embark on an attempt to assist me-- if you may.
I have recently bought a 2004 Jaguar X-Type 3.0 AWD, with the automatic. As soon as I had bought it, I had the back drivers side wheel bearing, axels, and brakes replaced all the way around. I noticed a very slow water pump leak, and have just begun locating a new water pump to be delivered as most part stores here on the Cape don't carry Jaguar parts in stock. I drove to a doctors appointment, and on the way back, I noticed that upon it about to shift into 3rd gear, the transmission slips, and then suddenly slams itself into gear. When merging, or accelerating, it "hunts" for a gear, before slamming into a gear at 4k-5k rpm. Once the vehicle slows as you get off the highway, a little orange light appears followed by "Gearbox Fault" but no check engine light. It shifts into all the gears fine (meaning PRND) . What should I look for to replace? From what I have read online so far, this appears to be somewhat common.
I have the thought to check the transmission fluid, as well as the fluid in the differential and transfer case-- But how? And what is the location? I don't notice that any other gears are having an issue. I opened the hood, and do not notice any fluid pooling up however with the airbox and everything in place, it is all pretty close together-- Making it difficult to notice if anything has pooled.
Also, hasn't been into limp mode. I am confused and worried. Any assistance will be of great appreciation.
#2
08-16-2021, 03:55 PM
Veteran Member
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...w-pics-183620/
Pay particular heed to the correct and wrong level fluid check plug if you do it the "approved Jaguar way", failure to do so will release the reverse band bolt on your transmission necessitating transmission removal to repair it. You'll notice I chose an alternate method.
Pay particular heed to the correct and wrong level fluid check plug if you do it the "approved Jaguar way", failure to do so will release the reverse band bolt on your transmission necessitating transmission removal to repair it. You'll notice I chose an alternate method.
#3
08-16-2021, 04:06 PM
Senior Member
The transmission on the X-Type is theoretically "filled for life" and doesn't have a regular dipstick to check levels. Same with the differential and transfer case. All of these pieces are accessed from below the car, less the trans fill port which is barely accessible from the top with the battery in the car.
The trans has a drain plug and level port that unscrew from the case. Be aware that the trans fill plug is only about 3/4 of inch above the drain plug and not higher up on the trans (the much higher plug is the adjustment for the reverse gear bands and should not be touched, bad things will happen). Dell Galley has a couple of great threads on the locations. The diff has a fill port that are fairly easy to access with the car in the air and is pretty obvious. As you may have seen in your reading the transfer case is a right pain to fill. It only has one readily accessible plug and you either need to transfer pump the fluid in or out or literally tip the car from side to side to replace it.
For what it's worth, swapping (not power flushing) all these fluids is a solid first step in determining what's going on as well as preventing wear. The transfer case only has about 650ml of fluid in it and has been known to boil away or leak over time. The trans fluid and diff are probably original fluid as well. For a few dollars why not try it before committing to a trans rebuild or big repair.
The transmission, T-case and diff use fairly common fluids that can be purchased off the shelf. Castrol Import multi-vehicle ATF that matches the IDEMITSU K17 spec for the trans and 75w140 synthetic gear oil for the t-case and diff. There are no filters to replace as they are built into the trans case.
Hope this is helpful.
The trans has a drain plug and level port that unscrew from the case. Be aware that the trans fill plug is only about 3/4 of inch above the drain plug and not higher up on the trans (the much higher plug is the adjustment for the reverse gear bands and should not be touched, bad things will happen). Dell Galley has a couple of great threads on the locations. The diff has a fill port that are fairly easy to access with the car in the air and is pretty obvious. As you may have seen in your reading the transfer case is a right pain to fill. It only has one readily accessible plug and you either need to transfer pump the fluid in or out or literally tip the car from side to side to replace it.
For what it's worth, swapping (not power flushing) all these fluids is a solid first step in determining what's going on as well as preventing wear. The transfer case only has about 650ml of fluid in it and has been known to boil away or leak over time. The trans fluid and diff are probably original fluid as well. For a few dollars why not try it before committing to a trans rebuild or big repair.
The transmission, T-case and diff use fairly common fluids that can be purchased off the shelf. Castrol Import multi-vehicle ATF that matches the IDEMITSU K17 spec for the trans and 75w140 synthetic gear oil for the t-case and diff. There are no filters to replace as they are built into the trans case.
Hope this is helpful.
#4
08-16-2021, 04:19 PM
Veteran Member
Hi TBanks,
Firstly, welcome to the forum.
You will get a lot of help from some 'old heads' that reside here......who will do their darnedest to give you guidance.
What will be of great help is to see if you can read the fault codes using an OBD11 scanner, as that will help others zero in on your issue.
The common suggestion is to get an ELM327 OBD11 reader and the Torque App on your smartphone.
The symptoms you have explained sound like the ECM (Engine computer) and TCM (Transmission control module) are getting out of sync with each other for some reason.
There can be several reasons from mechanical to electronic and that is where the fault codes may help.
You could be having a solenoid issue in the transmission that is not allowing a shift to occur smoothly, then the TCM dumps the gear and the ECM detects an out of parameters situation.
Trans fluid in these cars was stated as "life of car" but asking anyone in this forum that owns one, they all would recommend regular trans fluid changes. (don't waste your time looking for a trans dipstick.....they don't have one). If you are going to start with a trans fluid change then do some searches on this forum as there are plenty of threads about home garage procedures to doing that fluid change.
I had a similar gearbox issue on my car that turned out to be a TPS (throttle position sensor), but I am not suggesting you have the same issue. But for the purposes of understanding the logic of my fault; the TPS was not mechanically returning properly (faulty new part) and telling the ECM the throttle was open when in fact the butterfly was mechanically closed. The ECM was interpreting engine state via revs and MAF sensor vacuum which didn't equate to TPS value, hence the ECM did not know how to command the gearbox. The Gearbox is a pretty dumb device and does what it is told, when the commands are incorrect or missing the gearbox seems to hard shift belatedly at high RPM as all the normal shift points are out of whack. Then you get the gearbox dash error and possible limp home mode. That might be followed by 'no start' after you have switched of the car. If you get no start you can sometimes unlock the issue by disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes, but the underlying cause will still surface.
The TCMs can be an issue failing in these cards, sometimes due to a bit of water coming down through the heater assembly and landing on the TCM or loom which is located underneath the centre console forward and to the right of the gear shifter.
The TCM can be removed and opened to see if you have any signs of corrosion on the connector outside or inside the TCM assembly. This corrosion sometimes causes comms errors between the TCM and ECM.
Anyhow, I would start with seeing if you can read the fault codes and post a list of them to this thread so the community can get to work on helping you isolate the issue.
That hopefully will save you a lot of unnecessary and expensive hunting and parts replacing. Far better to use a scalpel than a machette!
You will no doubt get some additional feedback/support from others here who will be a wealth of knowledge and support, I just happen to be the one of the first responses for you.
Good luck and hope you can dig up some codes.
Firstly, welcome to the forum.
You will get a lot of help from some 'old heads' that reside here......who will do their darnedest to give you guidance.
What will be of great help is to see if you can read the fault codes using an OBD11 scanner, as that will help others zero in on your issue.
The common suggestion is to get an ELM327 OBD11 reader and the Torque App on your smartphone.
The symptoms you have explained sound like the ECM (Engine computer) and TCM (Transmission control module) are getting out of sync with each other for some reason.
There can be several reasons from mechanical to electronic and that is where the fault codes may help.
You could be having a solenoid issue in the transmission that is not allowing a shift to occur smoothly, then the TCM dumps the gear and the ECM detects an out of parameters situation.
Trans fluid in these cars was stated as "life of car" but asking anyone in this forum that owns one, they all would recommend regular trans fluid changes. (don't waste your time looking for a trans dipstick.....they don't have one). If you are going to start with a trans fluid change then do some searches on this forum as there are plenty of threads about home garage procedures to doing that fluid change.
I had a similar gearbox issue on my car that turned out to be a TPS (throttle position sensor), but I am not suggesting you have the same issue. But for the purposes of understanding the logic of my fault; the TPS was not mechanically returning properly (faulty new part) and telling the ECM the throttle was open when in fact the butterfly was mechanically closed. The ECM was interpreting engine state via revs and MAF sensor vacuum which didn't equate to TPS value, hence the ECM did not know how to command the gearbox. The Gearbox is a pretty dumb device and does what it is told, when the commands are incorrect or missing the gearbox seems to hard shift belatedly at high RPM as all the normal shift points are out of whack. Then you get the gearbox dash error and possible limp home mode. That might be followed by 'no start' after you have switched of the car. If you get no start you can sometimes unlock the issue by disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes, but the underlying cause will still surface.
The TCMs can be an issue failing in these cards, sometimes due to a bit of water coming down through the heater assembly and landing on the TCM or loom which is located underneath the centre console forward and to the right of the gear shifter.
The TCM can be removed and opened to see if you have any signs of corrosion on the connector outside or inside the TCM assembly. This corrosion sometimes causes comms errors between the TCM and ECM.
Anyhow, I would start with seeing if you can read the fault codes and post a list of them to this thread so the community can get to work on helping you isolate the issue.
That hopefully will save you a lot of unnecessary and expensive hunting and parts replacing. Far better to use a scalpel than a machette!
You will no doubt get some additional feedback/support from others here who will be a wealth of knowledge and support, I just happen to be the one of the first responses for you.
Good luck and hope you can dig up some codes.
#5
08-16-2021, 09:07 PM
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Thank you all very much for your words and welcoming-- I am especially thankful that this forum exists, as I fell in love with the X-Type years ago, and evidently so have many others who have chosen to embark on repairing the vehicle themselves instead of being bled to death by mechanics and the dealer alike. Some updates on the situation
- I returned the car back home, and shut the car off. Turning it back on less than 3 minutes later to see if anything had reset in that short amount of time. The car still showed that the issue active (meaning the orange light and check engine light were both illuminated, followed by "gearbox fault"
-I did my home errands, and slept before I headed out to work. I got into the car after it had been sitting for around 4 hours, and took a short drive around the suburban area I live, and while the check engine light was still on, the "gearbox fault" warning and orange light had turned off.
-My Father (the man with all the tools-- Bless him) who also thinks the car is one of the most handsome available, let me know that he had read if you change the gears rapidly, sometimes the vehicle doesn't fully register that it is in that gear (Could this be true?) He also let me know that the water pump which is leaking through its "drain hole", is leaking out directly onto the transmission casing because of the location of the pump itself. (Could this have caused the slipping and trans clown act?)
-I drove the vehicle to work, all highway, not needing to hard merge as it is late evening, and the check engine light has stayed illuminated. But again, no gearbox fault. Not even a slip, no hard shifts.. Strange! I do indeed have an OBDII scan tool, and the codes were actually P1646 (2 times) and P1000. 1646 is for an upstream o2 sensor, but-- could that have really caused that much of an issue?
- The car had been sitting a little while before I had taken it out today. It had been sitting a while while on sale, and then because of the work it needed, it sat for a little bit longer until the work was completed. I can't help but to think that the transmission isn't bad, because if it was, would it no doubt continue the same issue again and again? This is my first Jag, and I typically baby all my vehicles-- today's "maiden voyage" required me to hard accelerate merging onto the highway because of a jerk in an Altima not understanding the procedure for "merging".. Could this too have resulted in today's experience?
I know this reply is lengthy.. But I try my best to make sure it is all there. Again, I look forward to any and all responses and help. My Father and I do not have a garage of our own, all of the work that is done to our vehicles is right in our driveway-- We have no lift, so it will have to be the "old american" way.
Cheers-- and regards!
T
- I returned the car back home, and shut the car off. Turning it back on less than 3 minutes later to see if anything had reset in that short amount of time. The car still showed that the issue active (meaning the orange light and check engine light were both illuminated, followed by "gearbox fault"
-I did my home errands, and slept before I headed out to work. I got into the car after it had been sitting for around 4 hours, and took a short drive around the suburban area I live, and while the check engine light was still on, the "gearbox fault" warning and orange light had turned off.
-My Father (the man with all the tools-- Bless him) who also thinks the car is one of the most handsome available, let me know that he had read if you change the gears rapidly, sometimes the vehicle doesn't fully register that it is in that gear (Could this be true?) He also let me know that the water pump which is leaking through its "drain hole", is leaking out directly onto the transmission casing because of the location of the pump itself. (Could this have caused the slipping and trans clown act?)
-I drove the vehicle to work, all highway, not needing to hard merge as it is late evening, and the check engine light has stayed illuminated. But again, no gearbox fault. Not even a slip, no hard shifts.. Strange! I do indeed have an OBDII scan tool, and the codes were actually P1646 (2 times) and P1000. 1646 is for an upstream o2 sensor, but-- could that have really caused that much of an issue?
- The car had been sitting a little while before I had taken it out today. It had been sitting a while while on sale, and then because of the work it needed, it sat for a little bit longer until the work was completed. I can't help but to think that the transmission isn't bad, because if it was, would it no doubt continue the same issue again and again? This is my first Jag, and I typically baby all my vehicles-- today's "maiden voyage" required me to hard accelerate merging onto the highway because of a jerk in an Altima not understanding the procedure for "merging".. Could this too have resulted in today's experience?
I know this reply is lengthy.. But I try my best to make sure it is all there. Again, I look forward to any and all responses and help. My Father and I do not have a garage of our own, all of the work that is done to our vehicles is right in our driveway-- We have no lift, so it will have to be the "old american" way.
Cheers-- and regards!
T
#6
08-16-2021, 09:57 PM
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ALSO, I wanted to include that it has rained here in the cape for a few days, but has been dry for about 2 days now. I noticed there is a missing trim/seal piece on the drivers side of the windshield that would run on the A-Pillar-- It is just gone. I notice that there are a lot of comments regarding the X-Type's transmission being extremely sensitive to moisture/liquids.. Could this also have something to do with it?
#7
08-16-2021, 10:53 PM
Veteran Member
Hi T,
Trans fluid gets pretty darn contaminated over time (with use not water ingress), and that does create some interesting trans behaviors, hence everyone suggesting a trans fluid change, fluid swap - don't power flush as you can send crud up into the internal mesh filter which you can't access or clean without trans removal and strip down.
I see Dell has already given you a link to a very practical fluid change process.
I followed that myself 3 months ago, and my trans is infinitely smoother....thanks Dell!
Water into trans comment:
Not as far as I know. The only water issues I am aware of is what I mentioned earlier about water getting into heater assembly and finding its way to the Transmission control module.
That is often caused by an overflow of the heater air intake area under the plastic scuttle due to blocked drains (leaf debris) allowing water to get into the long skinny air intake filter for heater system.
Your missing weather seal on A pillar might be letting a bit more water in than normal into that air cavity and if the drainage is a bit compromised........
Your O2 sensor is the upstream sensor on the firewall side of engine. Relatively easy one to get to.
Possible bad sensor or cable. Not likely a cause of trans error..........jump in anyone else that has additional thoughts on this......
You also don't know when the car threw the error, it could be an older code that you have inherited with the car.
Note your codes and see if any additional incidents or new ones appear over the coming days and weeks.
If you have fixed the underlying problem the check engine light may self extinguish after 5 trouble free drive cycles.
Trans fluid gets pretty darn contaminated over time (with use not water ingress), and that does create some interesting trans behaviors, hence everyone suggesting a trans fluid change, fluid swap - don't power flush as you can send crud up into the internal mesh filter which you can't access or clean without trans removal and strip down.
I see Dell has already given you a link to a very practical fluid change process.
I followed that myself 3 months ago, and my trans is infinitely smoother....thanks Dell!
Water into trans comment:
Not as far as I know. The only water issues I am aware of is what I mentioned earlier about water getting into heater assembly and finding its way to the Transmission control module.
That is often caused by an overflow of the heater air intake area under the plastic scuttle due to blocked drains (leaf debris) allowing water to get into the long skinny air intake filter for heater system.
Your missing weather seal on A pillar might be letting a bit more water in than normal into that air cavity and if the drainage is a bit compromised........
Your O2 sensor is the upstream sensor on the firewall side of engine. Relatively easy one to get to.
Possible bad sensor or cable. Not likely a cause of trans error..........jump in anyone else that has additional thoughts on this......
You also don't know when the car threw the error, it could be an older code that you have inherited with the car.
Note your codes and see if any additional incidents or new ones appear over the coming days and weeks.
If you have fixed the underlying problem the check engine light may self extinguish after 5 trouble free drive cycles.
Trending Topics
#8
08-16-2021, 11:57 PM
Veteran Member
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...6-code-149457/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ii-eml-215783/
P1000 is irrelevant, it will change to p1111 once underlying issues are fixed/resolved.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ii-eml-215783/
P1000 is irrelevant, it will change to p1111 once underlying issues are fixed/resolved.
#10
08-17-2021, 11:21 AM
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Hello everybody--
24 hour update, and the gearbox fault message has not returned, however along with the water pump, I believe it also needs an alternator as well, as I went to start it this morning and it cranked very low, and upon starting, the battery light illuminated, until I chucked a few revs and it turned off. There is a brand new battery in the vehicle-- so could the alternator being bad, paired with a new battery that is quickly draining and not being recharged from the voltage used on the car, have caused the quirks? I have receipts and receipts of oil changes, replacement parts, ignition coils, gaskets, resevoirs, the list goes on and on. It's unfortunately looking like the Jag is going to have to go to the workbench.
24 hour update, and the gearbox fault message has not returned, however along with the water pump, I believe it also needs an alternator as well, as I went to start it this morning and it cranked very low, and upon starting, the battery light illuminated, until I chucked a few revs and it turned off. There is a brand new battery in the vehicle-- so could the alternator being bad, paired with a new battery that is quickly draining and not being recharged from the voltage used on the car, have caused the quirks? I have receipts and receipts of oil changes, replacement parts, ignition coils, gaskets, resevoirs, the list goes on and on. It's unfortunately looking like the Jag is going to have to go to the workbench.
#11
08-17-2021, 02:09 PM
Veteran Member
Your battery light is most probably a failing battery cable which is a known and common problem on our X's. Here's a link to a thread from our forum guru (Thermo) on checking it. Alternators rarely go bad on these cars and have a "unique" 3 step charging action, also included in this thread.
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...oblems-206137/
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...oblems-206137/
#12
08-17-2021, 11:46 PM
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It sounds like there is an actuator or some kind of electric motor staying on 24/7, sounding like it's coming from behind the gauge cluster, or somewhere behind the steering wheel. I noticed a cable coming off an 02 sensor that actually got whacked by the driver side cooling fan. Also, found that the alternator is indeed fine. Any input on this?
#14
08-18-2021, 03:26 PM
Veteran Member
The sound you hear may well be the small air cabin fan that gets dirty and louder noise when it does. It comes on as soon as you open your door and automatically shuts off 10-20 minutes after you shut the door. On a LHD car there is a little grill just right of the steering wheel. Carefully pop it out and blow some compressed air in there. Mine had a ball of fuzz that looked like a cat fur ball in there.
Last edited by Dell Gailey; 08-18-2021 at 03:28 PM.
#15
08-21-2021, 10:37 PM
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Anyone experienced an issue with the shift lever linkage or cable becoming stretched or loose, causing issues with shifting? Car doesn't want to shift out of Reverse into park, or from reverse to drive.. the lever itself feels as if there is some kind of pressure on it, and then at some points it feels lose. Between R and N it doesn't quite go into gear comfortably, and it is falling out of gear, slipping, it just took me 15 minutes with my car literally horizontal blocking a busy intersection to get it to go into D, and then it would go for 2 seconds, fall out of gear, and slam back in randomly. Reverses fine. I finally got back to the house, and it wouldn't go into park, just stayed in reverse until I played with the lever, up down, all around, and finally went into park, but still wont light up the P. Extremely frustrated. Just replaced the water pump-- that little buzzing isnt the fan. Battery is draining constantly. I am about to pull my hair out. Is it time to trade the old Jag in and go Toyota?
#16
08-22-2021, 03:06 AM
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#17
08-22-2021, 11:44 AM
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