Greetings all. I recently (April 3) had the transmission fluid changed in my 2003 X-Type with 155,000 miles on it. I had specified the Castrol import fluid but discovered that the mechanic had used Castrol Transmax Merc/Dex instead. I contacted Castrol and they told me that was not a suitable transmission fluid in the X-type. My question is has any damage been done to the transmission in the short amount of time. The car gets driven about 10 to 20 miles a week so it doesn't even have a hundred miles on the transmission since the fluid change. The fluid is going to be replaced this weekend with the correct Castrol import fluid. The transmission has felt fine, with no problems, but are there any thoughts on damage?

 

The JATCO JF506E fluid is the same for VW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda that uses this gearbox
Pick one.
I have used G 052 990 A2 VW fluid and Jaguar C2S 12120.

 

Type into goggle MSDS followed by the name of the ATF you want to get infos about.
While viscosity is definitely not the only important characteristic, it is what I look for.
Try to find the MSDS for the OE fluids
I had done heaps of research on the correct fluid, as the OE fluids are not available in Australia, and I came to the conclusion that Fuchs Titan 4400 will do for the Jatco JF506e.
The ATF in your X-type now and Titan 4400 have similar viscosities, but check out the other parameters given on the MSDSs (Material Safety Data Sheet.

I wrote this about a full ATF change on the X-Type:
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...change-266693/

This would be the way to go, if you want to flush out the current ATF and get new ATF.
However, even my method can not empty the torque converter, where I guess about 1L may remain.
I just had the torque converter in my hands and emptied it out (yes, I removed my transmission and transfer case and subframe, and propeller shaft, both half-axles, etc.), and put it back on and today I filled it with ATF again.
Reason for doing so: changing the rear crank-shaft seal.

If I wrote something about the check plug to determine the correct ATF level: Forget that.
I will soon post something about that: That's crap! The "straw" above the filler plug is just 5cm long and starts 5mm after the plug enters the tranny.
Trusting the check plug, you will drive imho with insufficient ATF.

 

Some years ago, a Ford tech wrote in this forum about replacing a transmission on a X Type. Service manager shopped OEM Jaguar Dealer fluid and even with their discount refused to pay the pretty high price. Told the mechanic to use Dextron, fill it and take it for a test drive.
The mechanic poster said the Jag didn't even make it off their property, blew the brand new transmission.
So....
Jaguar requirement of using ANY fluid meeting IDEMITSU K17 is what should be used.

 

If I understand the drain fill procedure correctly, you're not able to completely drain the fluid out of the torque converter. So regardless you're going to be mixing fluid am I correct? If that's the case then some of the incorrect decks Merck fluid is now mixing with the old original transmission fluid. So if I now attempt to replace that fluid with the Castrol multi vehicle import fluid, that will mix with the current mixed fluid that's in there now, correct? Is the solution then to drain fill Drive three times, and then do it again in about a week?

 

> If I understand the drain fill procedure correctly, you're not able to completely drain the fluid out of the torque converter. So regardless you're going to be mixing fluid am I correct?

Yes. And as I wrote in my post link above regarding changing ATF: This drain 3 times is a joke, as each time you get only about half the ATF out there, which means, the result after this extremely wasteful 3x drain is that you still have a very high concentration of the previous ATF in there, which means that my method is better - you just can't do much about the ATF stuck in the torque converter - other than working full time on the Jag for 1 to 2 weeks at least to actually take the converter out and empty it.

PS: Just had an idea: It may come as a shock to many, but I like my beer mixed half/half with Coca Cola: While I have not tried the following myself, I think it may give you an idea what the result of 3x draining the half is: Fill a glass with Coke, drink half, fill it up with beer, drink half again, fill with beer again, drink half again, fill it up with beer again. I am fairly sure that you will still notice the Coke now in what you have in the glass now - and the Coke would be equivalent to the old ATF regarding concentration...

 

Good idea, but I simplified a bit. I poured the coke into a beaker, poured out a third, replaced that with water, stirred and did the same two more times. It actually took 7 times to get a liquid the color of weak tea.
another 4 would have almost been clear. That extrapolates to a lot of wasted tranny fluid.

 

Also, what's going on with the fluid in the TC? Isn't it mixing as well?

 

About your coke/water experiment: Good, too, but do it again with not just removing 1/3, but 1/2 each time - that's more like it.

TC: Transfer Case: I will also do a write-up about that one, soon, too. I am a bit time-pressed a.t.m.: I am away for the weeks with my van, and at this moment there is none of the registered 3 Jags drivable for my wife, while I am away: One of them was drivable until Thursday, then it ran out of rego, and I have to fix the X308's lower rear shock absorber bushes, before I can get rego again. So I hope I can finish the X-Type today, on which I started working over 3 month ago, being interrupted by a job.

About the TC in a nutshell: It contains 0.6L of full synthetic 80W-140 gear oil (in Australia, where it is warm all the time, otherwise full synth. 75W-140. If you drain the TC with the Jag level, 350ml will remain in there, if you tilt the Jag, you probably get another 100ml out. There is a fill plug on top, that hardly anybody knows about (not sure yet, if it can be reached with the TC installed), and other than that , if you seriously want to do a full oil change on the TC, you will have to remove it, which is a bummer. The shaft that goes thru the TC is being lubricated via the transmission's ATF.

 

Hi Gdt928,

You don't mention where you are located, which may have an impact on which fluids are available to you.

Personally, I would not recommend the use of any Castrol transmission fluid in your Jatco gearbox because, like many other third-party fluidmakers, Castrol is guilty of claiming its fluids are "suitable" or "recommended" for a wide variety of dissimilar transmissions for which the design engineers specified very different fluids. If you review the transmissions Castrol claims its Import or Multi-Vehicle fluid is suitable for, you will find that the fluids the manufacturers of those transmissions recommend have very different chemical properties from one another. The only way Castrol can make a fluid "suitable" for so many different transmissions is to compromise so that the fluid is not optimal in any of them.

Jatco is a spin-off of Nissan, and the last time I researched fluids known to be correct, I came up with these:

Idemitsu ATF Type J (which supersedes their previous K17, Matic K, Matic D and Matic J fluids)
Nissan Matic J / D / K
Kia ATF Red-1
Hyundai ATF Red-1
Jaguar Idemitsu K17
and the fluids Bob already mentioned:
VW G 052 990 A2
Jaguar C2S 12120

Many Japanese transmissions use Dexron III- or Dexron VI-type fluids, but the chemical properties of the Jatco fluids are different from either Dex III or VI. Note that according to Fuchs, their Titan 4400 is a Dexron III equivalent, so do your own research before considering it.

The Jatco transmission was also used in the VW Golf, Land Rover Freelander, Audi A3, Mazda MPV, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution and other vehicles around the world, so those respective dealerships may be able to supply the correct fluid.

Regarding the practice of draining and filling the transmission three times, Peter's cooler-line method is probably the best way to change all or nearly all of the fluid in your transmission. But don't write off the three drain and fill method too quickly. Your coke/water experiment may or may not represent the constant agitation and circulation that transmission fluid is subjected to due to the action of the pump and torque converter impeller and turbine fins. The old and new fluids are very quickly intermixed, so the fluid left in the torque converter the first time you drain is completely replaced by a new mixture the next time you drain, as long as you allow the engine to run long enough for the new and old fluid to thoroughly mix (ten minutes is often considered the minimum).

Folks with better math skills than mine have done the calculations, but a version simple enough for me to understand is that the first time you drain and refill, your fluid will be approximately 50% new fluid and 50% old fluid. When you do the second drain, about half the fluid remains in the torque converter, and half of that fluid is old. So 25% of the fluid capacity is old fluid. When you refill with new fluid, about 75% of the fluid will be new and 25% old. Drain again and the old fluid remaining in the torque converter represents just 12.5% of the transmission fluid capacity, so when you refill again, about 87.5% of the fluid is new. That may sound like a lot of old fluid remaining, but this ratio is not much different from the mixture achieved when we change engine oil. Just compare an engine's "initial fill" oil capacity with its "oil change with filter" capacity. Typically, 0.5 to 1.0 quart/liter of oil remains in an engine at each oil change. Sure, engine oil is changed more frequently than transmission fluid, but the concept of mixing mostly-new lubricant with some old lubricant is not anathema. And since many "Sealed for Life" transmissions go their entire lives without ever having the fluid changed, you'll be way ahead by replacing 87.5% of the fluid. Three drains and fills is a widely accepted DIY method of servicing an automatic transmission if you don't want to go to the extra trouble of a cooler-line flush (or don't want to risk creating a new leak by disturbing the cooler lines).

Cheers,

Don

 

Just a brief addition to Don's words:

>>>>
Castrol is guilty of claiming its fluids are "suitable" or "recommended" for a wide variety of dissimilar transmissions for which the design engineers specified very different fluids. If you review the transmissions Castrol claims its Import or Multi-Vehicle fluid is suitable for, you will find that the fluids the manufacturers of those transmissions recommend have very different chemical properties from one another. The only way Castrol can make a fluid "suitable" for so many different transmissions is to compromise so that the fluid is not optimal in any of them.
>>>>

The same is true for Nulon "Multi Vehicle ATF". This is in regards of S-Type ATF: Nulon claims that their ATF is suitable to replace a very long list of other ATF's and this list includes Lifeguard 5 and Lifeguard 6. That statement alone proves that these claims cannot be trusted, as Lifeguard 5 and 6 are different. Plus, the viscosity of Lifeguard 6 and this Nulon ATF differs a lot.

 

Peter and Don, thank you so much for the time you've put into addressing my issue and for the impressive amount of information you provided. I am completely rethinking the transmission fluid I'm going to be using and have learned so much from both of you about the seemingly seemingly spurious claims made by some fluid manufacturers. Thanks to you (and other members of this forum), I hope to ensure my x-type has a long life ahead. Thanks again.
BTW Don, I'm in Ogden, Utah.