Oooooh, you naughty man ... you could start an argument with a question like that ... then again, at least it would make for a refreshing change.

Edit: Good grief ... I have just realized how really OLD this thread is. What is it about oils, add-on ground wires, extra voltage stabilizers, oxy-acetylene in your tyres; and contests to see how many years a battery can last followed by complaints when the car starts throwing electrical and electronic tantrums ... that all these issues tend to be like religious or political rallies with zealous, well intentioned people shouting at each other but listening to no-one.

End of sermon ... Here's a lightbulb prediction for you ... I bet that, within a month, someone will raise more new threads on exactly the same set of topics ...

Hey, Norri, I know yer here somewhere ... Where's that beer ... no, not that rubbish ... the good stuff!

In my son's words,
"Cheers, big ears"
Ken

 

my opinion why Syn is superior to Dino.

Question for previous poster

Why does Jaguar now specify Syn from 2010 and on ? Obviously they think Syn is a better oil.

As to the VW ( Passat 1.8 Turbo) the owners manual states that use of non Syn oil VOIDS the warranty.

Lastly the words from a 20+ year Jaguar mechanic recommending Syn in my 2003 XJR is all I needed to hear..

Hey, run whatever you want

 

I think the newest engines are actually built for synthetic oil. I read somewhere when I was researching this that the x-type engine is right in the between phase of the new and old style engines. I see no harm in synthetic oil, it's better stuff if you car about your car that much. I wouldn't think twice about it except my car has 80,000 miles which is officially a high mileage car. I noticed quite a few drips of oil under my pan, which I know English cars have a habit of. I bought the castrol synthetic edge oil, but read before I changed it that putting synthetic in an older car that has been running regular oil is likely to create more leaks. That's basically the opposite of what I wanted to do, since I was already trying to figure out an additive to use to seal the leaks. Anyways, I found the Castrol High Mileage part synth. the perfect option. A.) It's part synth which is what the owners manual calls for, and B.) It's formulated for higher mileage cars, so it has additives that help seal the leaks and clean out deposits. If you want to use full synth go ahead but for the price and the advantages of a high mileage oil, I think Castrol GTX High Mileage is just right for my needs. Car is running like new again.

 

I do the same on my X, Mobile1 every 3-5K miles and a Mobile1 filter. If you read up on synth oil, the chemistry has none of the compounds in dino oil that oxidize into sludge. My car zips up thru high rmps and sounds good. Synth oil costs more, but it also last longer. Some keep it in 7K miles plus btwn oil changes. I don't, I keep it under about 4K miles. My car has 120K miles and I now (for the last 10 months) find myself living 4 miles from work, so the miles are racking up slower these days, but I'd still take a road trip to just about anywhere in this car.

Here is an excerpt from a JD Power article on the subject.

"Synthetic oil was developed for high-temperature use in jet aircraft engines decades ago when engineers realized that petroleum-based oils break down and lose their lubricating capabilities when exposed to high heat. Over time, petroleum-based oils began to oxidize and create sludge, leaving damaging residue inside the engine.

Formulated in a laboratory, man-made synthetic oil doesn't contain the naturally occurring chemicals that break down at high temperatures. It is also manufactured without many of the chemical compositions that contribute to oil oxidation and sludge buildup. Synthetic oil can tolerate temperatures that would burn up petroleum-based oils."

Synthetic Motor Oils | J.D. Power

 

Except that the engines in an X-type never approach the temperature levels that would cause regular dino oil to break down, never mind synthetics. There's very, very few car engines that actually make use of the synthetic's capabilities, meaning that it's a waste on 'regular' cars.

But the myths will go on.............

 

Mikey, I thought about how cars don't have jet engines, but I also recall pulling spent, black, dino oil from all my cars over the years. The synth oil I use in the Jag comes out much cleaner, altho used for similar miles. I'd say the black oil indicates sludge.

Dino oil may absorb more of the combustibles and so is actually a little heavier when it comes out. Just guessin here, since synth oil was actually designed by chemist for better properties.

 

that "Mickey" might be a dino oil salesman

 

its a submarine..... USS Cobbler SS 344 which I served aboard for two years and seven months in total luxury ( ya right )

 

What about in summer? The temps here get well over 100(f). I could only imagine how hot the inside of an engine must get in that kind of heat.

 

What turns an oil black is not the break down of the oil, but the exhaust gases/carbon getting past the rings and into the oil. Newer motors are made with much tighter tolerances. So, the gaps that allow stuff through are much smaller and therefore you don't see as much of the non-oil stuff getting into the oil. Then you also have the fact that the oil filters are getting better about filtering stuff out (ie, filtering to a smaller particle size). So, you are catching more stuff in your filter that you don't see in the engine.

As for sludge, well, modern day oils have a much higher detergent content. So, again, anything like sludge is getting scrubbed out of the engine and sent to the filter.

 

If you meant me (Mikey) I spent more than 30 years in the engineering, design and support areas of world's largest gas turbine engine manufacturer. This gave me first hand experience to learn why synthetic oils are of no real benefit to 99% of the cars on the road today.

Carry on........

 

Engines run at the same operating temps always, regardless of the outside temps, unless something is wrong, that's the whole point of the cooling system...

anyway, I use synthetic because it doesn't really cost much more than conventional oil and it works just as well, if not better in some cases. The biggest reason I like the idea of using synthetic oil because there is no reason to still use up conventional oil reserves for things like lubricants. I hardly think I gain any power simply by changing oil. You might get another half hp or maybe even a whole hp or so but you'd never be able to feel that. Besides, changing the oil on time is a lot more important then synthetic vs conventional.

 

Please share some of your first hand experience as to why synth oil in motors offers nothing over dino oil. If so, millions of users and a billion dollar industry must all be based on pure hype.

A quick internet search brings up the following facts from JD Power and other pundits on the subject.

Synthetic oil reduces heat from friction due to uniform particle size, esp. with tighter internal engine tolerances as mentioned above.

In addition, the X engine is known to produce more heat than similar 6 cyl engines, that's why our engines have an oil cooler and so many heat shields. Dino oil breaks down chemically under heat when a synthetic oil would not.

Synth oil flows much better in cold weather, and, they are also slicker than dino oil, simply better lubricators for moving parts.

Now I sound like a synthetic oil salesman, but only to answer your dismissive tone Sir.

 

Yes you do. I've answered your very questions several times here if you'd care to do a search. The qualities you've mentioned regarding synthetic oil are somewhat true but don't translate into any tangible, real world benefit. The cars live long happy lives on dino oil. Most go to the graveyard with original, untouched engines

If the fact that millions of people use them is of any relevance, compare it to the soap powder industry where something new and improved is always being introduced. If the existing product gets the clothes clean- how will a new product get them 'cleaner'? You're not far off with using the word 'hype', many many have bought into it.

 

But why keep using something outdated that aids in draining a world wide resource when you can use something synthetic that works just as well? the argument over which works better in a normal car is simple, neither. They both to the same thing at about the same level because they have to meet certain standards. Which is better overall? For my money I go with synthetic not because I think my engine will run any better, but just because its not motor oil made from...oil. One day all oil lubricants will be synthetic....they will have no choice.

 

I think you'll find that synthetic oils consume precious natural resources also. It's no more 'earth friendly' or 'green' than dino oil.

 

Here's an interesting Vid about bearings in a turbo charger on the Mobil 1 site

Synthetic Oil | Heat Protection

In the "Turbochargers Withstand High Heat " section click on the "watch what happens vid

This comparison of bearings out of a turbo using Dino and one using syn made a believer out of me especially since my 2003 XJR is supercharged.


Take a look and see what you think

 

That's nothing new. The video demonstrates why synthetics are required on some turbochargers operated under some conditions.

There's little in common between a turbocharger and a supercharger- no 200,000 RPM and no exposure to exhaust gas on the latter being the two most important factors. Conventional oil never sees temperatures anywhere near it's limit in our engines, so again the high temp capability of synthetics is wasted.

The same argument could be made with Dot 4 vs. Dot 5 brake fluid. One has a much higher temp. rating than the other, but in practice the fluid ever comes close to the limit of the lower rated fuel-so why bother.

You're free to used whatever oil makes you happy but be aware that your car couldn't care less.

 

That's pretty much the real reason I get synthetic, like I said before, I don't really put a lot of thought into it, I either buy Castrol synthetic of some kind or royal purple and a k&n filter and be done with it.