Mysterious After Gas UP fill issue
#1
07-01-2021, 08:43 PM
Mysterious After Gas UP fill issue
Hello all, When I fill up my 2002 Jaguar X Type with lets say I fill up a fresh half tank of gas.
Put the new gas cap back on then start the car and drive away. What will happen is the car suddenly stutters to move forward.
I have to wait 5 - 10 minutes while car is off. Then I start up drive away no problem.
My X type has a brand evaporative tank, 2 new new catalytic convertors , a new fuel pump, and fuel filter installed two weeks ago.
I stumbled across a vapor canister issue or purge valve online with x type but I'm not sure ?
Any reply's would be great thanks!
Put the new gas cap back on then start the car and drive away. What will happen is the car suddenly stutters to move forward.
I have to wait 5 - 10 minutes while car is off. Then I start up drive away no problem.
My X type has a brand evaporative tank, 2 new new catalytic convertors , a new fuel pump, and fuel filter installed two weeks ago.
I stumbled across a vapor canister issue or purge valve online with x type but I'm not sure ?
Any reply's would be great thanks!
#2
07-01-2021, 11:53 PM
Veteran Member
Hi rm1111,
Some questions for you as this is very odd.
This problem only occurs after a fill, never when the car has just been sitting parked up for any period of time?
What engine type and size do you have (not in your message or profile), I am assuming either 2.5 or 3.0 V6 Petrol engine?
There are differences with 2.0/2.2 Diesel and 2.1 V6 petrol variants
When you say you are filling up a fresh half tank....... is that a half tank from empty, or do you refill your tank to the top when it gets half empty?
I know it sounds pedantic, but it might help me or others understand how full the tank is once you have done your 'half fill'.
Overfilling might saturate your evap system giving you some issues.
With the Evap management on these vehicles, when you start the car the Evap solenoids will briefly connect manifold vacuum to the canister to 'extract' any surplus fumes that are collected in that system. But I believe that happens at each start up if the vehicle has sat for any period.
Effectively the fuel tank operates with some degree of negative pressure.
A fault in the Evap solenoids or lines may effectively allow atmosphere to enter the system for the duration of the Evap purge process and give you the symptoms of a manifold vacuum leak that stops once the Evap cycle has completed, but that would be the case regardless of you filling or not.
Perhaps a good first test would be to just emulate your drive to the service station, release the fuel filler cap without adding any additional fuel, with the same duration of open tank and engine off (to emulate the filling procedure duration), refit the filler cap to then see if you have the same effect occur.
That will at least define if it is a consequence of tank pressure change and circumstances that is creating the initial hesitancy you are observing.
If it doesn't create the same issue, then do your actual normal fill sequence to confirm that you then get the issue.
Some questions for you as this is very odd.
This problem only occurs after a fill, never when the car has just been sitting parked up for any period of time?
What engine type and size do you have (not in your message or profile), I am assuming either 2.5 or 3.0 V6 Petrol engine?
There are differences with 2.0/2.2 Diesel and 2.1 V6 petrol variants
When you say you are filling up a fresh half tank....... is that a half tank from empty, or do you refill your tank to the top when it gets half empty?
I know it sounds pedantic, but it might help me or others understand how full the tank is once you have done your 'half fill'.
Overfilling might saturate your evap system giving you some issues.
With the Evap management on these vehicles, when you start the car the Evap solenoids will briefly connect manifold vacuum to the canister to 'extract' any surplus fumes that are collected in that system. But I believe that happens at each start up if the vehicle has sat for any period.
Effectively the fuel tank operates with some degree of negative pressure.
A fault in the Evap solenoids or lines may effectively allow atmosphere to enter the system for the duration of the Evap purge process and give you the symptoms of a manifold vacuum leak that stops once the Evap cycle has completed, but that would be the case regardless of you filling or not.
Perhaps a good first test would be to just emulate your drive to the service station, release the fuel filler cap without adding any additional fuel, with the same duration of open tank and engine off (to emulate the filling procedure duration), refit the filler cap to then see if you have the same effect occur.
That will at least define if it is a consequence of tank pressure change and circumstances that is creating the initial hesitancy you are observing.
If it doesn't create the same issue, then do your actual normal fill sequence to confirm that you then get the issue.
The following users liked this post:
Grant Francis (07-02-2021)
#3
07-02-2021, 07:30 AM
Hi rm1111,
Some questions for you as this is very odd.
This problem only occurs after a fill, never when the car has just been sitting parked up for any period of time?
What engine type and size do you have (not in your message or profile), I am assuming either 2.5 or 3.0 V6 Petrol engine?
There are differences with 2.0/2.2 Diesel and 2.1 V6 petrol variants
When you say you are filling up a fresh half tank....... is that a half tank from empty, or do you refill your tank to the top when it gets half empty?
I know it sounds pedantic, but it might help me or others understand how full the tank is once you have done your 'half fill'.
Overfilling might saturate your evap system giving you some issues.
With the Evap management on these vehicles, when you start the car the Evap solenoids will briefly connect manifold vacuum to the canister to 'extract' any surplus fumes that are collected in that system. But I believe that happens at each start up if the vehicle has sat for any period.
Effectively the fuel tank operates with some degree of negative pressure.
A fault in the Evap solenoids or lines may effectively allow atmosphere to enter the system for the duration of the Evap purge process and give you the symptoms of a manifold vacuum leak that stops once the Evap cycle has completed, but that would be the case regardless of you filling or not.
Perhaps a good first test would be to just emulate your drive to the service station, release the fuel filler cap without adding any additional fuel, with the same duration of open tank and engine off (to emulate the filling procedure duration), refit the filler cap to then see if you have the same effect occur.
That will at least define if it is a consequence of tank pressure change and circumstances that is creating the initial hesitancy you are observing.
If it doesn't create the same issue, then do your actual normal fill sequence to confirm that you then get the issue.
Some questions for you as this is very odd.
This problem only occurs after a fill, never when the car has just been sitting parked up for any period of time?
What engine type and size do you have (not in your message or profile), I am assuming either 2.5 or 3.0 V6 Petrol engine?
There are differences with 2.0/2.2 Diesel and 2.1 V6 petrol variants
When you say you are filling up a fresh half tank....... is that a half tank from empty, or do you refill your tank to the top when it gets half empty?
I know it sounds pedantic, but it might help me or others understand how full the tank is once you have done your 'half fill'.
Overfilling might saturate your evap system giving you some issues.
With the Evap management on these vehicles, when you start the car the Evap solenoids will briefly connect manifold vacuum to the canister to 'extract' any surplus fumes that are collected in that system. But I believe that happens at each start up if the vehicle has sat for any period.
Effectively the fuel tank operates with some degree of negative pressure.
A fault in the Evap solenoids or lines may effectively allow atmosphere to enter the system for the duration of the Evap purge process and give you the symptoms of a manifold vacuum leak that stops once the Evap cycle has completed, but that would be the case regardless of you filling or not.
Perhaps a good first test would be to just emulate your drive to the service station, release the fuel filler cap without adding any additional fuel, with the same duration of open tank and engine off (to emulate the filling procedure duration), refit the filler cap to then see if you have the same effect occur.
That will at least define if it is a consequence of tank pressure change and circumstances that is creating the initial hesitancy you are observing.
If it doesn't create the same issue, then do your actual normal fill sequence to confirm that you then get the issue.
I own a 2002 X Type 3.0 V6 Automatic with 148,000.
This problem only occurs after a fresh top of gas it never happens when the car has been sitting say 30 minutes to overnight.
If I fill up the gas tank empty to half way the stuttering problem will occur.
If I fill the tank from empty to 100 percent full tank the issue does not exist.
This car is not my daily driver its a weekend car.
Thank you h2o2steam;2411619] I hope this info helps your advice.
Any assistance from anyone would be greatly apricated
#4
07-05-2021, 03:50 AM
Veteran Member
Sorry......I am wracking my brain as to what could be causing this scenario.
Empty to half full and you get the issue, but not if you fill all the way......bizarre problem.
OK, can you try at the next time you go to do you half fill, stop short of the station, shut off engine as you normally would at the station and then open you fuel cap for the time it takes you to do you half fill and refit cap. Then restart the car to see if you get the same stuttering issue without physically putting any fuel in.
If you then carry on the fuel station and do you half fill as normal and also see if the issue also happens when you actually fill.
I am wondering if the full fill sequence is not creating the issue due to the additional time it takes to complete that task compared to the half fill process.
Have you tried to see if you have any error codes with a OBD11 reader?
Any misfiring will generally create error codes.
If so can you post the list of codes as there might be some additional clues there.
Empty to half full and you get the issue, but not if you fill all the way......bizarre problem.
OK, can you try at the next time you go to do you half fill, stop short of the station, shut off engine as you normally would at the station and then open you fuel cap for the time it takes you to do you half fill and refit cap. Then restart the car to see if you get the same stuttering issue without physically putting any fuel in.
If you then carry on the fuel station and do you half fill as normal and also see if the issue also happens when you actually fill.
I am wondering if the full fill sequence is not creating the issue due to the additional time it takes to complete that task compared to the half fill process.
Have you tried to see if you have any error codes with a OBD11 reader?
Any misfiring will generally create error codes.
If so can you post the list of codes as there might be some additional clues there.
#5
07-05-2021, 07:54 AM
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h2o2steam, I am almost wondering if somehow doing the half fill forces air bubbles into the fuel pump which will then lead to the stumble/engine dieing. But, a full fill (from empty to full) gives the car time to work the bubbles out.
rm1111, the next time you get to a condition that you expect to have this failure happen, I want you to try something. Fill the car like you normally would. Get back into the car and before you start the car, roll the key to the RUN position and let the car sit for say 3 seconds (may hear the fuel pump run for a second or so, then stop). After the 3 seconds, then roll the key to the START position and start the car. Does this clear the problem? If so, I am wondering if the fuel pump is getting air inside of it as you are doing a fill. Just to get a full understanding of the situation, was the stumbling happening before you replaced the fuel pump? Did you install a Jaguar pump or some other brand pump?
rm1111, the next time you get to a condition that you expect to have this failure happen, I want you to try something. Fill the car like you normally would. Get back into the car and before you start the car, roll the key to the RUN position and let the car sit for say 3 seconds (may hear the fuel pump run for a second or so, then stop). After the 3 seconds, then roll the key to the START position and start the car. Does this clear the problem? If so, I am wondering if the fuel pump is getting air inside of it as you are doing a fill. Just to get a full understanding of the situation, was the stumbling happening before you replaced the fuel pump? Did you install a Jaguar pump or some other brand pump?
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