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No Start, stuck in park & at convenience store...??
04 - awd - 3.0.
key turns, with no red security light ( only on for 3 seconds then off. replaced ems relay with 41.00 Oreileys. Cant get out of park here are the instrument codes.
Our jags have a bad problem when it comes to the battery cables. They look fine from the outside but they get really bad on the inside. I think I would mess around with the cables to see if you move them and then the car starts. If so them they of course need replaced. When messing with them just don’t do it at the battery but instead move them along the full length. Sounds like you have either a bad cable connection somewhere or a bad cable. And it could also be either one of them.
Thanks TonyJ1977. i was able to get the vehicle towed home and after clearing the codes here are the codes that came up.
i replaced the battery in the key fob - and now im not hearing the 2nd chime after the sequence. ( possible bad key fob )
Any recommendations on where to order replacement. I only have / had this one.
Codes.:
P100 - I believe this is a " regular" codes everyone gets.
______
P1338 - regarding fuel pump ( im working on replacing the FP cannister )
______
Codes regarding this situation ( i believe )
P1637 - Can Link ECM/ABS control module.....
P1643 - Can Link Engine control module
P1699 - ECM / Climate control module
Can Link Engine control moduie / Network RCC malfunction. ....
Also, which leads me to believe its the key fob. after following the sequence:
drivers door open
turn key to position on. wait 5 seconds.
then back and forth times 4 ( until chime )
remove key.
then press any key fob button until Chime. Im not able to get the second chime.
leads me to believe this is all due to the original key Fob gone bad.
The FOB (meaning the lower part of the key, with the 4 buttons) has nothing to do with any security/disable on the X-Type. Mine has never worked, I don't even keep a battery in it any more. There is the physical key to turn the ignition switch and there is a little transponder embedded in the key holder near the key. That transponder works through some induction driven magnetic field magic, it needs no battery. You can slide the FOB off and leave it at home and your car will start just fine. IMHO the key FOB not pairing is not related to your no-start problem.
As TonyJ points out battery cables go bad and cause weird error codes. The Thermo test is turn on the seat heaters, rear window defrost, lights,...get a large electrical load going for a few minutes. Then cup your hands over the battery terminals WITHOUT touching them. If one is so hot it radiates heat you want to replace that battery cable.
I am worried about your fuel pump error code. No-start due to fuel pump problems just happened to me. If you have a an OBD-II code reader you should look at the fuel pressure. Or the tried and true method, if it cranks but doesn't start spray some starting fluid in. If it fires up for a second, it is a fuel problem.
Ive tried the terminal heat test but the heater / ac unit wont tuen on and neither will either of the heated seats.
P1699 - 1. Can Link ecm/climate control module
2. Can Link Engine control module / RCC network Malfunction ???
What is the RCC?
What leads me to a security failure is that the pcodes
P1338 - FP module
P1643 ECM / Transmission Control Module Circuit network
Seems all like when the ecm doesnt read something and shuts these systems down.
on the dash right under to the right of the jaguar emblem the red circle with the exclamation point lights up when i turn to on position.. see pic.
Just reading this thread....I am no expert on Jags at all (still debugging my recently acquired 2005 2.1 V6 X-type), but I have (dare I admit it) four decades of electronics experience ;-)
Knowing how many owners mention in these forums how poor battery voltages throw these cars for a loop, I would be starting with the hint that your rcar battery voltage is reporting at only 11.8V in your diagnostics.
A fully charged wet cell battery generally settles to a resting voltage of between 12.8V and 13.2V when there is no load present depending on battery chemistry.
When charging you can expect to see the battery voltage showing at up to 14.5V to 14.8V while actively being charged by the alternator.
11.8V sounds like a battery that is only partially charged (less than 50%), or has the beginnings of one weak cell. If that is the case then it is likely collapsing further when any significant load is being placed on it (head lights etc).
The compounding issue of a weak supply voltage then becomes if you try to start the car with that voltage disparity present, the voltage drop will actually be more pronounced with additional current draw, further triggering internal car management systems becoming very confused and throwing all sorts of red herring errors as the various sub systems will be making their own determinations of sensor readings and comms errors between modules.
My initial suggestion (which is a 5 minute quick initial check)....get the car into the same diagnostic mode as before which was showing you the 11.8V and then measure your battery voltage with a digital multi-meter right on the battery posts to see if the voltage there is different to that which the diagnostics are telling you.
If the meter is reading 11.8V right on the battery posts then I would be taking a closer look at the battery. Try measuring another known good battery (at rest) for voltage comparison, or dare is say it, jumper cable another battery across it.
If the battery voltage is actually in the upper 12V range and the diagnostics are still saying 11.8V, then you start the hunt for where the drop is happening.
A1 volt difference may seem small in theory, but it could be an indication of a bad terminal contact, corroded/fractured conductors in a cable or one of the chassis earthing points giving your ECU bad internal reference information. You can then go on the hunt with the multi-meter for a cable length or contact point that has a small but illogical voltage drop across it. Don't rule out resistive chassis earth points, especially if you have salt applied to your roads in winter months or if there has been significant work done on the car for engine/transmission removal/easing or chassis work for suspension or accident repairs. Someone could have had to undo a earth strap, or worse, stressed a earthing strap by not undoing it during a mechanical repair process. Electrical current will find alternate pathways to earth, but a diverted route will lead to greater voltage drop for that part of the system as the detour will add resistance.
Example: many many years ago Holden (GM Australia) had an issue with a model where prop shaft U joints and other drive line bearings were failing. Cause was found to be a earth strap from the engine block to the chassis would fracture and disengage, resulting in starter motor current and engine running current travelling through the engine block, transmission, out through the final drive, down the prop shaft into the rear differential to find a return path to the battery. The symptom was weak starter performance, the result was bearings in transmissions, prop shaft couplings and differentials were pitting and failing over time.
I hope that this helps you eliminate some possibilities.
Remember, the fastest way to solve a problem is to cut the possibilities in half each time.
Just reading this thread....I am no expert on Jags at all (still debugging my recently acquired 2005 2.1 V6 X-type), but I have (dare I admit it) four decades of electronics experience ;-)
Knowing how many owners mention in these forums how poor battery voltages throw these cars for a loop, I would be starting with the hint that your rcar battery voltage is reporting at only 11.8V in your diagnostics.
A fully charged wet cell battery generally settles to a resting voltage of between 12.8V and 13.2V when there is no load present depending on battery chemistry.
When charging you can expect to see the battery voltage showing at up to 14.5V to 14.8V while actively being charged by the alternator.
11.8V sounds like a battery that is only partially charged (less than 50%), or has the beginnings of one weak cell. If that is the case then it is likely collapsing further when any significant load is being placed on it (head lights etc).
The compounding issue of a weak supply voltage then becomes if you try to start the car with that voltage disparity present, the voltage drop will actually be more pronounced with additional current draw, further triggering internal car management systems becoming very confused and throwing all sorts of red herring errors as the various sub systems will be making their own determinations of sensor readings and comms errors between modules.
My initial suggestion (which is a 5 minute quick initial check)....get the car into the same diagnostic mode as before which was showing you the 11.8V and then measure your battery voltage with a digital multi-meter right on the battery posts to see if the voltage there is different to that which the diagnostics are telling you.
If the meter is reading 11.8V right on the battery posts then I would be taking a closer look at the battery. Try measuring another known good battery (at rest) for voltage comparison, or dare is say it, jumper cable another battery across it.
If the battery voltage is actually in the upper 12V range and the diagnostics are still saying 11.8V, then you start the hunt for where the drop is happening.
A1 volt difference may seem small in theory, but it could be an indication of a bad terminal contact, corroded/fractured conductors in a cable or one of the chassis earthing points giving your ECU bad internal reference information. You can then go on the hunt with the multi-meter for a cable length or contact point that has a small but illogical voltage drop across it. Don't rule out resistive chassis earth points, especially if you have salt applied to your roads in winter months or if there has been significant work done on the car for engine/transmission removal/easing or chassis work for suspension or accident repairs. Someone could have had to undo a earth strap, or worse, stressed a earthing strap by not undoing it during a mechanical repair process. Electrical current will find alternate pathways to earth, but a diverted route will lead to greater voltage drop for that part of the system as the detour will add resistance.
Example: many many years ago Holden (GM Australia) had an issue with a model where prop shaft U joints and other drive line bearings were failing. Cause was found to be a earth strap from the engine block to the chassis would fracture and disengage, resulting in starter motor current and engine running current travelling through the engine block, transmission, out through the final drive, down the prop shaft into the rear differential to find a return path to the battery. The symptom was weak starter performance, the result was bearings in transmissions, prop shaft couplings and differentials were pitting and failing over time.
I hope that this helps you eliminate some possibilities.
Remember, the fastest way to solve a problem is to cut the possibilities in half each time.
Thank you for your response.
I'll check the voltage tomorrow when I have the chance. There hasn't been any collision damage rework etc. Currently though I'm in need of replacing the left front lower control arm - large bushing and the passenger side lower ball joint. Could this be grounding out?
I've disconnected the battery and negative terminals this far and wd 40'd the connection to regain proper metal to metal. I haven't loosened the positive connections to the alternator etc yet. Anything to be aware of for cleaning these? Have tomorrow and the weekend off so yeah_. Weekend project!!
Hi,
Looking at the wiring diagram for my 2005 model, there are over 20 individual grounding points stipulated for the car. They range from about 8-10 under the bonnet on chassis, engine and sub frame, to various locations inside the cabin (A pillars) E post and trunk.
If you are hunting poor grounds start with any that are forward of the front seats (bottom of A pillars, chassis (either side of cross beam) and engine bay (below battery tray and behind power distribution box, RH strut tower, generator bracket, ABS control module mounting bracket).
If you haven't got a wiring diagram for your model you might find a suitable one here: JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource
The appropriate wiring diagram should give you the grounding point positions for your model (version LHD/RHD, Estate/Wagon or Saloon)
Hope you find some answers or at least can start to whittle down the possibilities.
Not sure if I posted this but got a new battery and put it in and it fired right up. Got it about half way home and then turned it off wouldn't crank. Got the car to crank again with the new battery on charge over night. A few days ago. Took the car and battery back to AutoZone and when they out a load in it you could hear the engine drop. The guy mentioned bad alternator. Got it back home took the battery positive and negative cables off and cleaned them put them back and still no crank. Turn the key. All light on dash on. Security light on for about 3 seconds then off.
Thanks for the additional description of events, there are some good clues there I think.
What is the current battery voltage measuring?
If it is low again (under 12.6 to 12.8 volts), charge the battery until it is full.
If the car then successfully cranks over and starts with no error lights on dash, keep it running and measure the battery voltage at the terminals again.
If the alternator is working properly you should be seeing a voltage of 14+ volts being applied by the alternator to the battery to recharge it after the starting sequence.
If you do not have that present and are only seeing something in the 12 volt range being present on the battery terminals, try briefly manually increasing engine revs to above 1200 RPM to see if alternator output kicks in more and the voltage rises (alternators may not provide much charge output when a car engine is on low idle as they might not be spinning fast enough).
If the battery voltage does not show a voltage in the high 13's to low to mid 14 volts range, then the alternator likely has issue with it bad diode or regulator pack, worn slip ring brushes or a wiring continuity issue to the alternator connection.
That would certainly give you the effect of the car working for a short period when the battery charge state is good, but developing degrading system issues as the battery voltage decays (you might have seen this scenario play out occasionally if you watch circuit or endurance motor racing events).
The spurious electrical noise that can created by a leaky diode in the alternator will be broadcast throughout the electrical system of the car and can scramble or disrupt more sensitive car management systems.
In a time before cars got so complex, you would often only detect this type of diode leakage issue when your car did not recharge itself properly during normal driving causing eventual weak start, or the car radio gave a whining noise out the speakers that was changing pitch coinciding with engine revs.
If you haven't got a digital multi-meter, you can pick up a functional basic meter from an Autostore for probably around $20-$30.
Set it to DC - Voltage range (not AC ~ voltage range).
You usually have two flexible test probe leads (one red = positive and one black = negative) and the black lead plugs into the "Common" socket of the meter.
The red lead should plug into the socket that is marked for measuring voltages, resistance and capacitance.
There is third socket on most multi-meters which is only used when you are measuring currents (Amps).
IMPORTANT: Do not have the meter lead plugged into the current testing socket and then try to measure voltages, as the meter will act as a "short" on the circuit you are testing and either blow fuses in the car or in the meter itself!
When you finish with any current measuring task, always move the red lead back to the voltage measuring socket, that way you don't fall into that trap next time you use the meter.
Thanks for the additional description of events, there are some good clues there I think.
What is the current battery voltage measuring?
If it is low again (under 12.6 to 12.8 volts), charge the battery until it is full.
If the car then successfully cranks over and starts with no error lights on dash, keep it running and measure the battery voltage at the terminals again.
If the alternator is working properly you should be seeing a voltage of 14+ volts being applied by the alternator to the battery to recharge it after the starting sequence.
If you do not have that present and are only seeing something in the 12 volt range being present on the battery terminals, try briefly manually increasing engine revs to above 1200 RPM to see if alternator output kicks in more and the voltage rises (alternators may not provide much charge output when a car engine is on low idle as they might not be spinning fast enough).
If the battery voltage does not show a voltage in the high 13's to low to mid 14 volts range, then the alternator likely has issue with it bad diode or regulator pack, worn slip ring brushes or a wiring continuity issue to the alternator connection.
That would certainly give you the effect of the car working for a short period when the battery charge state is good, but developing degrading system issues as the battery voltage decays (you might have seen this scenario play out occasionally if you watch circuit or endurance motor racing events).
The spurious electrical noise that can created by a leaky diode in the alternator will be broadcast throughout the electrical system of the car and can scramble or disrupt more sensitive car management systems.
In a time before cars got so complex, you would often only detect this type of diode leakage issue when your car did not recharge itself properly during normal driving causing eventual weak start, or the car radio gave a whining noise out the speakers that was changing pitch coinciding with engine revs.
If you haven't got a digital multi-meter, you can pick up a functional basic meter from an Autostore for probably around $20-$30.
Set it to DC - Voltage range (not AC ~ voltage range).
You usually have two flexible test probe leads (one red = positive and one black = negative) and the black lead plugs into the "Common" socket of the meter.
The red lead should plug into the socket that is marked for measuring voltages, resistance and capacitance.
There is third socket on most multi-meters which is only used when you are measuring currents (Amps).
IMPORTANT: Do not have the meter lead plugged into the current testing socket and then try to measure voltages, as the meter will act as a "short" on the circuit you are testing and either blow fuses in the car or in the meter itself!
When you finish with any current measuring task, always move the red lead back to the voltage measuring socket, that way you don't fall into that trap next time you use the meter.
Traded the other new battery with another new from autozone. Car still won't turn over. All lights on dash including red circle with exclamation. Security light goes out. Same codes although this time a continuing buzzing from tps. Could this going out cause no crank no start..
The transmission warning light is indicating the ECU is not in full communication with the transmission controller.
Your instrument panel odometer being blanked likely means it has not successfully initialized from the ECU either and successfully pulled the stored mileage data from that.
Do any of the lights on the dash change state? E.G. If all the doors are closed does the door warning light extinguish? Park brake light goes out if brake released?
Any audible chime when you try to pull the gear shift out of park?
I think you are going to have to check the CAN Bus lines are good from your ECU to the transmission module, Instrument cluster, J Gate module, braking, traction and stability modules etc.
Looking at my 2005 schematic it looks like yellow and green wires from pins 123 and 124 on ECM go to the TCM and then daisy chain around to various other modules.
Depending on your version of TCM; there are two variants a 16Bit module that has a single large connector (Blue) going into it, or the 32 Bit module that has two connectors (White and Grey).
The CAN Bus comes and goes in and out of the 16Bit on JB131 pins 33 & 34 (Yellow) and pins 12 & 13 (Green).
Alternatively the CAN Bus comes and goes in and out of the 32Bit on JB230 pins 5 & 14 (Yellow) and pins 6 & 15 (Green).
You need to check that the ECM CAN Bus lines have continuity through to the TCM, that both wires are in tact - neither wire in the loom is open circuit or shorted to each other, or either shorted to ground.
It seems as though you have some communication issues between modules, therefore they are not coming to a ready state to allow the ECU to proceed with any secondary functions.
Can Bus continuity is the best place to start, compromised wires or corroded/damaged connectors. Beyond that is the possibility of a failed module somewhere dragging the system down.
So ive had someone look at it with me and it seems that im not getting a signal from the ecu ( 5v). brake lights wont come on. still stuck in park and no flashing security light.
Getting a "click " when trying to move from park.
getting the " beeeping" when trying to move from park
checked all the fuses - good
relays are " pulling in "
ecu / abs can link error
ecu / tcm can link error p1643
ecu / climate control error / rcc netwrok malfunction p1699
Last edited by CBenbrook347; 05-03-2021 at 05:36 PM.
Your ECU seems not to be successfully communicating to any outlying modules.
You are going to need to confirm CAN bus lines have continuity from ECU to TCM and ABS modules.
As mentioned prior, CAN BUS is transported between modules on green and yellow wires, but you probably should search for and download a schematic of your year of car and then you can determine the the ECU type and TCM variant you have for your engine type to attain the correct pin outs. Below is my 2005 model which might be close but there may be some variations over the production years.
If CAN wires have good continuity (near to zero ohms reading for each individual wire) to respective module plugs, and the module pins are clean and corrosion free, make sure none of the wires are measuring a low resistance to earth or internally shorting between the yellow and green themselves. If looms are good, then CAN BUS communication should be flowing. Often there is a CAN BUS distribution IC in one of the modules that orchestrates communication around the car. I am not sure on these cars which module may host that function but it could be the TCM when you look at the schematic. The ECM, Stability, Traction, ABS module group seems to tie via the TCM through to the instrument cluster, J-Gate module and Yaw/Tilt sensors etc.
Good luck with your investigation. 2005 X-Type CAN BUS interconnect
Your ECU seems not to be successfully communicating to any outlying modules.
You are going to need to confirm CAN bus lines have continuity from ECU to TCM and ABS modules.
As mentioned prior, CAN BUS is transported between modules on green and yellow wires, but you probably should search for and download a schematic of your year of car and then you can determine the the ECU type and TCM variant you have for your engine type to attain the correct pin outs. Below is my 2005 model which might be close but there may be some variations over the production years.
If CAN wires have good continuity (near to zero ohms reading for each individual wire) to respective module plugs, and the module pins are clean and corrosion free, make sure none of the wires are measuring a low resistance to earth or internally shorting between the yellow and green themselves. If looms are good, then CAN BUS communication should be flowing. Often there is a CAN BUS distribution IC in one of the modules that orchestrates communication around the car. I am not sure on these cars which module may host that function but it could be the TCM when you look at the schematic. The ECM, Stability, Traction, ABS module group seems to tie via the TCM through to the instrument cluster, J-Gate module and Yaw/Tilt sensors etc.
Good luck with your investigation. 2005 X-Type CAN BUS interconnect
Ok. I pulled the tcm and opened it . Doesn't seem to have any burn spots. But since it's only 5v I doubt any would show. Hopefully if it's only the tcm - does that need to be " programmed" to the car?
Unsure, but I would'n't be surprised if it needs to be associated to to the ECM etc.
What puzzles me is the comprehensive lack of comms to any module, almost like the whole system is down.
You have verified relevant wire continuity to ABS and TCM from the ECM?
The ECM connector and contacts have been known to get water damaged as it sits facing upwards in the engine bay on the firewall?
It could get expensive trying to diagnose this comms fault without the appropriate service level reader and diagnostic/programming software.
Once you have done the grunt work and ruled out the wiring harness and any breaks or shorts, you might actually be better to seek out the appropriate service point in your area who can diagnose with greater accuracy and program any replacement module(s) that might be needed.
03-26-2021, 09:53 AM
No Start, stuck in park & at convenience store...??
