..Ps and a happy new year....just turned 2am over here...HIC!

 

Happy New Year to you too..just a little less than 4 hours away for me..Burp!

 

I've still got 4-1/2 hours to go..... and the kids are drinking all the good stuff!
(we're non-alcoholic when we're at the house.... so "the good stuff" consists of Diet Coke and Martinellis [X(] )

 

EBC , Akebono and OEM, Ive tried others, low dusting auto parts storeceramic, semi ceramic etc, and couldn't even activate ABS in the rain. Switched to EBC. and have done AK's on customer cars on the side all with good to great results. I havent every used my Gtech meter to test different pads, but I recommend only EBC, OEM, or Ak's never gotten good results from anything else. Ive used green stuff EBC, but will be useing REDstuff in the near future, with new slotted crossdrilled rotors

 

another thing to remember on brakes is proper bedding or breakin of pads, there are lots of good info if you google, and most manufactures will tell you that proper breakin is very important to performance and life of not only brakes, but tires as well. And I see this all day on brakes on customer cars. same model, same oem brakes, but 1 has glazed pads and rotors that swueel and brake like Fred Flintstone, and another that puts your face to the windshield if you dont have your seatbelt on.....The differance,,,the person driving the car and the way they brake and what if any breakin was done when they where new

 

Not that your words need any back-up from me but I certainly agree about the importance of proper bedding-in. A lot of DYIers don't bother reading the directions that (usually) come with the pads, which are sometimes quite specific. Some don't bother (or are even aware of) bedding-in at all. I've even seen some professional techs skip this step, which I think is very wrong. Bedding-in is part of a brake job, not customer responsibility.

And, yes, glazing can destroy the effectiveness of any brake pad. I've seen some cheapies glaze over after just one severe stopping event.

Cheers
DD

 

Throw enough circumstantial evidence in front of a jury and they'll happily convict


I'm not trying to argue but something has to be said for anecdotal evidence. True enough, there's nothing like scientific measurement and proof but most of us don't have the means for that.

How much credence we put in another person's remarks depends on many things and I suspect not many of us would allow ourselves to be unduly influenced by just one opinion from an unknown source. OTOH, if a couple of the opinions come from informed people I know and trust, and/or appear to have been formed from multiple repeat experiences,that may well be all the "proof" I need.

For example, hearing from just one person that the brakes are sub-par onthe X-typeis something I took as a bit "iffy". But now that several people have chimed in with similar opinions I have tothink that there is validity, at least some validity, to the complaint.

All that said, I don't really see how a conversation regarding braking effectiveness can held, and opinions be given full weight, without knowing the details of how the car is used and under what circumstances the opinion was formed. I've heard enough to make mesuspcious about X-type brakes but not enough by way of details for me to summarily condemn them in my own mind. I gather that the issue is"poor stopping power" but that's pretty general.

Ramble switch "off" now

Cheers
DD

 

well, it seems your "science" (which is usually terribly incomplete, because you pick seemingly at random the factors you'd like to figure-in, and ignore all of the myriad other factors that must e part of a real world calculation) isn't any better, and may actually be worse, as generally your "science" is being used by you to try to contradict real world experience shared by many / most....

to address your other points:
Yes, in fact you DO talk down to people. Quite regularly. I've summarized the way you do this before, so I don't need to do it again.... unless you'd like me to. And I'm not the "baby" Bo, it seems you are the only one who has dropped to that level; using the F-bomb on me, name-calling, etc etc. (Don't argue Bo, just go do a search with your name, and read your posts) You seem to want to hold yourself up to be this 'Guru', on par with your hallowed Jaguar Engineers, but I wonder if that is working, since you find it necessary here to remind us of how "much you do here".....

I never suggested that the Engineers design brakes on the track. I have asserted in many other of these conversations, that what's good on the track is ALMOST ALWAYS good for the street. Of course there are some very obvious exceptions to that. But to suggest (as you have) that knowledge gained at the racetrack through back-to-back trials, etc, is of no value, is ludicrous.

Now, back to the original question:
so, here we go again then Bo. WHY exactly would you recommend to someone that they spend equal or greater amounts of money for brakes that are LESS than what they COULD buy?

This is the world of your inconsistencies:
on the right-hand, Brakes:
"You don't need aftermarket brakes.... the factory brakes will work just as well in 90% of driving conditions"
left-hand, Tires:
"You really need snow tires. Sure, all-seasons will work great 99% of the time, but what about that 1% of the time when you need something more?"

I just don't get it.
Unless you've got stock in tires and not brakes.

 

huh. see, that's funny.... 'cuz me, I just build, modify, test, and race cars and bikes. So, of course once again, I will suggest that your 'science' (even if it were not flawed as yours is) does NOT trump my experience. I will suggest AGAIN that this is why REAL engineers, the smart guys who really want to understand how stuff works, back-up their data with REAL-WORLD tests.
Bo, just 'cuz your calculations tell you that what just happened could not have happened, does NOT mean it didn't happen. It means you missed something.

And I'm not about to sit here silent while you continue to fill these threads with half-right ideas and unproven theories, when I (and many others here) have very real-world, first-hand experience that debunks your high-school-science-project calculations.

Bo, I'm guessing that you wouldn't know a set of "competition brakes" if they fell on your toes. I could be wrong here, so let me know if I am.... but your opinions and complete misunderstanding of what goes on at a racetrack would suggest to me that you have never spent much time on one. That's okay. It's not for everyone. But for you to suggest that you know something about it just makes me laugh out loud, every time.
Not all "Competition Brakes" are carbon brakes. Not all are designed to be warmed-up first. Not all are designed equally. But that really was not the point beind my post. My point was that when I can try several different brakes, Back to Back, and I can identify advantages and disadvantages of each setup, including significant variations in stopping distances, besides the other MORE BENEFICIAL advantages to better brakes, you cannot then come on here and tell me that your so-called 'engineering data' tells you that it can't be.
It is what it is, Bo. And that's also why I said that I would trust EBC's brake designers over Jaguars' brake designers ANY DAY. It's what they do.

 

it sucks that we've once again turned this thread into the "Bo and McJaguar show". I'm guessing others are tired of it, as I am tired of it.

So let's let this be yet one more "Agree to Disagree" points. I've made my point about the brakes, and it seems to be well supported both in my own posts and those of others posting here.
Your ideas are valid, but seem incomplete, as they run counter to an overwhelming amount of data in the form of FHE and current brake design and technology.

That's all I need to say. You get the last word.

 

in all fairness Bo is somewhat right. Racing or Competition brakes are not ideal for every day street driving. Those types of brakes need a certain amount of heat to work well and by going 25 MPH from stop light to stop sign just does not produce the heat needed. I will say they look cool and the idea of having such breaks is nice but not practical. In the same light, it's not like these breaks (competition) are going to fail or not work it just is a waste of money IMO. McJaguar, you must have noticed that when you first pull on to a track and start to drive that if you do not maintain enough speed (to produce friction because of heat) in your breaks they fad and do not work that well. I think for the X-Type, the OEM stuff is fine. Now don't get me wrong I would love to have slotted rotors and fancy pads but in real world driving, not track driving, they just don't work better... (I say all this now and watch, in a few months I will be buying a set.)

 

Honestly...My stock brakes were fine..

My complaints was/were (also typical of all Euro cars I've owned)

1. Pads and Rotors Wore out too fast

2. Dirty little buggers..I mean, REALLY DIRTY[:@]

Pro's..They were quiet and stopped well..



My EBC Sports Slotted and Dimpled Rotors+ the Akebono Euro pads are:

1. Long lasting

2. Very, very, veryclean

3. Very quiet, except for the faint whirr/whish soundof the slotted Rotors

4. Stopping power is better than stock.

5. They look cool

 

just to be clear:
I NEVER said that 'racing brakes' are good for the street.
I said that knowledge gained at the racetrack has applicable value to the street.
(I DID say that not all 'racing' brakes require the attention to heat that you're attributing to them.... but I would not go so far as to say they'd be good for street use.)

But when you have an opportunity to drive the same track over and over, and use many different parts, noting the differences between them, in repeatable conditions, then you can't get much more "scientific-method" than that! And then you know what works better than others... and in what conditions...
this is tough to do in street driving, but part of every day at the track.