Hello Friends,

My 2002 X- Type 3.0 has a wierd issue.
Currently its seems to be getting worse.

I started my car in winter in my garage.

The car has anew starter and start up fine, it seems to idle around the number 1.
The about 3 -5 minutes later it as if someone stepped on the gas pedal and all of a sudden the idle jumps to 2 in a roar.
Suddemly I get a :
1. ENGINE SYSTEMS FAULT,
2. GEAR BOX FAULT
3. DSC FAULT

I shut off the car , wait about 12 minutes and start the car suddenly the car runs and shift with no problems.
The car will do the exact same thing every morning if i let it get cold overnight or dont turn on at all.

So here are the SCAN CODES : P300, P301,P303,P305,P306, P354 P1111,P1316,P0121

My car already has a new brand new radiator, 2 new brand new cataylic converters, new fuel pump and new fuel filter.
New Cabin filter, New air filter, New front intake manifold gaskets and 6 new bosch sparks plugs and 1 new bosch oxygen sensor bank 2.

( I eventually plan to replace all 6 coils, new delpi or denso sparks plugs, all upper and lower intake manifold gaskets, a new AC compressor and condensor, a new throttle body position sensor and throttle body and alternator)

Any thoughts or help would be greatly apprieciated.

Thanks ! RM

 

At first it kind of sounded like a vacuum leak to me. BUT, you have P0301, P0303, P0305, P0306. Basically 4 of you 6 cylinders are misfiring and your coil on cylinder 4 is failing (P0354). How is the car running or even getting you anywhere??? On my 2006, if even one cylinder misfires I get a CEL light and it runs horribly. P1111 is normal and its typically always there.

I think your problem is your plugs. They may just be gapped incorrectly, but you need to replace all of your plugs (and possibly coils) before assuming it is another problem entirely. The other two codes imply that your throttle position sensor is bad and that you have excessive misfires due to bad fuel injection/injectors. Frankly, those very well could be the causation of bad plugs and possibly coils. Replace your plugs (and at least the 3 back coils if you can - you'll be glad you did later) with laser platinum plugs and gap them at spec - I believe 0.052. Do not use plugs that have multiple prongs. After doing that, then drive it around for a week and see if you have continued issues. I'm not sure if you are mechanically inclined, but replacing the plugs is something you could do yourself and you don't need to pay a mechanic the hundreds to do it. There are plenty of write ups on this forum.

If after replacing the plugs the issue(s) persist my next thought is: Since it idles, but instead of kicking the RPMs down once warm you say it spikes up to 2K, if it stays at 2K and never drops down that's probably a TPS (throttle position sensor - P0121) failure. If the RPMs kick down after spiking up to 2K, then it may be a vacuum leak. Some things I can think of to check/replace for a vacuum leak:

Do you have the upgraded big ribbed hose that goes from the intake manifold to the valve cover?
There's a small hose that is brittle and runs from the back of the intake manifold to the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor, is that intact? Is it there?
Probably not the issue, but IMT Valve gaskets (Intake Tuning Valves) are often recommended on the forum to be replaced.
Do you have the OEM airbox or are you doing an aftermarket intake? I have yet to find an aftermarket intake setup that didn't throw codes. The Cat seems to be sensitive to anything other than the stock set up.

I inserted a picture of things to check.

 

I revise my suggestion and I suggest instead to replace your TPS. Then clear the codes and drive for a bit to see if the misfires codes return. If they do return, then replace the plugs and so on.

I'm not sure about a 2002 and if the TPS and Throttle Body are one unit, or if the TPS can just be replaced. On my 2006, the TPS is riveted to the throttle body and I have to replace the whole throttle body.

 

If you're doing the plugs and coils then do both the upper and lower intake manifold gaskets as well at the same time, you are already there, to get to the lowers is far less complex than it seems at first. Maybe an extra five minutes of work and they are likely original. Cheap parts too. The black insert piece that the fuel rail attaches to (below the upper intake, and above the lower intake portion) just requires four bolts to be removed, a small hose to be pulled off, and then perhaps nudged laterally with light pressure from a screwdriver to lift straight up and then folded back a bit. All fuel system stuff remains in place. Easy and likely eliminates that as a cause for any future or current concern for as long as you own the car.

 

Ok hello all..
update,

I have replaced all of the 6 spark plugs, + intake manifold gaskets, new cabin filter, all sunroof hoses cleaned and yes i found a vaccum leak with the machine at the shop and sealed it.
New problem now - Exact same behavior ... let me be much more specific ..

...im sure it the dreaded TPM Getting wet / moisture issue

I can drive around the without issue once its fully warmed up but here what happens...

1. start the car engine is cold. let it warm up for 3 - 5 minutes then it roars then i turn it off and wait for 3 min while engine start to get hot.
2. I noticed after turning it on and off a few times the engine temp gets closer to the middle and stays there.
3. Once the engine get up to full the temp ( right in the middle) it drives just fine (LIKE NOTHING EVER HAPPENS)
4. It apperently related to moisture. im assuming there are some dust bunnies and some sort of gunk or mildew that has made its way into the TPM. My car is always inside the garage but if it rains outside the moisture in the air creates that problem! but if it very hot outside no rain no moisture NO PROBLEM.

5. I will have my mechanic (my brother remove the TPM) and i will open it up then spray it with compressed air and may a little ear with with a small dash of acholhol.
6, I will seal it with silicone so NO WATER can get into it.

Remember If the engine is fully warm then the problem does not exist.

A different mechinc recommended a use a rubber glove or some type of bag to around it completely ... ?
Any thought or suggestions ...???

i LOOK FOR TO YOUR FEEDBACK
THANKS!
RM

 

Did you replace your coils too, or just your plugs? You should replace coils when replacing plugs on our cars.

Are you still getting codes? If you’re still getting the same codes you need to do the coils too.

Don’t go cheap. I did Denso my first time and one failed. Then I did NGK and it cost me a little extra, but i haven’t had a misfire problem since. Post your codes.

 

Oh yes ibuddy , forgot to mention all new coils denso ..
Any other thoughts ?
RM

 

The engine will be running in open loop mode when started from cold, meaning it is not necessarily looking at all peripheral sensors. In open loop mode the ECM is fueling the engine according to factory standard reference tables and parameters.
Once the engine starts to warm up it is then beginning to close the loop and utilize peripheral sensor data to accurately manage the engine.
So the only conclusion I can think of (imho) would be that there is something fundamental like an air leak or odd injector behaviour that might be making the engine perform out of spec, but when the ECM management loop closes it can compensate sufficiently for the error.

 

Thanks h2o2steam & ugotmale for your imput i will definately give you all further updates as i continue down this repair journey.
kind regards
RM

 

Are you getting any codes?

 

Yes , here are the codes...8 of them

P0174, P300, P301, P303 ,P305, P1316, P0037, P0121, P1111

Any thoughts?

RM

 

P0037 - Bank 1 downstream HO2 sensor - faulty sensor or wiring
P300 - Random misfire
P301, P303, P305 - Misfires on cylinders 1, 3, 5.
P1316 - Excessive misfire (resultant code of too many P30x codes)
P121 - TP Sensor
P174 - Misfire (possible air leak between MAF sensor and throttle body, error from either HO2 sensors in bank 2, exhaust leak before catalyst)

Go after misfires first.
Seeing you have done plugs and coils, check new plug gaps and what plugs did you install (X-Types don't like fancy plugs, single fire platinum or iridium)?
Bank 1 HO2 downstream sensor issue should be checked out for any issue.
P300 and P1316 are consequential codes.
P121 shouldn't cause misfires, performance restrictions (<3000rpm) more likely.
P174 may be legacy of your previously found air leak if codes not cleared.

 

Well, P301, 303 and 305 are misfires so I’m inclined to say that your plugs are either gaped wrong or your coils are bad. I’d check the plugs first. It’s odd to have 3 new coils all be bad.

For P1316 it’s an injector but it could be triggered by the above. P1316 is O2, but likely a cause of the misfire on 1,3 or 6. The other two are ECM and TPS, but again likely a result of the detected misfire. I think you need to revisit your plugs and check the gap, or try different coils. Check the plugs for your TPS to make sure it’s not frayed or damaged.

 

I was there when my brother replaced the head gasket and all upper & lower head gaskets,
we replaced all of the sparks (new), coils ( new) , new MAF, New throttle body which came with a new TPS.(Throttle position sensor) all at the same time.


So at least for now I will focus to resealing the ECM and TCM. Yesterday it rained all day and night the jag was kept in the garage and didnt see not one drop of water. it was very foggy outside. just out of curiousity i decided to go in the garage to start the car. WOW ! as soon as I stated the car the reved up like crazy i shut of immediatley.
what ever dust bunnies or crud/ mildew etc im sure water / mositure is the culprit. I do remember also replaceing the long cabin filter underneath the cowl the old was half soaked and wet. also if i take the car into a car wash some water will fall on the passengers side.
I will update you with the results after seal the ecm ( electronic control module ) and TCM ( trasmission control module)

thanks again and stay tuned...ugotmale
RM

 

Also to add i plan to replace and of the spark plugs and coils with brand new NGK ones.
The cheap ebay ones i have now do work fine for now...

 

Oh yes ibuddy , forgot to mention all new coils denso ..
Any other thoughts ?
RM

 

Sounds like your drain holes under the front window scuttle are blocked.
You need to clear those drains so the cabin filter does not get wet, which unfortunately then lets water into the heater intake that then finds its way on the wiring loom and down onto the TCM.
If you open the TCM, you'll probably find some corrosion on the internal connector and possibly reaching onto the main PCB.

Engine should never start with such high RPM.....that is a mystery.
Throttle body must be getting told to open up either by bad command from ECM, or the throttle pedal sensor is sending incorrect values to ECM.
You should be able to do some checks for the throttle APP sensor voltages to the ECM with ignition on but car not running.

 

Hello I just read your response.

Hello h2o2steam,

I will take a look at it also thanks,I found this video on youtube etc.

is this what you are reffering too ?

 

Yes, often you are clearing the debris from topside while you are changing the cabin filter (while you have the scuttle cover lifted up), but as the video shows, you can get to the drain exit point from inside the wheel arch behind the liner.

Either way....a whole lot of crud can build up in there is the car gets exposed to the usual falling organic debris, then it won't drain properly and you get water ingress.
Typically a wet carpet on LH foot well, TCM gets water tracking down loom, cabin filter filament gets contaminated etc.