X-Type ( X400 ) 2001 - 2009
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Stutters, 2007 x-type

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Old 09-20-2020, 08:54 AM
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Default Stutters, 2007 x-type

I have read about 5 posts on this problem, all older posts 2012-2016. Error codes are P0300, P1313, and P1316. The 300 code means misfire probably all cylinders. 13 and 16 are air/ cat sensors problems. Everyone has tried everything and nobody had a definitive answer? Plug replacement, coil replacement, and every step in between. The only two solutions that seemed to maybe work is cleaning the engine management box but, I didn't know how far to take the cleaning and using a couple of additives, I assume because of bad fuel entered into the system? Of course the last two no posts were made to say thanks that work or not. Thanks in advance for your help.
 
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:16 AM
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P1316 & P1316 mean misfires so bad they're doing catalyst damage, Read the full meaning and causes in the Jaguar doc - not quite what you've posted.

(Don't assume.)

Bad coil(s) / air leak(s), commonly. Smoke test / COP test...
 
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Old 09-20-2020, 07:43 PM
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keithet58, the P0300 is simply saying that the car is seeing misfires, but it is not happening often enough for it to narrow it down to a specific cylinder. With this being said, I have a few ideas for you to try. The first is to simply let the car sit over night (you want the entire engine bay at ambient temp). Now, start up the car, turn on the seat heaters, dash fan on high, max heat, and rear defroster. Let the car idle like this for 5-10 minutes. Now, turn off the car and then open the hood and cup your hand over the battery posts. Do the post feel about the same temp as other metal parts of the car or is one/both of the terminals VERY HOT (like fry an egg HOT!!!!!). If you have a hot battery terminal, you need to replace that battery cable and then see what you have.

Assuming your battery cables are good, when did you last replace the battery. If it has been more than a year, have your local auto parts store do a load test on the battery. If it comes back at 75% or less, replace the battery. A low capacity in the battery causes voltage oscillations to make it to the computer and cause it to do funny things.

From here, we start having to eliminate things. The most likely thing is water/oil inside a plug well. If you have not replaced the spark plugs in the last 50K miles, this would probably be a good time to do it. You will need to remove the intake and then pull each and every coil and look at the end for signs of oil. Odds are, if you are going to see oil, it will be on the 3 cylinders on the back of the engine (nearest the firewall). If you see oil, then a new valve cover gasket is in order. After this, look at the rubber boot on each coil. If you can rub that boot and get a black "dust" off of the coil, the boots need to be replaced. After that, pull the plug and see if it looks like the others. The plug should have a light gray/slight orangish color to it. If you find one that is black, that would be your problem child and most likely requires a new spark plug and coil (can't really determine which is bad, so, easiest to replace both to prevent having to go back in again). At this point, you can put your intake back on.

The final check I would do is behind the passenger side headlight, there should be some wires coming down that bolt on to the side of the front head. These are the grounds for the coils. Remove the bolt holding the wires to the block and make sure that they are silver in color. If they are a gray/rust color, rub them with a wire brush to get them back to silver. If in doubt, hit them with the wire brush. make sure to wire brush the area on the block where the wires touch and the bolt too.
 
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:22 PM
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Thermo thanks for the reply, I just bought the car I could look back at the Carfax to see when the last plug change? When, you mentioned the battery that sorts of hit a spot, the battery in the compartment only fills up about 2/3rds of the battery box? As for the box with the wires, some of the pins look like they are copper so, I may do a better job of cleaning them. Just to ask while I have you, the rubber gasket that separates the two ends of the box should you tighten until the rubber gasket is flush or until the bolt is completely tight making the gasket deform?
 
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Old 09-21-2020, 08:39 AM
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Keithet58, with any gasket, tighter does not mean better. Most gaskets seal best with light pressure. Even systems that hold back 1,000+ psig hydraulic fluid, the gasket is only slightly crushed. What stops you from being able to tighten the joint any more is the metal part of the fitting. Should the gasket deform. Slightly. so, yes, the gasket needs to deform a little bit. But, notice, a little bit. If you are having to tighten the snot out of it to make it seal, you have another issue.

If someone put a small battery into the battery box, that may be the issue. As a general condition, you should have a battery that is what is referred to as a 94R battery. This number specifies size and ratings. This should have 800 CCA, be a 12V battery, that has 80 amp-hour capacity. If you find a 94R battery that has say 700 CCA, that will work, but you are likely to have issues sooner. Will the 800 CCA battery cost you a little more. Yes. But what is it worth to not have problems? I would still do the cable check on the battery because as you will find out, battery cables are a common source of random problems like this on the X-Type.
 
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:44 PM
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Similar issues here so thought I would join in this discussion. Last week got stuttering on the way home with flashing and then solid CEL. I ditched the car overnight. Codes were P0301 and P1313. When I attempted to drive the car home the next morning, which was quite cold, it drove like a champ. In my experience coils go bad when they get hot so my previous bad coil on this car a year ago plus the car running great when cold was enough for me to order a new ignition coil. Then I thought better of it and ordered 3 so I could replace all 3 cylinders in the back so I wouldn't have to take the intake manifold off every 1k miles.

Swapped in the 3 new coils this morning and looked at the plugs (which have maybe 5k miles on them since new). All the plugs and coils were clean and dry, no oil and no water. Plugs looked the same as each other and looked normal. Drove the car around for 30 minutes city and highway to check it out, ran like a champ. Stop to go shopping so the engine was off 15 minutes, get in, drive 2 minutes and the engine starts stuttering again. Flashing CEL within seconds. Pull the car over, shut engine off. Codes are now P0303 and P1313. Cylinder 3 had a clean plug and a brand new coil 2 hours previous! Clear codes, drive another 2 miles with the engine obviously struggling, CEL starts flashing. Codes are now P0300, P0303, P0306, P1313, and P1316. I managed to get the car home by driving very slowly and being real easy on the throttle so made the last 4 miles with no CEL. I won't say I did the car any good, it smelled awful when I finally got home.

Thanks for the tips Thermo. I will check the battery terminals, clean the coil ground wires, and check for vacuum leaks. It has to be something systemic, I can't believe I would suddenly get misfires on 3 different cylinders.
 
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Old 09-21-2020, 06:28 PM
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dh53 I think this must be the season for misfires, I just recently bought my 2007 x-type, I found that the battery was too small and I have coils coming and picked up the plugs today. Today I found that leaving the car in Sport mode lessened the sputtering?
 
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:13 AM
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Mine is undrive-able at the moment. Thinking about it overnight I'm guessing I cracked a vacuum line when installing the new coils. It drove fine for 30 minutes after the new coils were in so that is the only thing that makes sense to me, a cracked line would get worse with the vibration of driving (I was on some rough roads yesterday) and cause these problems the computer reports as multiple cylinders. I'll check it out this afternoon and post what I find.

I would warn against driving it with a lot of misfiring as the catalytic converter in the back is either thousands of $ to have fixed or it is the worst job in the world to do yourself.
 
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Old 09-22-2020, 02:38 PM
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Poked around with propane and then starting fluid, could not find any vacuum leak. Tried Thermo's battery test using a non-contact thermometer. After 5 minutes of idle with seat heaters, blower fan, and rear defrost on the negative terminal of the battery and the battery cable read about 70 degrees F, same as the ambient temperature outside today. The positive cable was 125 F! When that cools down a bit I will take it apart and clean it and try again, hoping the problem is in the connection and not the cable itself.

Now on to cleaning the grounds. I'm confused where the coil grounds are. Behind the passenger headlight I see 2 ground connections bolted to the body. I also see another just behind that, at the power steering reservoir mount. I'm cleaning them all, just wondering if I have the right ones for the coil grounds?






 
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Old 09-22-2020, 06:22 PM
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Cleaned the heck out of the grounds and the battery terminals and battery cables and put everything back together. Re-ran the official Thermo battery cable test (seat heaters on, rear defrost on, lights on, etc for large electrical load). Hood open, measuring again with the non-contact thermometer, the positive battery connector went from 70 F to 100 F in about 1 minute. After about 1 1/2 minutes the positive connector was 115 F. Negative battery terminal & connector did not change by 1 degree so difference in temperature was 45 degrees F and rising when I shut it down.

In the picture below you can see the positive battery connection. There is what I would call a main terminal connector where it clamps around the battery terminal. There is a second connector where a secondary wire with lug is bolted on. This is maybe a 4 AWG wire that goes the the main relay/fuse box just to the right on this view. This cable is clearly the problem. Scanning with the thermometer the bolt itself where this cable is attached was the hottest thing I measured. That nut, bolt, & secondary lug heated up remarkably fast. I checked the temperature along the cable with thermometer and with my hands and am sure the source of all that heat is either at the bolted connection or in the crimp at the battery end of the cable. The other end of that copper cable is only about 24 inches away. Copper is such a great conductor of heat I expected the other cable end to be hot. It was not.


I was curious what "normal" is so I looked at my other car and my wife's car. After 5 minutes of idling at heavy electrical load the Toyota positive battery connector was 10 degrees F above the negative battery connector, but the positive connector was also next to a hot hose so that explains some of the difference. On the Audi the positive battery connector was 7 or 8 degrees F above the negative battery connector after 5 minutes.

Plan for tomorrow is to take that cable off and try and crimp/solder the end at the battery and stop it from heating up so much.



 
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Old 09-22-2020, 06:57 PM
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Dh53, I just found a post from 2011 and this man replaced the knock sensor while replacing the coils and plugs, I think if I find oil in the bottom of the coils, its says that you have to replace the lower seals and if I go that far I will then replace the knock sensor. He had the same thing with the 3000 RPM hold. I haven't had an engine rev limiter kick in yet.
 
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:05 PM
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dh53, the problem with the cables are that water gets inside the cable and it corrodes the copper inside the insulation. So, you will need to cut off that lug and then I would cut the insulation back a little bit to see where the copper stops changing color and goes back to the bright copper color. That may dictate the need to replace a cable since it will not be long enough because of what you need to cut off.

Crimping those big lugs is a PITA. Can you do it. Sure. I guess I like to cheat. I tend to take a propane torch and some solder. I will tin the cable initially and then I feed in a bunch of solder to fill the voids. Just make sure to try and keep the heat as far from the insulation as possible. I tend to also have some other heat shrink lower down on the cable so when I am done, I can slide it up and over the connector and the wire to help shield the water from entering the cable/insulation. In an ideal world, get yourself some Raychem heat shrink (WCSF-200 should do the trick, WCSF-100 may work, but may be too small too). The benefit of the Raychem is that it has a sealant on the inside. Once you heat it up and get it to the proper temp, it glues itself to the insulation and will provide a seal. If you are worried about it surviving under the hood of the car. DON'T. I use it at work to survive nuclear reactors melting down. I don't think under the hood gets that bad.
 
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:10 PM
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Thank you Thermo. I totally understand from looking at that battery cable there is no shrink wrap or other insulation that prevents water from just pooling up in there and corroding the cable over years.

I found a place online that sells 30" long, 4 AWG wires with 6mm lugs on each end for about $10 so I am inclined to go that route to replace the battery to fuse box cable. I plan to pull the wire from battery to fuse box in the morning to see what I can see regarding end connections.

Your comment about the nuke plant has my mind going. A hundred years ago I was an intern at a nuclear power plant in New England and sat next to a guy who drove an XJ12. You ever lived in Maine??

 
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Old 09-23-2020, 06:37 AM
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dh53, never lived in Maine. Been there a few times thought (Augusta area) because one of the vendors that gives schooling for what I work on is up in that area. Gotta love a machine that can have you walk through it and it can tell if you rubbed a piece of explosives in the last few hours, even if you have washed your hands. Gotta love some of the equipment that they have at a nuclear power plant. Granted, if you are up in Baltimore, I am 2 hours south of you in California. So, if you ever need help, let me know.
 
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:06 AM
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I found the ground connection for the coils in the electrical manual, picture below. Looks like it is the ground connection on the power steering reservoir mount, passenger side strut tower.



 
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:39 PM
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Updating my saga, I pulled the wire from the positive battery terminal to the fuse box and looked it over. Copper wires were highly corroded just at the end where you can see them by removing the battery cover. I cut away the heat shrink over the lug to see the other end and the copper wire coming out. Looking at that end you would have thought it was brand new. I wrapped some thin solder around that end 4 or 5 times and slowly heated the lug with a propane torch. All my solder melted and sucked into the lug. Put everything back together and ran the car for 10 minutes with headlights, seat heaters, rear defrost, blower motor, etc on. The positive terminal was around 96 degrees F while the negative terminal was around 85 F. Huge improvement over yesterday when the positive terminal was 45 degrees warmer than the negative and still heating up after 90 seconds.

I watched it for a few minutes more and it seemed to be creeping up in temperature, up to 99 F after 15 minutes. I'm convinced I have a better cable but not convinced it is 100% so I'm buying a replacement end lug. Using factory wiring location that thing is 28 inches end to end including lugs. Cutting off the cable tie at the engine side under the battery box allows me to make the same connection with 4 or 5 inches of excess wire so cutting off an inch and crimping and/or soldering a new lug on won't be a problem.
 
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Old 10-04-2020, 02:46 PM
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The soldered original cable from battery to fuse box heated up faster after a couple 5 minute test drives so I bought the $10 replacement in the link in my post above, 4 AWG cable with lugs from batterycablesusa. Total was $12 with USPS 2 day shipping, shipped same day so I had the part in hand 2 days after I ordered it. The cable itself is great but it did not bring down the temperature as much as I had hoped so I bought an OEM cable p/n C2S22082 on eBay. Installed that today and am much happier with the temperature of the battery terminal connection.

It was interesting to me that the steel stud where the cable to the fuse box connects is still 10 degrees or so warmer than anything around it. I found a discussion on a BMW forum where they have a similar battery cable design and in their case the electrical connection of the stud to the terminal corrodes. They remove the stud and replace it with regular nut & through bolt and problem solved. I'm not convinced the Jag has the same problem, I took the stud off my old cable it it looks brand new, I don't see corrosion in that connection. Also the current should not be flowing through the stud in the first place, in theory, but clearly it is because the stud is heating up.



 
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Old 10-10-2020, 05:06 AM
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just an update on my 2007 x-type, I replaced the coils and plugs and the car was fine until it got up to temperature, then the stutter would come back. I also noted that it usually happened at shift points. A friend of mine told me of a great mechanic I hadn't heard of so, I took it to him. He said the previous owner had already brought him the automobile. It needs a new timing chain. So ouch. I will get it replaced and now I realize that at 1800 rpm the timing chain would slip creating the misfires and it would really jump at 3000 rpm which created the real stumble in the motor. I had done all the little things that were suggested, changed the battery to a larger one because someone had put a smaller battery in the box. cleaned the terminals checked the temp, which was normal. I hope to have the car back in a week, crossing my fingers on the availability of parts.
Keith
2007 Jaguar x-type
 
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:06 PM
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Any joy with your issues keithet58?

With new positive battery cable I was able to drive to the grocery store and back; 15 minutes, cool down for 20 or so minutes while I am in the store, then drive 15 minutes home without a stutter/misfire and a misfire code. Baby step but I was happy as the car has limped home on any trip over 15 minutes for weeks. Feeling lucky I drove it for 30 minutes mostly on back roads with a little stop and go. No problems, finally fixed! Then next day I took it on the highway. 10 minutes to get to the highway, about 20 minutes at 65-75 MPH, then there was an accident so crawling along for 20 minutes. Got past the accident and did another 10 minutes at 60 MPH. Pulled off at my exit and the ABS light starts flashing. 2 minutes later the airbag light starts flashing. 2 minutes later...car starts misfiring again so bad I can't drive it. Even nursing it at very little throttle gets the CEL blinking. Computer reports P0303, P1313, and P1316 again, along with C something, the right rear wheel speed sensor which I replaced 3,000 miles ago. $200 in towing fees and 3 hours later I fire up the car...runs perfectly fine. No CEL, no ABS warning, no airbag warning.

I think this car has beaten me. No idea where to go from here and I have no trust in getting in the car thinking it will go more than 15 or 20 minutes. I doubt my issues are the same as keithet58 because I don't see a timing chain causing wheel speed sensor and airbag warnings. This seems like electrical gremlins.
 
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:16 PM
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I get my car back tomorrow, not going to be cheap. I will post something tomorrow after I take it for a test run.
 


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