Voltage Stabilizer
#41
#43
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#44
Import tuner tested all of them and found they added about 2 or 3 horsepower and increased torque slightly across the powerband. But in addition to that if you run a lot of electrical accessories, they are good to make sure everything gets powered. Just get one you will be glad you did. The grounding wires really help too, I swear to you. Why would I lie about that? Actually I'm not positive they would improve an S-type but my guess is they would. They really helped my X-type (the ground wires). The voltage stabilizer is not so noticable once it gets going, but I did notice my car starts up easier, and overall it just seems to idle and accelerate better and quieter. Well, right now my car has about half regular gas and half premium gas, so it's a little sluggish at times but when I put in more premium gas, it should run really well.
Last edited by 04xtype04; 11-28-2013 at 04:54 AM.
#45
The article said .5HP, not 2-3, and 1.5 foot pounds of torque on a 15 year old car with a history of check engine lights. They rated them "plausible" (isn't that the same way Mythbusters rates things). No one doubts (at least I don't) what you are saying about what you experienced when you put it one your car and I will even concede they might do as they claim they do in stabilizing the voltage. But, so what if they do? I just find it too hard to believe that a .2% gain in horsepower can make any difference in real world driving. A few degrees difference in temperature could do the same thing, a different brand of gas could do that, golf clubs in the trunk could do that. But, if you are happy that is all that matters. Enjoy!
#46
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I read the article the OP linked to that supposedly proves that these things work. Here's something of great relevance:
"But the amount by which power and torque increased-0.5 whp and 1.5 lb-ft of torque, on average-is low enough to be considered standard variance in back-to-back testing a 15-year-old car with an impressive history of check-engine lights."
"But the amount by which power and torque increased-0.5 whp and 1.5 lb-ft of torque, on average-is low enough to be considered standard variance in back-to-back testing a 15-year-old car with an impressive history of check-engine lights."
#47
#48
They are just testing horsepower and torque though, they don't mention it helps your car start up faster or that you can turn on all the accessories without losing power, or improved gas mileage. I'm not going to argue anymore about it, it was good investment. The ground wires alone made the car idle so much better. I think it makes the engine look cooler too so I can't complain. There aren't a lot of bolt-on upgrades you can do for the motors of these cars, so if you're looking for a little extra power and fuel economy, these are a good option in my opinion.
Last edited by 04xtype04; 11-28-2013 at 11:33 PM.
#49
Most people say the most noticable improvement is in audio quality, but I haven't really paid much attention to it. CD's sound good to me, thought it might sound a little better than before but not 100% sure. Just have the stock stereo (which sounds pretty good). May help more if you have amps and subwoofers and that type of thing.
I was reading about them and most people say they don't do much, but in my experience, if you get the thicker ground wires with it, those improve the engine a LOT. I have put thicker ground wires on 3 cars in the last couple years and each time it has been a dramatic improvement. The voltage stabilizer is just a little extra icing on the cake. It probably really makes a minor difference, but I am happy with it anyway and the car does idle a lot smoother now thanks to the grounding wire upgrade.
I was reading about them and most people say they don't do much, but in my experience, if you get the thicker ground wires with it, those improve the engine a LOT. I have put thicker ground wires on 3 cars in the last couple years and each time it has been a dramatic improvement. The voltage stabilizer is just a little extra icing on the cake. It probably really makes a minor difference, but I am happy with it anyway and the car does idle a lot smoother now thanks to the grounding wire upgrade.
Last edited by 04xtype04; 11-28-2013 at 11:58 PM.
#50
#51
Alfa, maybe I can help with the clarification of things. Please keep in mind that we are now talking on the scale of milli and micro-seconds. Something far faster than you will probably perceive with your eyes.
Lets first start with the purpose of what the various components are designed/meant to do:
Alternator: provide source of power to keep all electrical things in the car running and to provide a means to recharge the battery for any power that gets pulled out of it
Battery: provide an initial source of power to roll the engine, to act as a filter to minimize voltage changes in the electrical system, and to provide a source of power to maintain any electronic memory.
Capacitor: an electrical component designed to minimize changes in voltage by either absorbing or discharging electricity. Can be made to do other functions, but for this situation, this is all it does.
Now lets get into the micro second explanation of what happens with your car. When you open the door (engine is off), the only thing providing power for the car is the battery. Due to this being a chemical reaction, the voltage output of the battery is a constant thing (ie, the voltage does not bounce up and down). This voltage is normally 12.6 VDC.
When you crank the engine over and it fires, the alternator is set up to run at a higher voltage than the battery so it assumes all the load. Should the output of the alternator fall below that of the battery, due to the battery being at a higher voltage, it will take the load (keep this in mind).
Now, for how the alternator controls the system voltage. The ECU looks at the voltage being sent to it and compares it to a reference voltage (internal to the ECU for our cars). THe ECU then sends out a voltage to the alternator to raise and lower the voltage as needed to maintain it at the desired voltage. For the sake of this argument, I am not going to cover the first minute or so of the engine running as this is beyond what we are trying to talk about here. So, I am looking at just the steady state, driving down the highway, condition.
The alternator takes the voltage from the ECU and applies it to the field of the alternator. This creates a rotating magnetic field inside the alternator. This rotating field causes electricity to be generated in the outside coils of the alternator in the form of alternating current (AC voltage, stick with me here). This alternating current/voltage is bouncing between +15 and -15 volts. While still inside the alternator, this voltage is sent to a device called the rectifier. The rectifier takes the positive voltage and sends it straight through and the negative voltage it will invert to make it positive. So, the output of the alternator is "bouncing" between 0 and +15 volts in a modified sine wave (there is more to this and the electrical engineers will know this, but I don't want to make things more complicated than what they need to be and try to break it down to something that others can understand). Just keep in mind that the voltage is only changing at the alternator like this and is not being seen by the ECU (see below) and also is changing fast enough that the ECU can not keep up with the changes.
So, with the alternator trying to "bounce" between 0 and 15 volts, the battery is wired in parallel to the alternator, the two are going to start "sharing" what each one is carrying. Remember I mentioned that the component with the higher voltage will carry the load? In this case, when the alternator is above 12.6 volts (which is a majority of the time), the alternator is carrying the load of the car and also feeding some power into the battery. But, as soon as the voltage drops to below 12.6 VDC, the battery starts taking up the load and powering the car. So, in reality, the electrical system of your car "bounces" between 12.6 and 15 volts. When you connect up a multimeter, it is taking the average of this and will then indicate a reading of 13.7 to 14.4 VDC (different multimeters filter this voltage differently and will therefore give different readings).
Now, lets add a capacitor to this equation. In short, we are now going to have 3 power sources "fighting" to take the load. This is what it really turns into as you will see. The big thing to keep in mind is that the capacitor will respond faster than the battery to changes in voltage due to capacitor storing the power as a field vice in a chemical reaction. The starting of the car is essentially unaffected. That all remains pretty much the same. So, lets move on to going down the highway.
The big thing to keep in mind here is the capacitor is going to fight to keep the voltage at 1 specific value and not allow it to vary at all!!!!!!! With the engine running, the capacitor is going to do this at a voltage above what the battery is at. So, for the most part, the battery gets removed from the 3 way power fight. So, now we are just dealing with the capacitor and the alternator.
For the sake of argument, I am going to start at a predetermined time where the capacitor is charged to 13.7 volts and the alternator is at 13.7 volts too. As the alternator voltage tries to rise above 13.7 volts, the capacitor is going to suck up this extra voltage and force the voltage t othe car to stay near 13.7 volts (keep in mind that as this happens, the capacitors voltage will rise slightly but for sake of argument, it is constant in this case). As the alternator's output falls below 13.7 volts, the capacitor will now release its stored power to try and maintain the voltage at 13.7 volts (Yes, the voltage will fall slightly as the capacitor discharges). The battery only steps in if the capacitor voltage were to fall below 12.6 VDC. This is where the size (farad rating) of the capacitor comes into play as the larger capacitor will have more power storage than a smaller capacitor. Therefore, the larger capacitor will be able to maintain the voltage near one value better.
To give everyone something that they can relate to, if you remember driving in a car with a cheap radio in it, some people could hear a humm coming through the radio. That is this voltage oscillation that I have been trying to explain. It can range from a few hundred oscillations a second to tens of thousands a second.
Is there more to this. OF COURSE. I have simplified this to make it something that the average Joe can understand. If you want to know more, I will discuss it in a different area as you can get into a lot of different situations where something as simple as the placement of the capacitor can affect whether it is acting as a true power source or acting to filter more and vice versa. Also, I will admit that my explanation of how the capacitor absorbs the power is very simplistic. But, I figure most people don't want to get into how the wiring is dropping voltage due to excessive current and ........... (I can see the eyes rolling into the back of a few heads).
Lets first start with the purpose of what the various components are designed/meant to do:
Alternator: provide source of power to keep all electrical things in the car running and to provide a means to recharge the battery for any power that gets pulled out of it
Battery: provide an initial source of power to roll the engine, to act as a filter to minimize voltage changes in the electrical system, and to provide a source of power to maintain any electronic memory.
Capacitor: an electrical component designed to minimize changes in voltage by either absorbing or discharging electricity. Can be made to do other functions, but for this situation, this is all it does.
Now lets get into the micro second explanation of what happens with your car. When you open the door (engine is off), the only thing providing power for the car is the battery. Due to this being a chemical reaction, the voltage output of the battery is a constant thing (ie, the voltage does not bounce up and down). This voltage is normally 12.6 VDC.
When you crank the engine over and it fires, the alternator is set up to run at a higher voltage than the battery so it assumes all the load. Should the output of the alternator fall below that of the battery, due to the battery being at a higher voltage, it will take the load (keep this in mind).
Now, for how the alternator controls the system voltage. The ECU looks at the voltage being sent to it and compares it to a reference voltage (internal to the ECU for our cars). THe ECU then sends out a voltage to the alternator to raise and lower the voltage as needed to maintain it at the desired voltage. For the sake of this argument, I am not going to cover the first minute or so of the engine running as this is beyond what we are trying to talk about here. So, I am looking at just the steady state, driving down the highway, condition.
The alternator takes the voltage from the ECU and applies it to the field of the alternator. This creates a rotating magnetic field inside the alternator. This rotating field causes electricity to be generated in the outside coils of the alternator in the form of alternating current (AC voltage, stick with me here). This alternating current/voltage is bouncing between +15 and -15 volts. While still inside the alternator, this voltage is sent to a device called the rectifier. The rectifier takes the positive voltage and sends it straight through and the negative voltage it will invert to make it positive. So, the output of the alternator is "bouncing" between 0 and +15 volts in a modified sine wave (there is more to this and the electrical engineers will know this, but I don't want to make things more complicated than what they need to be and try to break it down to something that others can understand). Just keep in mind that the voltage is only changing at the alternator like this and is not being seen by the ECU (see below) and also is changing fast enough that the ECU can not keep up with the changes.
So, with the alternator trying to "bounce" between 0 and 15 volts, the battery is wired in parallel to the alternator, the two are going to start "sharing" what each one is carrying. Remember I mentioned that the component with the higher voltage will carry the load? In this case, when the alternator is above 12.6 volts (which is a majority of the time), the alternator is carrying the load of the car and also feeding some power into the battery. But, as soon as the voltage drops to below 12.6 VDC, the battery starts taking up the load and powering the car. So, in reality, the electrical system of your car "bounces" between 12.6 and 15 volts. When you connect up a multimeter, it is taking the average of this and will then indicate a reading of 13.7 to 14.4 VDC (different multimeters filter this voltage differently and will therefore give different readings).
Now, lets add a capacitor to this equation. In short, we are now going to have 3 power sources "fighting" to take the load. This is what it really turns into as you will see. The big thing to keep in mind is that the capacitor will respond faster than the battery to changes in voltage due to capacitor storing the power as a field vice in a chemical reaction. The starting of the car is essentially unaffected. That all remains pretty much the same. So, lets move on to going down the highway.
The big thing to keep in mind here is the capacitor is going to fight to keep the voltage at 1 specific value and not allow it to vary at all!!!!!!! With the engine running, the capacitor is going to do this at a voltage above what the battery is at. So, for the most part, the battery gets removed from the 3 way power fight. So, now we are just dealing with the capacitor and the alternator.
For the sake of argument, I am going to start at a predetermined time where the capacitor is charged to 13.7 volts and the alternator is at 13.7 volts too. As the alternator voltage tries to rise above 13.7 volts, the capacitor is going to suck up this extra voltage and force the voltage t othe car to stay near 13.7 volts (keep in mind that as this happens, the capacitors voltage will rise slightly but for sake of argument, it is constant in this case). As the alternator's output falls below 13.7 volts, the capacitor will now release its stored power to try and maintain the voltage at 13.7 volts (Yes, the voltage will fall slightly as the capacitor discharges). The battery only steps in if the capacitor voltage were to fall below 12.6 VDC. This is where the size (farad rating) of the capacitor comes into play as the larger capacitor will have more power storage than a smaller capacitor. Therefore, the larger capacitor will be able to maintain the voltage near one value better.
To give everyone something that they can relate to, if you remember driving in a car with a cheap radio in it, some people could hear a humm coming through the radio. That is this voltage oscillation that I have been trying to explain. It can range from a few hundred oscillations a second to tens of thousands a second.
Is there more to this. OF COURSE. I have simplified this to make it something that the average Joe can understand. If you want to know more, I will discuss it in a different area as you can get into a lot of different situations where something as simple as the placement of the capacitor can affect whether it is acting as a true power source or acting to filter more and vice versa. Also, I will admit that my explanation of how the capacitor absorbs the power is very simplistic. But, I figure most people don't want to get into how the wiring is dropping voltage due to excessive current and ........... (I can see the eyes rolling into the back of a few heads).
#52
I would try a voltage stabilizer, it's supposed to correct fluctuations to the battery current like you're describing. Just do some research and get a decent one, because a lot of people online sell knock-off counterfeit versions of the Pivot Mega Raizin voltage stabilizer as the real thing. I tried one and as soon as I started my car the fake Mega Raizin's circuity burned out. If you want advice as to which one you should get let me know, I found a different brand for about $40 that I haven't had any problems with and appears to be well constructed, and includes 3 addition thick ground wires to ground out your engine bay better. This is the one I got (description says for Honda, but it's universal)
Gold Efficient Car Battery Voltage Stabilizer Regulator Ground Cable Blue | eBay
Gold Efficient Car Battery Voltage Stabilizer Regulator Ground Cable Blue | eBay
Last edited by 04xtype04; 02-09-2014 at 12:06 PM.
#53
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jmunaco, I would say that you have a problem with your alternator plug. The first thing that I would recommend doing is connecting up a multimeter across your battery and seeing what the voltage is as the car is idling and then what it does as you rev the engine. What you should see is with the engine off, the multimeter will read 12.6 VDC (if less than 12.6 VDC, you have a battery that is partially depleted and that issue needs to be resolved) and if it is more than 12.6 VDC, then odds are you are overcharging the battery and you just recently turned the car off (but we are going to figure this out here hopefully).
When you start the car, you should see the voltage drop to around 11.0 VDC as you are cranking, then shoot up to around 14.4 VDC for a short period of time (15 seconds or so) and then coast down to 13.7 VDC. If the voltage remains up at 14.4 VDC or is even higher, then you have a problem with either your new alternator (not unheard of for a new alternator to fail shortly after install) or the lead that feeds the field circuit for the alternator is shorting to a 12 VDC source and this is resulting in the alternator producing too much voltage. The reason why you see the lights change brightness is that the voltage that the alternator can make is a function of the field strength and the RPM of the engine. In a properly running car, as the engine RPMs come up, the field strength drops to maintain a constant voltage. But, in your case, the field strength may be maxed out and now as you raise the RPMs, the voltage will go high.
If you want to get into the wiring more to figure out what is going on, let me know (via PM) and I will give you step by step instructions of what you will need to do. Hopefully you know a little bit about electricity to make things easier.
When you start the car, you should see the voltage drop to around 11.0 VDC as you are cranking, then shoot up to around 14.4 VDC for a short period of time (15 seconds or so) and then coast down to 13.7 VDC. If the voltage remains up at 14.4 VDC or is even higher, then you have a problem with either your new alternator (not unheard of for a new alternator to fail shortly after install) or the lead that feeds the field circuit for the alternator is shorting to a 12 VDC source and this is resulting in the alternator producing too much voltage. The reason why you see the lights change brightness is that the voltage that the alternator can make is a function of the field strength and the RPM of the engine. In a properly running car, as the engine RPMs come up, the field strength drops to maintain a constant voltage. But, in your case, the field strength may be maxed out and now as you raise the RPMs, the voltage will go high.
If you want to get into the wiring more to figure out what is going on, let me know (via PM) and I will give you step by step instructions of what you will need to do. Hopefully you know a little bit about electricity to make things easier.
#54
Thermo
Thanks Thermo. I will do as suggested. On a side note i am also experiencing driving lights flickering and the passenger driving light staying on after i turn off the car. I will pm when the site gives me permission. I am a Bmw guy that as a kid said I will have a jag one day. Not sure how smart that was!!. I had a 740 il and still have a 328 ci and a 325 ci. I do almost all the work regular garages do. Im not afraid to try anything. This winter has beeb brutal on the jag. Air shocks thermostat 2 alternators. That 750il sounds pretty good right now. But whats life without challenge.
Thanks again be back when i have time to dig in.
Thanks again be back when i have time to dig in.
#55
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jmunaco,
Thermo has given you some excellent advice. Seeing if the battery is receiving a decent charge from the alternator is the first step.
I'd suggest also posting your issue in the dedicated XJ8 section
XJ ( X350 & X358 ) XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum
as the owners of your specific model may have had a similar problem. Not much in common with your car and an X-type.
Thermo has given you some excellent advice. Seeing if the battery is receiving a decent charge from the alternator is the first step.
I'd suggest also posting your issue in the dedicated XJ8 section
XJ ( X350 & X358 ) XJ6 / XJ8 / XJR - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum
as the owners of your specific model may have had a similar problem. Not much in common with your car and an X-type.
#56
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Qetuo135, the one I saw on the website are of no use to you in your car. These are filtering household power (ie, 115 VAC or 230 VAC). Your car runs on 12 VDC. I will liken this to trying to make a Camaro haul a semi trailer. Just not the right tool for the job. Also, there is a big difference between a voltage regulator and a voltage stabilizer. A voltage stabilizer takes a varying voltage and filters it to make a constant voltage. What that output voltage is may vary based on the design of the unit. Where a voltage regulator is a control device meant to control the voltage source so the output of the voltage source is maintained at a constant voltage regardless of the load put on the voltage source. PUtting this into other words and something that more people can understand is putting a restrictor in a garden hose. This will cause the hose to have a higher pressure under a small amount water flow and as the water pressure upstream of the restrictor pulses and chugs, the pressure downstream will be pretty much constant. But, you try to pull a lot of water through the hose, the pressure you get out is going to drop significantly. Where, if you put a pressure regulator on the garden hose, it is going to maintain the pressure downstream of the regulator at one pressure, regardless of the amount of water flowing. The restrictor is the stabilizer, the regulator is the voltage regulator.
Now, getting back to a car. it will help out everyone to know what vehicle we are talking about here. This will affect how to do what you are after and how it may affect the car. Older cars, it will be very easy to install and not have a lot of affect on the car. Where, a more modern car, you can open up a can of worms that you are not going to want to play with. From what you are describing, what you are after is something more like this: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/MPEV...&gclsrc=aw.ds&.
This is going to look at the battery voltage and send a signal to the alternator to maintain that voltage at some determined value. This will involve removing/disconnecting the wire from the cars original voltage regulator over to one like what I show above. But, there is a lot more to this than just cutting a few wires and putting this in their place. This is why knowing what vehicle we are talking about is critical for this discussion.
Now, getting back to a car. it will help out everyone to know what vehicle we are talking about here. This will affect how to do what you are after and how it may affect the car. Older cars, it will be very easy to install and not have a lot of affect on the car. Where, a more modern car, you can open up a can of worms that you are not going to want to play with. From what you are describing, what you are after is something more like this: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/MPEV...&gclsrc=aw.ds&.
This is going to look at the battery voltage and send a signal to the alternator to maintain that voltage at some determined value. This will involve removing/disconnecting the wire from the cars original voltage regulator over to one like what I show above. But, there is a lot more to this than just cutting a few wires and putting this in their place. This is why knowing what vehicle we are talking about is critical for this discussion.
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