lol i should of mentioned that the battery was like 6 months old.

 

I am an electrical type of guy. I don't have a degree in electrical engineering, but I have spent 20 years working around batteries that can power small towns (yes, they are that big). So, I know a bit more than the average person.

As for a "cheapy" battery being made with lower quality stuff than a "premium" battery, that is normally a false statement. LIke I mentioned in my first post, most batteries are made on an assembly line and only a different sticker is put on the outside. There are instances where a manufacture may request a different design for their "special" battery be done which may involve heavier plates, special sizing, etc. But, in todays market, you will find that this occurs very rarely.

Please also keep in mind that you need to compare apples to apples. There are 4 different types of batteries out there to buy. Most of us only need what is called a starting battery. This is meant to be maintained at 100% charge and only used to start the engine of our cars. These tend to be made in a lighter construction than other lead acid batteries. You deeply discharge these and you will tend to damage them, if not kill them right then and there. You next have what are called deep cycle batteries. These have a heavier plate design and are meant to be run between 100% charge and 0% charge over and over and over. Using them in a vehicle where they are maintained at 100% charge actually damages this type of battery. If you think you need this type of battery, then a special (dual) battery setup is what you should run (if you want to know more about this, let me know, I help design systems with this setup all the time for trucks requiring major electrical power). Then you have the "big Bertha" of lead acid batteries which are called marine batteries. These are essentially deep cycle batteries, but with spacers put between the plates to handle the heavy vibrations encountered during boating. These tend to handle being maintained at 100% charge better than deep cycle batteries, but still not great. Finally you have the "spiral wound" batteries. These can also be referred to as dry batteries or other names. These use special flexible plates that are rolled together with a paste style electrolyte. These are normally good for high vibration environments and conditions where mounting the battery straight up and down is not possible. These also come in a starting and deep cycle configuration. My experience with these is their lives tend to be shorter than a standard lead acid battery when treated the same way. But, there are applications where they are needed.

As for how long a battery will last, like others have mentioned, how well do you take care of the battery? For most, simply keeping the battery (starting types) at 100% charge and not having to crank your car for long periods of time will ensure the maximum life of the battery. For deep cycles, they need to be fully discharged roughly (at a minimum) monthly and then recharged. Marine batteries, the more you abuse them, the longer they seem to last. The spiral wound batteries also fall into this category of life expectancy.

As for what causes a battery to fail, you normally experience 1 of 2 failures. Short life failures tend to result from plate deformation/breakage. What happens is the plates are simply slid into little slots built into the case of the battery. If a plate should happen to slip out of this groove, it will come in contact with a neighboring plate and cause that cell to become completely discharged. Once this happens, instead of the battery being at 12.6 VDC, it will fall to 10.4 VDC, which is too low of a voltage to crank over most cars (not to mention that the dead cell will limit the current output of the battery). If giving a little bit of time, the dead cell will discharge other cells, leading to a battery with even more damage.

The other way that a battery will tend to fail is through what is called mossing. When the battery is initially constructed, the plates are essentially flat. But, as the battery is maintained at 100% charge, the sulphates in the acid will cause little peaks to form and extend out from the plates (perpendicular to the plate). If these are allowed to grow, they can extend far enough that they will touch the neighboring plate. Again, this will lead to a cell discharging and becoming dead. The mossing can be cured by doing a long discharge and taking out about 25% of the charge of the battery. But, keep in mind, starting batteries do not like to be discharged. So, if you do this with a starting battery, you are playing russian roulette. It can help, but it can also hurt the battery just as quick.

On a side note, if you manage to deeply discharge a starting battery, please, please, please do not jump start the vehicle and let the alternator recharge the battery if at all possible. This is bad for 2 reasons. 1) using the alternator to recharge the battery charges it too fast and results in uneven rebuilding of the plates (when a battery discharges, one plate (positive) is dissolved and transferred to the other plate (negative). This can result in deformation of the plates and a shorter battery life. 2) letting the alternator recharge the battery tends to put a heavy load on the alternator and when at idle, you will have the alternator maxed out, leading to cooking of the field winding and/or the rectifier assembly. This will result in shortened life of your alternator. A lot of people after having a dead battery find that their alternators have died. This is why.

If you want to know any more, please let me know. Gotta love working around batteries capable of over 10,000 amps of load.

 

Thermo ,thank you as usual
I didn't know such a deep info about batteries . I will save your "treatise" on my disk . So, how about using battery conditioners , do you really think they extend battery life and give you a "cycling" power when you need it or just gimmick

How many times do you think a battery can be recharged ? We had to charge my father's ride twice this year ,it's Delphi . If we used Walmart or Varta I don't know if the results would change though

 

Cadillac, the battery conditioners are better than just letting the battery sit and continue to discharge. Granted, giving the battery a jolt every so often (say, every other week) by starting the car and letting the engine run does as good of a job if not better as this gives a higher current through the battery and tends to prevent the mossing from occurring.

As for how many times you can drain a starting battery and recover it, that is like asking what your favorite color is. Sometimes it only takes the 1 time and it is dead. Other times you can do it quite a few times. What I would tell you to do is to connect up an analog volt meter the battery in your dad's car. Now, as you are watching the meter, start the car and also pay attention to the length of time the car takes to start. What you are looking for is the meter to remain above 11.0 VDC. If it starts falling down to say 10.5 VDC (or that region), the battery is on its last legs and probably needs to be changed out in the near future (starting to build up internal resistance due to plate wear from an imbalance created during the charging). You will probably also notice that the motor will take a few more revolutions before it will catch. Another thing to watch is the instrument cluster. As goofey as this may sound, see if the gauges do something different. For example, with the newer Fords (97-07's), as you are starting the car, the gauges will remain on the low peg during a normal start. But, if the battery starts to go, the gauges will sweep to full range due to the computer being reset (due to the battery voltage dropping too low). Just and oddity that has been noted over time. Different manufacturers will have different twists to this.

As for Brand A taking more cycles than Brand B, that is again a luck of the draw. You can get 2 batteries from the same manufacturer, made on the same day, on the same assembly line and they will last completely different lives. The factory battery in my truck lasted 10 years and then I only replaced it because the truck was getting slow to start and figured before it left me stranded, it would be wise to change it out. I've seen other people where they get a brand new battery, treat it nicely and 3 months later it is dead. You never know.

 

Thanks for your tips , much appreciated . Whenever I hear some odd noises ( when I insert the key to II and wait a few secs to see lights go off ) and blinking lights I see the battery is gone or needs charge urgently .
You have a correct point in your statement even if it may sound goofy for anyone. 10 years battery life should be a record ,that's an epic one .

 

Cadillac, the "battery light" is a mis-named light. When you see the battery light, it is simply telling you that the voltage on the car has dropped enough that you are pulling current out of the battery (ie, has fallen below 12.7 VDC). The battery light should be on when you only rotate the key to the II position and don't have the engine running as the alternator is not outputting any power, therefore it has not raised the vehicle voltage up to 14.4 VDC (hence why the alternator takes all the load since in DC systems, the item that outputs power that also has the higher voltage will assume all load until its voltage is pulled down to match the next DC source which then they will start sharing any additional load relative to their power producing abilities).

If you want me to go into more detail, I will gladly do that. I may link a thing I did on one of my truck forums that is a fairly lengthy thing on vehicle wiring and a semi detailed overview of how the electrical system works for producing power.

 

I got mine at Batteries Plus. I think it was around $100. It was less than Sears. http://www.batteriesplus.com/product...-720CCA/1.aspx

 

Thanks Thermo, I would not deny it if you link for it ,thank you for your taking time and trouble . I think you can post a new thread to benefit everyone else who likes such tips .

 

Caddy, I have posted a "Thermo Knows" in the General Tech forum so that everyone on the forums can benefit from more electrical knowledge. I will be doing a thing on alternators and batteries here in a couple of days. I don't want to information overload people with this stuff. If you think there is something else that we can help people with, I will do what I can. Both the basic electricity (the first posting) and the batt/alt posting (coming soon) are based around general knowledge, not on any specific vehicle. I try not to be too specific on a single vehicle as most of this can be applied to all vehicles. But, if there is something Jag specific or X-Type specific, I'll tackle that too. Don't be afraid to bring up mechanical things too. While I am an electronics guy by trade, my work requires me to know a lot of mechanical stuff too. So, everything is fair play.

 

Thank you Thermo, it's good for us to have such a member like yourself .
Explaining the things basically makes them easier to conceive for average persons how the stuff works as well
It sure will be a good reading

 

Ok I am getting the Wally World battery tomorrow. I will let you guys know how it turns out.

 

OK, I did it. I went over to the dark side and got the Wally World Juice Box. Fits perfect, has the vent, etc. I removed the insulated wrap from the OEM battery and it installed in place on the new one, fit like a glove. All in all a painless exercise.

Not sure if you guys know about this or not, but they sell a small gizmo at WalMart near the batteries that is supposed to help you hold all of your settings when you change batteries. It is $5 and has a plug on one end that goes into the cigarette lighter and on the other end you hook up a 9 volt battery (comes with a battery in the package). It says it works with all cars and is designed to give power to the onboard computer while the battery is out. You have to turn everything else off and turn the key to the ACC position to activate the cigarette lighter plug.

So I decided to give it a try and it sort of worked. It did hold all of the radio stations, the key fob, the seat memory and a few other things. But it did not save the climate control settings or the audio settings, like the bass, treble, sub, etc. And I had to reset the clock as well. It might work better in other cars, as we all know that our Jags are “special”.

 

All that stuff has to be reset inclusing auto windows when you disconnect the battery. Regardless if you use the power saver.

 

The device only works for cars where the lighter circuit stays live with the ignition off. You can't get juice through an open circuit. So, in your case, it didn't do a thing. Everything saved was what the Jag could save for a short time. Everything you lost, is exactly what is expected to be lost. Check your other cars. If no lighters stay live with ignition off, return it, it's useless, IMHO.

 

My car still has the original battery (6 years old) and it works great and so does the alternator, although Auto zone said the alternator was bad. I installed a new negative battery cable and it fixed the battery light problem; it was building up a LOT of corrosion on the top of the battery. I've been trying to decide what kind of battery to replace this one with.

 

Jo, when it comes to batteries, it is a roll of the dice as to whether you get one that will last forever or one that will last a few months. The one in my truck lasted 10 years. I am still running on the factory battery in my 03. You be nice to the battery, it will be nice to you. But, if you are looking for a new battery, you need to ask yourself how much warrantee you are wanting. What I mean by this is if you are figuring that you are going to be getting rid of the car within 3 years, buying a $200 battery isn't worth it since the battery you buy is the same exact one that you can get for $100, with the only difference being the $200 battery has a 7 year warrantee and the $100 battery only has a 3 year warrantee. either way, the warrantee is the same for you. Now, if you plan on keeping the car for the next 10 years, then that $200 battery may be worthwhile. Me, having worked on major battery systems for years and years, I buy the cheapo batteries. But then, I do a few things to batteries that most people don't do. I feel this makes the batteries last longer.

Check out the Advanced Auto Parts on Tidewater Drive in Norfolk. That is the Advance warehouse for the region. They should have a battery that will work for you. I would tell you to go with the Advance Silver. You can go with the Advance Platinum, but the only difference is the color of the sticker on the outside of the box and the warrantee that they offer (has like 2 more years to it as I recall). But, it will cost you an extra like $50. I've had the Silver in my truck for 4 years now and I have been abusive to it and it is still strong as ever.

 

Advanced it is! Thank you! That's where I'll go when it's time.

 

So, can someone tell me about the vent tube? My car did not have the battery box cover or vent tube when I bought it. I just replaced the battery with a Walmart Everstart MAXX94R. It did not come with a vent tube, and I don't know where to look to see if there is a vent that should be connected to a tube. Is the vent for hydrogen or acid? Do I need to get a cover and vent tube? Or can I just leave the top open, the way it is on every other car I have ever owned?

 

The vent tube is not part of the cover, it runs up the side of the battery compartment, on the left as you face the car. The WalMart battery has a vent on each side and you are supposed to use one and then us the plug they provide to plug up the other side. The plug snaps off of the red cover that is on the positive terminal when you buy the battery. You should have had a vent tube connected to the OEM battery, if that is what you were replacing. If it was not OEM or if someone already replaced the battery, then maybe they did not connect the tube. See if you can find it hanging down on the left side of the battery compartment.

 

Thanks, Tarheel. I found the vent holes on the new battery, but there is no vent tube. I found a tube molded into the side of the battery box, through which I guess the vent tube would go, but no tube. The new battery did not come with a vent plug, but I found one installed in the old battery, on the wrong side. So, I guess I should get a battery cover and vent tube from the Jaguar dealer. But why does it need a cover or a vent tube, anyway? Some cars need a vent to the outside because their battery is in the trunk. But the X-Type has the battery under the hood. Is the cover sealed with a gasket? If so, that would explain the need for a vent, if the cover is used. But why do you need a cover in the first place? And why does the vent tube lead down, when hydrogen is lighter than air? I should think it would be better to lead it up, where the hydrogen could escape out the back of the hood. Does anyone understand this setup?