So many months ago I took the car in to get sway bar links fixed...bearing problems, theres a thread a while back. I had problems starting it maybe around a year ago, but rarely. Mechanic said it was the flywheel, some teeth chipped, and it would get worse and worse until she finally wouldnt start anymore. Mechanic wasnt by any means a Jag expert...mainly MB, BMW, Porsche.

She would make a high pitched noise such as the one I uploaded below: 5 seconds in, 18 seconds in. About 3-5 times, and then she would start as normal. No problems.

These last few weeks its been getting worse and worse...maybe half the time she's had issues starting, then 3/4 of the time. Now, on top of the loud noise...she wants to start...but just doesn't.

VID-20110911-00009 - YouTube

Jag x type not starting - YouTube

VID-20110911-00011 - YouTube


So is it the flywheel? Starter? Any other ideas?

If its either one, how much will that cost me in parts/labour generally?

 

Why not remove the starter and look at the teeth on both the flywheel/converter drive plat and starter itself???

bob gauff

 

I am mechanically inept. I can program your computer though!
I have no idea what to look for. I saw some videos with bad flywheels. Read an explanation on the forums here on how to remove the starter, but beyond that, I am not sure I can do much more than change my tires and redo brakes and rotors.

 

Sparty, from what you are seeing, I would venture to guess that your starter is going. What is happening is when you attempt to start the car, there is an arm that moves a toothed gear into place which allows the starter motor to engage the flywheel. That way, once the motor starts firing, the gear slides back out of the way and allows the starter motor to come to a stop. Otherwise the starter motor would turn really, really fast leading to a motor detonating (not a pretty picture). In your case, that arm has too much drag and what you are hearing is the starter motor free spinning. But, like was mentioned, pulling the starter to get a good look at the teeth is advisable. As for what to see, it is pretty obvious. The flywheel has a big string of teeth around the outside. if you see teeth missing, you have a problem. I really doubt you are missing teeth on the starter as the starter only has but a few teeth and even then, the gear moves around and it would cause the flywheel to move atleast a little bit. I also doubt that you have missing teeth on the flywheel as you would end up not being able to start the motor after a few tries. The motor would situate itself such that the teeth on the starter would be free spinning and unless you got out to the crank of the car and physically moved it to a different spot, the starter teeth would always hit the same spot on the flywheel and never move the motor.

Atleast on this car, the starter is easy to get to. It is right behind the battery. I would tell you just to be safe and to make things easier, remove the battery and battery box from the car and then go after the starter. For the starter, should only be but 2 bolts holding the starter to the block of the car and 2 wires that will need to be removed. From there, the starter will pretty much fall right out of the car. You can then take it up to an auto parts store and see if they can test the starter for you.

 

Thanks a lot, I will look at it tomorrow morning, you put me at ease. Will let you know how it looks.

 

There is a reinforcement bar that blocks the removal of the starter so you have to loosen the bolt on the trans mount to pivot the bar. The starter can be twisted and turned until it comes free.

bob gauff

 

What should be the cost to replace the flywheel? Mechanics were saying its probably a $1200+ job, removing transmission and all. Does that sound about right?

 

Sparty, unfortunately, that doesn't sound too far off. There is a lot of stuff that needs to come out of the way before you can get to the flywheel. As long as the $1200 is including the price of the flywheel, that isn't too far off. But, I would get the starter out of the way and see what the flywheel looks like. I am placing money on the starter being your issue (by the way, I am not a betting man).

 

I'm thinking that it sounds like the starter solenoid is not causing the pinion to engage with the ring gear on the flywheel. So I agree, check the starter first.
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Jaguar - it's not an automobile, it's a Motorcar

 

Have not had this problem on either on of my Jags. '07 X-type, '98 XK8 But any previous cars that made that exact same noise had a bad starter solenoid. Either the solenoid itself was bad or the starter wire was bad. Jack

 

Took to the mechanic, they said its the flywheel. Showed me some Jag time and labour thing that said engine, transmission needs to come out since its not doable otherwise. 16 hours labour, 250 for a new flywheel. Close to $2000. I think I'm going to be in tears. I love this car to death. But having paid $3300 for the car, spent that much in repairs if I do this. I don't know what to do. I dont think I'd get much of trade in value for it.

I told myself if the transmission died, I would be done. This is pretty close. Its in decent condition, I dont know what i could sell it for. But I love the car. I just ordered new rotors/brakes for it last week. I just don't want to be investing more and more money if something big is going to break.

What should I do? What would you do?

 

Sparty, I'm thinking if the flywheel has lost teeth then the starter would never turn over the engine until a good part of the flywheel is in position. The car would have to be moved while in gear to get the engine/flywheel to rotate. I think it's time for a second opinion by a different tech. I wouldn't mention any of the 1st techs ideas. Jack

 

The engine does NOT have to be removed. The early procedure in JTIS called for the Engine/Trans and subframe to be removed as a unit but a later bulletin gave an updated method. The gearbox is removed like almost all front wheel drive units by tipping the trans down to clear the frame and removing it.

This is the only way I have ever done it even though the manual descibed the Engine/Trans unit method.

Read the revised method in the attached TSB

bob gauff

 

Do you think it could be flooding found a similar probelm else where?

Hi, not sure if it is the same problem but I had similar recently.

Having checked my oil I started the car (3.2 6) which ran for about 60 seconds just fine, then my mobile rang so I turned it off went indoors and forgot about car till two days later.

My car is old but has been fully main dealer maintained all its life and usually starts so well that you hardly hear the starter motor. This time it made a hideous screech and the engine wouldnt start. It sounded so bad that I couldnt bear to run it for more than about 5 seconds and assumed that the starter motor gearbox had died.

RAC man came to tow it to garage but luckily for me he had a theory to test first.

I had mentioned the 60 second run earlier that week. He explained that the RAC have on record an advisory from Jaguar that occasionally this situation may flood the 6-cyl causing 'bore wash' and total loss of compression. Sounds scary!!!

Cure is 5-10 30 second cranking sessions with no throttle, pausing for 20 seconds in between. IF it fires you must only allow it to rev to about 1200-1500 for a few mins, even if it sounds lumpy. The bores are so raw at this point that you can damage the engine PLUS all the unburnt fuel can 'quench' your CAT and give more problems. He explained the awful noise was the normal sound of the big engine being cranked without starting, something most owners have never heard.

We followed his plan and sure enough on the fifth session it lumped into life on a few cylinders, sounding like a dodgy tractor. It was tempting to floor it but nursing the throttle just to keep it going had all up and running in about 30 seconds. He was expecting huge clouds of white smoke but luckily that didnt happen.

After 5 mins idling he gave the advice every Jag owner wants to hear 'take it for a long run, gentle at first then high speed to get the CATS really hot!

I felt a real numpty having ordered a new starter motor but over the moon with the result.

best of luck