But what would I ever want to do with TWO X Types??

You're cool and all because you bought my old springs but your post is reeeeediculous.

1) Taurus? Really? Let's put it this way, the 3.0 "Taurus" walks your 2.5 in every way possible. 227hp > 194hp. 206lb/ft > 180lb/ft. Period.

2) An auto 2.5 does 0-60 in a lousy 8.8 seconds. An auto 3.0 does it in 7.1, which is faster than even a manual 2.5 which does it in 7.9 seconds. A 3.0 manual will do it in 6.6. So... 3.0 is still > than a 2.5. Congratulations, your car is slower than a Dodge Stratus rental car (7.4sec to 60... sorry).

3) Good luck putting your 2.5 on stock suspension and not-yet-installed H&R springs around the track faster than a 3.0 on corner-balanced coilovers.

4) Believe me, I have a good concept of what a powerband is. I've never worked at a car shop before but I used to get PMs from people on the Toyota forums every week asking me to come dyno tune their cars for them. I dont pretend to know everything about everything but I've been around the block in the car scene. My first SR20 swap was in 1998 before things like "S13" and "SR20" were even a part of most people's vocabulary. As for driving on the track- I've worked as both a driving instructor at the track and on screen as a stunt driver. Have you?

5) Assuming that your driving skills are superior to someone that you've never met is lame, even if you are a good driver. Saying things like that is like saying "My d*ck is huge" before banging a girl. Even if it is true, you still look like an ***.

School is out. Buy a 3.0


/thread

 

both options are gutless compared to many cars in this genre/class. the 3.0 is the lesser of two evils though.

 

Despite the fact that you proved the 3.0 is faster (which is absolutely right), I don't like the way you're bashing the 2.5 engine. I have the 2.5, and it's good enough (for me at least).
Fine, you're faster, and have more torque. Would love to see your reaction when someone with a faster car than yours (and there are many out there) starts bashing on your pride and joy.

To each their own opinion, and you surely are entitled to yours, but be considerate, that's all I'm saying.

 

As Rush would put it what scrule did you go to? Obviously it didn't meet the no child left behind act. I'm 100 percent serious that I know that a good "race proven" driver who knows how to drive a car to its limits would have no problems driving a 2.5 manual and leaving a street driver well behind in a 3.0 manual. Granted that same driver will have little trouble putting that 3.0 even more ahead of a street driver but since you're into numbering and since I'm obviously a Jaguar novice by my post count and knowledge of the marque I'll with all respect honor your numbers as well.

1. Taurus, really, Have you driven a ford lately? I've driven maybe 100 X-types over the years (worked for the worlds largest auto auction as an account manager for a few years so, yeah, you name it from a to v I've driven it. Even got to drive a couple Vectors (sorry no Zimmers so I can't include the Z). I'd say I can tell what a Taurus engine sounds like and the 3.0 IMEO does have a harshness past 4500 that brings it back to its roots. Sure the X type is a price point car and it is tolerable in the price class but the 2.5 sounds nothing like its 2.5 Ford kin.

2. 0-60 times are for street racers which I don't do nor would I ever think of advocating. There is a reason why a Lotus 7 ran around a track faster than a Vette in a certain race 40 some years ago and it has nothing to do with 0=60 times. Both of which are incidently faster than my TVR will go to 60 but that car also will have no trouble leaving both seconds behind in a track lap. Heck I'd even think my motorcycle with a smaller displacement then my lawn mower would be very competetive with a track lap as well provided I chose the track and it will top out at 87mph with my 220lbs on it.

3. Coilovers didn't come on the X type nor do I had no illusions that an H&R spring was even a decent spring when I bought 'em. Remember, my X-type is a winter beater car. Nothing more nothing, less. In fact it has a 15 year old trailer mounted to it right now with some hooser dirt stockers sitting in there. I wouldn't shop at walmart. h&r or even kw for springs or even coilovers if i wanted to race. I'd go up the road a few miles to penske and get some proper dual adjustable springs. LOL Not saying they aren't fine for the street but again I don't street race, I commute.

4. Toys are for kids. My 4 year old is playing with one right now.

5. Never said anything about d size as I really don't care if you even have a d as girls tend to be lighter then guys and thus should be faster by weight around any track. Nor did I ever mention your car. I simply stated the reality that a well driven 2.5 will have no problems keeping up with a 3.0 around a track. If you felt that was an insult to your driving skills then you might have some insecurites in that area that I can't help you with.

My whole point is that the 2.5 can be just as satifying to drive and can be driven just as quick in the right situations as a 3.0, neither is gonna beat a new civic in 0-60 times but that isn't why one buys one to begin with now is it. You wouldn't think that a lowly grass roots challenge built Subie SVX would stand a chance against a tube framed race EP prepped 944 in an autox or hill climb with very similar drivers and similar bias plys but it can and I have quite a few pint glasses to prove it in the basement. Dismissing a 2.5 because it doesn't measure up in d size is all you, not me.LOL

Maybe I'll get those H&Rs on tomorrow but I have yet another electrical issue that popped up giving spirited drives to a few of my SVX brethern at a meet today. Seems my low beams are quite low and well non existent again. Gotta love lucas! Have a great rest of the weekent UFO!, if your bored come on over and we can play with some proper British wiring by Dorthy (that's the name of the wiring harness builder for TVR during the 80s.) I even have a picture of her performing her witchcraft on a piece of plywood from the year my car was built. It is a great dart board.

 

My own observation about the 2.5 (mine has a manual):

• It's got enough stuff to be fun, but there are faster cars out there.
• As someone already mentioned, it has little power below 2000 RPM; that combines with the AWD to kill standing starts (AWD means wheelspin is virtually impossible except in very loose gravel; no wheelspin means you bog down while the car gets from zero to the power zone in first gear).
• On the other hand, my commute often involves a right turn on red into fairly heavy, 60-MPH traffic, and my Jag always makes it happen with room to spare.
• I love the engine/exhaust sound that has been mentioned by others, but occasionally I hear some noises that worry me when I push the car hard.
• On the subject of handling, this car combines marvelous handling with a buttery-smooth ride—but you have to trust it. The feeling of the car when you throw it into a corner can be less than inspiring, but I've pushed the limits and found that the handling is breathtakingly balanced—I'd be amazed if anyone can get this car to understeer.
• Of course, an X-Type is unstoppable in the snow.
• There's nothing like the looks that you get when you're driving a car that unmistakably proclaims it's heritage like the X-Type.

 

Well, I'm happy that you're happy. You don't have to like my opinion on anything... Free speech- America, f*ck yeah! As for someone bashing my 'pride and joy'... Its a car. It gets me around. I could care less what 99% of other people care about it (that 1% I do care about consists of girls I am trying to have sex with). If someone with a 335i tells me about how much better his car is than mine... I'd be inclined to agree.

UCLA for undergrad and CSULA for grad school. You are completely missing the point of my last post. I am 100% in agreement that driver skill is huge and can definitely make up for a slower car (Mustang guys used to be really upset when I'd pass them on the straights and in turns with my Camry on the track). I'm saying that all other things being equal (ie driver skill), the 2.5 doesnt really compare in any way from a performance standpoint.

No. In fact I make it a point not to.

No, 0-60 times tell you a lot about what your daily commute is going to be like driving around town. Are you going to be bored as hell in a car that takes 8.8 seconds to get to 60 mph or are you going to be mildly enthusiastic about one that does it in 6.6? And again with this racetrack thing? Do you drive on a racetrack to get to work in the morning? Out of all the miles you've put on your X Type, how many have been on the track and how many have been on the street?

Well then my car is definitely faster than yours if its pulling a trailer around :lol:

The d*ck size comment was a metaphor. The real reality is that a well driven 2.5 will have no problems keeping up with a poorly driven 3.0 on the track. An equally good driver in a 3.0 would have no problems running away from a 2.5. Here's where those 0-60 times come in to play again...

Hey, if you're satisfied with your driving experience in the 2.5- fantastic. I merely gave my opinion in my original post, and I still stand by it. And if you want to get all technical......... The 3.0 would beat a new Civic to 60, a 2.5 wouldnt. I'm not comparing d*ck size, just stating facts.

Post up pictures!... I dont really understand what the devil you're talking about in the rest of this bit though.

-Waay faster cars out there, you got that right.
-If you're bogging down off the line in an AWD car, you're doing it wrong. This is where Ben's argument comes into play. The driver who bogs off the line in a 3.0 is going to get beat by the guy in the 2.5 who knows how to launch it properly any day.
-Our cars are squeeky, creeky, and tend to be noisy. Chalk it up to questionable build quality.
-It handles the way it does because its based on a Ford Mondeo, and that car was just peachy. I think its one of maybe 3 cars total that all three Top Gear presenters agree on liking.
-If you can't get your X Type to understeer... Then you are nowhere near the car's handling limits. The moment you try to push this thing on stock suspension you'll be understeering for days, I don't care what tires you've got on it. Keep pushing, you'll find the understeer soon enough
-It only unmistakably proclaims its' heritage to people who dont know much about it... To Jaguar purists, they think that X Type drivers are faking the funk. Hell, I even had the service manager at the dealer tell me that they dont consider the X Type to be a real Jaguar. I wanted to slap him when he handed me my Jaguar sized service bill ($1800). It is a good looking car though, you can't deny the old school Jag family looks. The X Type feels like Jags from ten years ago: good looking, quirky, an abundance of wood and leather, dodgy plastics, but overall a solid car. It just gets a bad rap because of the platform sharing and utter failure in sales.

 

If someone were to tell me that a multi million dollar super model looks better than my wife (or 99.99% of all wives), I'd be inclined to agree.
However, when they would talk about her in a demeaning way, as you did about the 2.5, that's a hole other thing.

Maybe you're not proud about your car, maybe you have better things in your garage than the X, I don't know.
But there ARE people who are proud to be driving this, and at least for me, the way you look down on our car is insulting.
Not everything comes down to performance you know. If I wanted a lightning fast car, I wouldn't of bought this. But it sure has enough grunt for me, and you must understand that in Europe, engine sizes for petrol that are bigger than 2.5 litres, are actually fairly uncommon.

I've never even seen a 3.0 here, nor another 2.5 (x-types). All 2.1 petrol, and the diesels. It's quite fair to say that with 194 bhp, I can actually outrun pretty much 90% of all cars on the road here.

You keep saying how ordinary these cars are, poor build quality, not a real jag, underpowered... Makes one wonder why you'd even bother driving one in the first place

 

Well at least you had some good weather there.


Hmm. let see my daily commute gets me up to 40mph which means I can get about 8 10500rpm shifts in the 1.8 miles I go depending on the light cycle. Fun to me is driving a vehicle closer to its limits, at least with a 3.0 I wouldn't need to make it sound like a Taurus which if you drove one you would realize that's what you got under the hood. Not a bad engine at all, just not as good as the 2.5 in the refinement catagory. Your very wrong though a new Civic Si will be just as fast as the numbers you posted.

Maybe its the 3.0 but I don't have a single squeek or rattle in mine at 103k. Wait, I do have a speaker that is developing a crack, does that count?

 

LOL, well I suppose if I wanted to buy a new clutch every 10,000 miles I could avoid that problem, but I don't.

Yeah, looks are what I was talking about.

 

i would like everyone to know, that the 2.5l x type is underpowered compared tot he 3.0l, we can all agree, now, faster cars wise. Are u sure, i don't want to start a war but, i raced a bmw z4, without the pedal to the floor, maybe the guy didn't know how to shift, we agrreed on the race, and walked all over him, same with a v6 mustang lol.

The 2.5l is a great car, if you using it for winter, do u really need the extra horsepower, this car is great at the 2.5l for winter, up here in canada, but the 3.0l im not sure about, i would rather go for less horsepower, if u looking to just use as a winter car

if ur using it for those rainy, windy summer days go for the 3.0l, instead of the 2.5.

Just my opinion....sorry for any speellling mistakes

 

The difference is that I'm talking about a CAR not your WIFE... Its an inanimate object. If you take offense because someone doesnt like the inanimate object parked in your garage, you need to grow up. Just saying......

Besides, I've stated numerous times that my opinions on the 2.5 are just that: my opinions. Everyone's entitled to their own.

As for the criticisms about the X Type, I'm telling you what the rest of the car world thinks of our cars. Obviously I am still a fan of it despite what others say, otherwise I wouldnt have one parked in my garage. The X Type was a car that I could get for less than a 3series or C class, looks better, and has more character than the others. To me, a 5 year old 3 series or C class screams "I am a college girl who had this car handed down to me from mommy when she got a newer one" or "I just graduated from college and got my first real job, now I'm going to parade around wearing penny loafers in my new(used) german mini-lux mobile."

In my book, the X Type doesnt suffer from that stigma but instead suffers the stigma of being Jaguar's biggest flop. Jag expected to sell 100,000 of these things (in a market dominated by BMW/Merc/Audi with 3 pretty damn good cars) the year they came out. They sold 50,000 of them in 03... In 2005 they sold under 11,000 X Types. BMW sold over 100,000 3 series that year. The problem isnt with the car itself. We've mentioned before that its based on a Ford Mondeo, which is a fantastic car. The problem is that Jaguar thought they could just take a Mondeo, slap some leather and wood on the inside and a Jag badge on the outside and people would come buy them in droves. Its platform sharing at its worst. So yeah, this car will forever be viewed as a total disaster/flop/failure by Jaguar.

As for me? I am well aware that I am driving around a rebadged Mondeo and a car that was a flop, but I'm totally fine with that because I'm not the shmuck that paid $45k for it brand new in 04. In my 240SX I couldn't even fart without getting pulled over by the police. In the Jag I could be driving 95mph and snorting a line of blow off a hooker's *** in the slow lane and nobody would notice. Worth every penny I spent on it to stay off the cop's radar and still get around in relative style/comfort.

I actually pulled up next to a Taurus at a light this morning. Rolled down all my windows so I could hear it. Result: my car sounds way better, and not at all alike. The Taurus, which was of similar vintage as my car, sounded like a box of sh*t being dragged around. So I dont know what all this "Taurus talk" is... Maybe my ears arent as fine tuned as yours. Lots of gunfire and rock concerts throughout my lifetime have left me with somewhat dodgy hearing (and I'm only 25, eek).

Again, if you're dumping your clutch so hard that it goes out in 10,000 miles..... You're probably doing it wrong. Still, AWD cars should always have the advantage over their 2WD counterparts off the line. Ive walked plenty of faster/more expensive cars off the line to 30-40 mph because of the AWD advantage (which is quickly lost as soon as they can get traction and take off on me).




We could go back and forth on this stuff forever. What other readers should take away from this thread is this: Buy whatever the hell makes you happy. Get out there and actually drive different cars. Make up your own damn mind and you will find that you will be much more satisfied with whatever it is you end up parking in your garage at night.

 

At 4500, I'm guessing that Taurus doesn't idle at a light at 4500 does it?

I drive a TVR, saw the Dead in 79 at the tender age of 4 and ride a 40 year old Honda... you might want to stop at the hearing aide shop on your ride home.

 

Wow I go on business travel for a week and come back to this! Hey at least this forum is alive and well.

I own a 2.5 auto, have driven many 3.0 auto's. Not a huge difference. I like the sound of my 2.5. The punch of the 3.0 is a little nicer. My Saab turbo shows tail lights to both easily.

But anyway....Benebob I caught the Dead at the Philly Spectrum last summer, first time in a few years, was nice to rip the X across the turnpike - you make it to that one? Have about 35 Gratefuls, a few Other Ones, a Further or two, and a coupla Dead's on my resume, and about 300 other concerts. I can't hear sh*t.

 

Quoted for troof!

 

Watch this video if you think an X-Type can't handle the snow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QvSymMUL4A

Cheers

 

Without Jerry there is no Dead. Saw them in 79 at the tender age of 4 and then again 3 times in Charlotte in 95. Went home from school telling all my friends that they needed to get to Pittsburgh to see 'em in June as Jerry didn't look good. No one went, he died in what August right? They don't compare to Hot Tuna electrified in volume but the loudest show I ever saw was North Miss. Allstars at a local club. I think that did me in for life.

 

Too bad they didn't make it, that was a great show at 3 Rivers Stadium. I still have the concert flyer in my office. A young band called Rusted Root opened for them on that tour.....and I've been a Root fan since, just saw them 2 weeks ago. Jerry looked terrible at that show, but they played great. It rained but the sun was shining the whole time.

Bob still sounds great, and Mickey can still bang the gong, still worth seeing them these days, even if it is sans Jerry....

Loudest show....hmm...I'd have to rank a Pantera show at the Agora theater in Cleveland as probably the loudest I"ve ever attended.

What?

 

that video of the x on the ski slope is badass.

 

I have to agree with wannesd... There is absolutely nothing wrong with the 2.5...mine is an auto and it really lifts its skirts and goes... sometimes... when I've amind to, it will outdrag many cars including a lot of merc and beemers from a standing start at traffic lights. The reason? Well its stock standard and i think its because of the slick and smooth auto change, little or no loss of acceleration during gearchanges while many are still fumbling about going thru the gates... tho I must add.. only up to the legal limit of whatever stretch of road... wouldn't want any traffic cops thinking that I'm driving recklessly either every time or exceeding statutory limits.
Some of the advantages of a drive train with a 2.5 at the opposite end to the tyres is less overall strain on components in between and a better insurance bracket.
Mike

 

Yeah I saw the root a couple times, not a bad band by any means though his tribal screams kinda get on my nerves after a bit. I've seen both Mickey and Bob with their "other" bands. Don't get me wrong, I like 'em but it just isn't the Dead w/o Jerry. Lou Reed held the loudest for me for quite some time, but by far NMA beat him a few years back.