Just replaced brakes all round on my 2001 2.5SE manual AWD X-Type saloon. I usedEBC (standard rotors) and Red Stuff (As recommended by EBC via telephone call). Everything went OK and the car has now done just over 500 (urban) miles. When I first drove the car I didn't noticed anything untoward and therefore I may be chasinga'Red Herring' in suspecting that my new brakes arethe root cause ofa newly acquired Rubbing Noise (RN). Thiscertainly seems to be rotaryin naturewith a consistant beat (similar to what you'd expect if there was a slight warp in one of the rotors - xxxx (1 wheel cycle) xxxx (1 wheel cycle) xxxx (and so on!).. I've even placed a mark on one of the wheels (rims) and discovered the noise occurs as the mark reaches the same point ever time. Therefore you'd no doubt suspect something brake related but thats what I originally thought and now I'm not so sure as I can't decide where the RN originates from...(I'd like togo into a little more detail)...If you're easily bored - quit now!

1. From a cold start there is noRN
2. TheRN appears as soon as the foot brake is applied and once this appears, is more noticeable when turning left.
3. Once theRN has occurred, it will continue,even if the engine is switched off and the car is pushed at a walking pace
4. Even when walking alongside the car as it travels slowly forwards (with wife in passenger seat / keepingthe steering in a straight line), I can't decideexactly where theRN is coming from. Sometimes the RNdoes not commenceuntil I hop back into the drivers seat!
5. If the car is driven (from cold) even foras much as a couple ofmiles,controlling roadspeedby usingthe hand-brake only, the RNdoes not occur evenifa left turn is negotiated).

I have taken each brake assembly apart again to ensure that everything is spotless. I have reassembled maintainingthe original position of eachcomponent (Rotors / Pads) There was no sign of uneven wear and all pistons / calipers seem to be working freely. To test for pad binding, I have taken the car for a short drive 1/2mile without cause to use the brakes and upon stopping, each rotor has been stone cold to the touch.

I considered purchasing another EBC front rotor to see if I could identify a possible warp by a process of elimination but decided against this due to cost and the fact that I cannot associate the RN with a specific wheel (rim). (I wish I'd kept the old stuff now instead of being to hasty in taking it all to the refuge tip.)

So guys, thanks for listening to me... I don't know whether any of you will come from a completely different angle - perhaps something totally unrelated to the brakes or do you think the symptoms are likely to be attributed to a faulty brake component?

I'm wondering whether (by shear coincidence) something else may be causing the RN (one of the 4 drive shafts, propshaft, something within the transmissionor similar??)

Thanks in advance - a real x-type brain teaser!

 

The first thing that cameto mind was the cleanliness behind the disc but you say you made sure it was clleaned.Next thing I would do is try swapping the 2 front discs over so the one that you think is rubbing on one side is put on the other side and the one that isnt rubbing is put on the side where the noise is coming from and take it from there to see if that narrows it down. Never had these problems with mine. You could also try emailing EBC where you got the discs as their helpline is quite good and they do reply.

 

Seems like a sound plan to try and eliminate the rotors as the source of the rubbing from Buck there Kenzed.
I got my rotors (plain) and Redstuff pads fitted and have had no issues to complain of.....I do have a little brake squeal here n there but I can live with it for the stopping power I now have......pretty good trade off really.
Sorry I can't be any more help

Good luck and plz keep us informed

Jim

 

Guys,

Thanks for your ideas - with all 4 brake assembliesnow re-checked, cleaned and replaced again - I have somedoubts as to whether this sound is coming from the brakes. The car goes in to the dealers this Thursday (leaking water pump / front crank seal leaking) and it might be worth me asking if they have any idea what could be causing this rubbing sound too?

In the meantime, can you hazard a guess as towhat else could be the source of the problem?

Until Thursday, the quiz continues but I will, of course,let you know what they come with!

Regards,

Kenzed

 

Kenzed, failing all esle we can only hope that Jaguar finds the answer to the quiz
Good luck and keep us posted

Jim

 

Well, the cars back from the dealers...

Now waiting to see if oil leak is truely fixed by the replacement of the front crank seal. (fingers crossed)

Water pump replaced (coolant - £28) - all appears fine.

Brakes still rubbing a bit but not as frequent as before...Dealer reckons EBC pads are NOT exactly the same pattern as genuine parts and hence sometimes don't move as freely within the caliper. They DO like EBC's Red-Stuff and say it's a small trade-off for BETTER pads. Overall, perhaps something you just have to live with! (They did try addingcopper-slip to the back of each pad and a little extra to the parts I'd already coated - this was done without charge).The EBC standard brake rotorsthat I fitted all appear fine. (e.g no warping etc)

Total bill £448.00

Thanks for your suggestions guys...

Kenzed

 

Kenz...front crank seal leaking? I did an oil change wednesday and noticed that everything where the oil pan connects to the bottom of the engine is wet with oil...is this what happened to you? Nothing else has any oil on it but this...good luck with your problems also...

 

Yeah....exactly the same...

Try cleaning off withan aerosol type brake cleaner when theoil pan is warm and then monitor to see if you can see where the oil is coming from. Bear in mind oil can sonetimes escape from the drain plug which should be replaced every time the oil is changed.
Out of interest - Is yours manual/auto and how many miles has your car done now?

 

SO, nearly 750 (urban) miles since fitting new EBC redstuff / standard rotors all round and the rubbing noise still persists although better since the dealer added extra copperslip to the rear of the front pads. They also commented that EBC pads are a slightly different pattern to genuine parts, sometimes causing them to stick in the callipers and accounting for the kind of sound I've described. They say they really like EBC and this may been seen as a small price to pay for improved braking...

I'm not pleased with the above explanation and have sent an email to EBC to get their response.

I am thinking of asking EBC to consider a full refund / compensation for wasted time etc should the fitting of genuine parts completely fix the problem.

I'll keep you updated but in the meantime what do you guys think??

 

EBC supply Jaguar with Greenstuff pads for their dealerships.
When you buy pads from a dealer or get a dealer over here in the UK to supply and fit pads they now use EBC Greenstuff on the X type at least.

 

Buck is right..........greenstuff is what the ( OEM ) Jaguar now fit as standard. Redtsuff are the next step upso its ALL good

Jim

 

Jim didn't you do the same thing as ken? Yours aren't making noises are they?

My car has 68k on it now that I just put about a thousand miles on it...I looked again and there is no oil under there I'll have to jack her up and check her out...my car btw is automatic...

 

EBC Update:
Todays email asks if a Dial Gauge was used to check for rotor 'run out'.

Ummm, I had read about using this gauge but for a number of reasons didn't use one...

a) didn't have one and couldn't see any point in purchasing one because (b)
b) thought the wheels (AWD) couldn't be rotated independently unless all four elevated simultaneously and didn't have the equipment to do this.
c) have never needed to use gauges in the past when replacing with genuine parts!

I have removed the front rotors and repositioned them 1/4 rotation but no improvement.

Saga continues....

 

It sounds like one of your rotors has an uneven surface, and EBC is right on track with suggesting that you measure them with a dial... Without buying the gauge though, you can still trouble shoot which rotor is bad.

Make another mark on the tire/rim like you did previously and note where that mark is in relation to the car when the rubbing noise happens. Then, take off the tire of one wheel only and rotate the rotor half way. Replace the wheel and check again the relation of the mark you made to the car when the noise happens. If the rotor that you rotated is the culprit, the mark should be on the other side of the wheel (as opposed to where it was before you rotated the rotor) when the sound happens. If there is no change, then do the same thing to the other side.

From what you described by not having the sound when using the e-brake, your problem is with one of the two front tires - as the e-brake uses the rear brakes only. If rotating the rotors doesn't change the relation of the mark when the sound happens, the rotors are not your problem. In that case, I would check the possibility of a sticking caliper - although that would produce more of a constant rubbing sound than a rotational one. I would say that the pads are most likely not your problem.

If this doesn't work, please post back here and I'll see if I can pick my brain a little more to find out what is happening... I'm pretty creative, so I'm sure we can figure it out!

Good luck!

 

Not quite sure what you mean Aquill mate?
I replaced pads with Redstuff as well as EBC plain rotors and notice a much siperior braking performance.
There does seem to be a little brake squeel at low speeds though, but nothing too much too worry about, and its still a great trade off I'd say

Jim

 

oil leaks usually come from crank seal and mostly oil pan gaskets.

 

Are those bad or hard to change? I have a good mechanic that weve gone to forever but I don't know I'd trust him with the jag...more of a older car mechanic...

Jim I was asking you if you changed the same stuff out as ken did with the same stuff....meaning you did that to your and yours isn't making noises....right? Get what I'm saying?

Hey sbx I think too that he didn't have the stuff to jack the whole car off the ground to be able to turn the wheels...i.e. the car is awd and he'd have to jack the whole thing up to spin any one of the wheels to check this...In this case get some friends jack stands or bottle jacks there kenzed...

 

Further EBC Update - 25/10/07

Must say I'm impressed they are sticking with this one and not just fobbing me off. The EBC guy has replied further today saying he is rather mystified. He has responded to Stratstone (Jaguar Dealer) comment that EBC pads have a slightly different pattern to genuine pads which may be causing them to stick occasionally in the calliper. Note: this 'rubbing sound' is intermitant but is generally invoked by using the footbrake and more prevalent when making a left turn.The dealer says Stratstone may be getting confused with similarproblems encountered by 'S' Type owners that was in fact down to their (EBC) pads being the wrong shape! They (EBC) reckon this has since been rectified. I will sayEBC made a valid point asking why their is not more evidence of similar problems if in fact this is down to pad design given that a considerable number of X-Type owners migrate to EBC pads.This is something that I had also consideredsince I do not recall reading similar stories across this forum. I think there has been some very good advice offered within this thread (and I thank you all for your suggestions / encouragment). I have had a brain-wave...to purchase a really cheap set of pads (£15) to simply see if once fitted the problem persists. If successful, this would enable me to pursue further negotiations with EBC. Firstly, I might try the 'rotor' tests outlined in a previous reply, this being a cost free optionbut I must confess I'm getting a little fed up jacking the car up, removing the wheels etc etc to end up with further disapointment.
BFN, KenZed

 

Hope everything gets fixed up like you'd like it there...without too many more times of jacking it up! Make sure you let us know what the deally is...

 

Good man kenzed for stickin with it.....hope it gets sorted real soon. Cant wait to find out what the problem is??
Nice to see EBC sticking behind their products

Jim