When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Does anyone know where the key modules are and how to replace?
Short story i bought 17 xe at auction came with no keys, looking to swap out key modules with another 17 xe that I have. Just to see if this new auction car will run
my question is this possible to swap computers so a different key system will work?
Anyone have any experience with this? I don't have any computer programming equipment like a dealer would.
It's been a while since I looked into this so excuse me if not 100% accurate. Working from memory.
You cannot replace keys on their own. If you wish to add a key to the vehicle you must replace the KVM - stands for something like Key Vehicle Module, an electronic box located on the car itself. New keys can only be installed onto a brand new KVM so the official literature states. This is to prevent theft.
Luckily I managed to get a second key added under warranty. I had already bought the key, so they replaced the KVM and added the key for approx £78 labour only (I had already bought the new key fob independently approx £90 comes without physical key component as they're sold separately). Although they did try to wriggle out of this and attempt to charge me £380 just for the KVM. Worth having the conversation with your local dealer to see if you can get it done under warranty.
If you wish to do it yourself you need to sign up to topix with a subscription, pay additionally for a diagnostic subscription, and then complete the security vetting process and no doubt pay for that too. This is very expensive.
I own the official Jag diagnostic equipment and attempted to do this myself. The software itself informs you of the requirement to replace the KVM and will not allow you to proceed with key programming.
Maybe third parties offer the service? Or perhaps there are alternative means of doing it. I'm not 100% convinced that they do replace the KVM. As I think they would have charged more than £78 to do that even if it was warranty work. But that's the official story, and as per the info on Topix.
If it's no longer warrantable work I think you could be looking at a bill of £600-£900 for 2 sets of keys programmed and cut for the vehicle.
Last edited by j.a.mcguire; 01-18-2020 at 05:11 AM.
Do you know if I pull a KVM from a known working jag xe 2017 and place into this vehical will it start the car? If so do you happen to know where the KVM's are located.
This is my situation, I bought 3 jag xe's 1 was hit in the front, 2nd was hit in the rear, now this 3rd was in a flood. My idea is to use the flood car for parts and fix the other two. However I would like to see if the flood vehical will start and if the motor is any good. I hook power to the car and everything lights up, seat move forward and back, trunk pops open. dash lights up and say it only has 9,665 miles. So I would like to hear the motor run that way I can sell the motor (v6 supercharged). However in order to do so I need a key. I hate to two the car down to the dealer and spend $300 plus dollars just to see if they can program two keys. I can buy two new oem keys on ebay for around $250. But again hate to put out all the cash just to never use the keys.
Thats why I am hoping to pull a KVM from my other car and place into this Flood car to see if it will start.
Any and all comments are much appreciated.
Thank you so much
Goat
Reading the literature it's not clear that a KVM swap will work. Basically it appears as though a KVM swap should allow you to use the keys from the accompanying vehicle to unlock the car, the documentation states that the RF module is reponsible for receiving the signal from the key, the RF module relays the signal to the KVM, which checks to ensure the signal is valid. Suggesting that this checking mechanism is done internally to the KVM. If the signal is valid the KVM signals the BCM/GWM the instruction to unlock. The BCM/GWM will then signal the door modules to unlock and the BCM/GWM flash the hazard warning lights once.
The documentation then goes on to say that for operation of the car, i.e. enabling the vehicle ignition. Upon entry, there are Low-frequency antennas inside the cabin which signal the key fob, the key-fob responds, sends its response via RF to the RF module, which relays the response to the KVM. The KVM validates the response from the key-fob and signals the BCM/GWM. Crucially, it states that the BCM/GWM then performs a calculation against the signal received from the KVM to confirm the validity of the signal. Which suggests to me that the BCM/GWM probably needs to be programmed to have knowledge of the identity of the particular KVM in use. The BCM/GWM then signals the IC which enables the ignition. Otherwise you will see "Smart key not recognised..."
For a '17 XE, X760 the location is described in two separate areas of the documentation:
* KVM is located behind the rear seats, above the rear-right wheel-arch.
* The KVM is installed at the base of the right C-pillar, behind the side-trim.
There isn't an image to confirm exactly where (on this particular document), but it sounds like they're describing roughly the same location, and I don't image they make it too hard to access if they really are needing to swap them every time someone needs a key added to their vehicle.
Might as well give it a try, 50/50 chance of working -- let us know if it works?
Thanks McGuire! I'll keep you posted on the outcome. I'll definitely give it a shot, See if swapping box's work. Be back within a week for the outcome. Fingers crossed
Ok so I was to excited to find out. Turns out the box is behind the right rear seat piller. However turns out the box for a 4 cylinder motor and 6 cylinder are different. The 6 has three plugs the 4 only two. Needless to say was not able to try.
Min a different note the more I look over the flood car seems the water lever was much higher then first thought. Seems the insurance company really really cleaned this car dramatically to the point seats were removed air vents under the seats. Under the battery in the trunk. But I've been finding small traces in places like on the side of the seat under plastic covers where a small corner was missed.
There for I feel this car will be a goner with many electrics fried. There for going back to plane A using it as a parts vehicle.
With all that said I still feel the motor is good and will run. Just need to figure out how to test fire it. Before I attempt to sell. After all it's a v6 supercharged with 9,600 miles.
Ok surprised to hear that as I have the 4 cylinder and all of the documentation makes reference to a 3 plugged KVM. I wouldn't have thought the engine type would have any bearing on the security system as they're independent of each other.
I think what's more likely is that by mid-2017 the company switched from the old CANBUS architecture to a new DoIP communications network inside the car, so that would have required redesign of the modules as they're completely different communications standards and would probably explain the differences you're seeing. And if that's the case you might find it difficult to donor the electronics between them, I'd check your third vehicle to see how many connectors it has on its KVM.
The modules are weather sealed, as are the connectors, I'd say theres a fair chance they would still be operable.
I did check the third vehicle which is a 2018 at the same time. (Also 4 cylinder). Same 2 plug. Figures they would change designs mid year and I have one of each style. As you were I was surprised myself never thought there would be a difference.
I did find a guy on eBay that if I send in my kvm he can program one key (so he claims) for $326 thinking I will take the gamble. I'll update and let you know the results when that happens.
Always much appreciated and enjoy all your knowledge!
Looks like it's possible to desolder two of the pins from the microcontroller inside the KVM module and hook up a serial connection. The MCU itself has the security feature built in, this prevents unauthorised access to the memory, for read or write, so you would not be able to add your keys. The security is enabled through a special memory address space which they're able to erase using the programmer, which disables the security. Once the security is disabled you reinstall the KVM and can add keys as normal. Bit of a pointless security implementation if you ask me! The documentation for the Freescale MCU confirms it in secton 9.1.5: https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-she...XEP100RMV1.pdf
I emailed one of the key programming companies asking about this, and they responded telling me that in "90%" of the cases the MCU isn't secured, so you can actually add keys off the bat, but think they're probably just saying that to encourage a sale. My car was < 6 months old when I encountered the issue, so I imagine it's probably more like 90% of them are secured now.
Last edited by j.a.mcguire; 01-21-2020 at 08:02 AM.
Seems the insurance company really really cleaned this car dramatically to the point seats were removed air vents under the seats.
Unfortunately, this does happen. I would never buy already-cleaned car that marked flooded. This could only mean sellers are hiding something.
Originally Posted by Billy Goat
Just need a way to test fire to be sure after all is a v6 supercharged with less the 10k miles.
Please do not test fire the engine until you confirmed it will not do additional damage. In a flooded car, water can partially make it inside the engine and cranking it can make things worse. You need to be 100% sure that there is no water in oil, cylinders, heads or supercharger before firing it up. Ideally, dissemble it all. If that is too much work, drain the oil and look at it, take spark plugs out and squirt ATF into each cylinder, and look inside air intake to make sure there is no water or dirt inside it.
It is likely that if the engine was fully submerged for some time, there is water in oil and SC, but heads and short block are probably fine. That is unless you try to start it and hydro-lock it.
I was able to pull out my KVM and mail it out to a place in the bronx NYC he was able to program a single to to my kvm and believe it or not it worked! granted the key he gave me says range rover on it, lol but what do i care it works! plus it was a great price one key with shipping $330 us. and the car never left my drive way.
Now that I have a key for the car I was able to test out some systems, everything seems to work, with the exception the car does not turn over. sadly. I did some digging and found the slow blow fuse in the trunk was blown 450 amp. replaced that yet still did not turn over. Pulled the starter and tested. Starter works just like it should. Now I am not sure what to try next? Thinking to put the starter back in, pull all the spark plugs and jump out the starter see if i can get the engine to turn over. hmmmm
Here is what I have found so far all the seats, windows, sunroof, wipers,radio, lights, blinkers, auto trunk, locks, auto adjust steering wheel, fuel pump, All work just like they should. Just nothing happens when I push the button to start. All I get is a small click then nothing. Also the start button red light seems to dim in and out at times
one other questions does anyone recommend a good inexpensive scan tool. would like to hook up a simple scan tool see what errors codes come up. Not sure what would be good for a jag.
Any and all incite and feed back would be much appreciated.
In his last post, he mentions syncing the KVM and BCM using SDD (Symptom Driven Diagnostics). Which is the JLR software for CAN Bus vehicles. Since you have DoIP you would probably need to use Pathfinder to do the equivalent action. Assuming that's what's causing the issue. If you reference my earlier post above, the documentation suggests this is likely. But I'm afraid I don't know for certain. Are you sure you got the same KVM back?
You would also need to use a DoIP compatible diagnostic reader (assuming your car is actually DoIP). I found some on Aliexpress about a year ago I don't think they should be too hard to find. I ended up purchasing the official equipment.
Last edited by j.a.mcguire; 02-04-2020 at 04:27 PM.
yes I’m sure I receive the same kvm back, as I’m confident it does work, when programming he mentioned he saw two others keys programmed into the kvm so he added a third also the key fob does unlock the door, locks, pops trunk, as well as activate the start mechanisms things like hearing the fuel pump kick on when trying to start.
with all that being said, I have found the motor is shot, the reason it won’t start is the motor is seized up and won’t turn over. I found this out by removing the starter, when the starter was on the ground I jumped it out with a battery and remote starter switch. That confirmed the starter did in fact work as it should, next I bolted the starter back into the car leaving the car wires off, hooked up the remote starter switch and battery with jumper cables direct to the starter. Once that was set I removed all the spark plugs to give the engine a easy turn over. Hit the switch! Nothing. Clicking. Ends up the motor is seized up.
Guess I should of tried that before spending the money on getting a key made.
in the end I did buy this car originally as a parts car, just got excited to see it was a supercharged v6 with all the bells and whistles things like the rear window sun screen pop up and heated rear seats as well as electronic steering wheel adjustment.
now that I know I won’t feel bad tearing this car parts utilizing every part I need to complete my other two jag. Xe’s not that they are as equipped with all these extras and only 4 cylinders, although one is awd the other just rear.
All and all I’m sure I will be ahead of the game, I even bet someone will even want to buy this seized up v6 motor. I’m sure there is value there to the right person
Thanks you all for the response and much needed help, if you have any questions or pictures of different parts on a XE as I start taking things apart feel free to reach out.
In his last post, he mentions syncing the KVM and BCM using SDD (Symptom Driven Diagnostics). Which is the JLR software for CAN Bus vehicles. Since you have DoIP you would probably need to use Pathfinder to do the equivalent action. Assuming that's what's causing the issue. If you reference my earlier post above, the documentation suggests this is likely. But I'm afraid I don't know for certain. Are you sure you got the same KVM back?
You would also need to use a DoIP compatible diagnostic reader (assuming your car is actually DoIP). I found some on Aliexpress about a year ago I don't think they should be too hard to find. I ended up purchasing the official equipment.
Ok scratch my last post. I am able to get the motor to turn over and crank under its own power. I was all ready to throw in the towel. Then I talked to my brother and that got me thinking. As a result I was able to get the motor to crank with the remote start with the spark plugs being out. Then I reconnected the starter in the car. When I said to my self this will be the true test see if this is really the right key. Sure enough it cranked over like a dream. It spit and spudders but did not start. Couple things I had to fix a fuel line that popped apart on the driver side rear right in front of the rear tire. Looks as if someone must of disconnected the fitting and broke it. being the fuel line popped off and half the fitting was gone. Then I put a fresh 5 gallons of premium fuel in the car gauge says half tank. Also bought some starting fluid. Just for that extra kick.
I cranked the car again, same thing spit and spudders as if its trying to start but no go. I sprayed some starting fluid into the air intake manifold. Made no difference with or without the starting fluid.
Thinking its something electronic? Any suggestions most welcome
I added two pictures showing the remote start hooked up, However the pictures did not and do no show the best. None the less i love pictures and enjoy sharing with you all.
Good news on getting it cranking, wish I had a V6 to play with myself. Unfortunately all my documentation covers the diesel engine only. Until you get a diagnostic reader it's back to basics.
Check for a spark by removing a plug and earthing it against the engine block.
Check the condition and impedance of the crank position sensor.
Do a compression test incase the previous owner has bent valves while cranking a flooded engine, just look for a pressure differential between the cylinders. Its possible that the piston arms could be bent (see the mention of hydraulicing the engine by the other poster) but unlikely given that it's cranking at all. I'd probably test the oil in the sump before going any further if theres evidence of mayonnaise style white-oil then you need to drain the sump and replace the oil to avoid hydro-lock. Just put cheap stuff in until you get it running. Of course the white stuff floats on the top if the engine has sat for a while so you cant really be sure unless you drain the whole thing.
Depending on the type of connecting-pipe you can probably remove and orient an injector outside of the engine so you can see if you have a fuel delivery issue. Typically petrol engines are less sensitive to fuel line issues as they dont rely on high pressures. I have in the past used a windscreen washer pump temporarily to prime the fuel lines and pressurise them to remove doubt.
Check the timing.
When you're working on flooded engines its usually best to turn them over by hand, to free them up but also feel for resistance to avoid damaging the valves. Usually you can put a socket on the nut of the crank shaft pulley to do this. If it's an auto box youd need to make sure the transmission is in neutral by pulling the release cable for the parking pawl.
Good luck hope you get it working.
Last edited by j.a.mcguire; 02-06-2020 at 11:55 AM.
Thank you for all the help, I am happy to say I GOT IT RUNNING!. I also was able to drive it around the block. Wish I could post some videos here.
over night I was thinking about it as well as ordered a scan tool. Today I thought I wonder if being I have the air intake hose off. If that will make a difference. Not that any electronics are attached to the hose. However there are some before the hose on the two air filter box’s. The reason I had that off yesterday was due to spraying starting fluid directly into the intake.
this is my theory, not sure the hose had much to do with it, but once I tried it sounded like it really wanted to run. I mean it was close. I tried twice let it sit, tried two more let it sit. 6th time I pumped the throttle and boom! It was running and smoking like a mother f’er. Lol. I’m sure from having a quart and half of atf fluid poured down each cylinder. Although most if not all got sprayed out after I was able to crank it over. However before I installed the spark plugs I sprayed a bunch of wd40 and engine fogger in each cylinder yesterday.
my guess is between all the oil and starting fluid the engine was flooded with fuel and needed to sit. That’s way it started today.
I turn the car off and it fires right back up, it Idols, revs up, and still smokes. I’m sure it will take time to burn off all the oil.
do you or anyone know what type of atf fluid goes in the transmission? Also the rear dif?, as well as what type of radiator fluid, the rad fluid now look orange type? I want to change them all.
Now, you have to think long-term. If you are keeping this car, your next concern is changing all fluids and filters. It is surprising where water can end up in. This means you have to change every, and I mean every, fluid and filter. Don't forget differential and supercharger fluids.
After that next step is rust mitigation. Flood cars rust in a hurry unless you do the work to prevent this. This means taking seats and all interior carpets out and cleaning what is under the carpets (don't forget the trunk). This also means getting the car sprayed with dripping oil-based rust protection.
haha, that's kicking out some steam! Congrats on getting it going. Those white trails on the ground are interesting.
Antifreeze is: Texaco Extended Life Coolant (XLC) or any glycol based anti-freeze containing no methanol with only Organic Acid Technology (OAT) corrosion inhibitors.
Basically use an off the shelf OAT antifreeze and you should be fine. The brand I use is sold by a company called Halfords in the UK but is actually made by Comma. The 2.0L engine is 5.5Litres of coolant with 11.2 max capacity. I would expect the V6 could be bigger.
If you're draining and refilling the full system, Jaguar use a special tool kit HU 919, its a vacuum pump that draws vacuum at -0.8 bar from the coolant reservoir filler. It simultaneously draws coolant from the new bottle and dumps it into the system while drawing vacuum from the system, otherwise as I found you may struggle to get the full quantity required back in, even though the system has the usual bleed ports which on the 2.0L are located on the front left side of the radiator pack. Just to add to the fun, you can only operate the vacuum pump by means of an external air compressor. Probably taking the car for a few runs to circulate the fluid will have the same effect.
Trans oil for the ZF 8HP45 / ZF 8HP70 auto is called: ZF Lifeguard 8, ZF code number S671 090 312 which is apparently manufactured by Shell under code L12108. It takes 8.5L to fill the trans models mentioned. The sump is plastic with an integrated filter which is supposed to be replaced when renewing the oil and is also expensive, circa £200. The last two digits of the 8HP45 code are associated to the power input into the trans, bigger the engine the bigger model of trans you will have. The majority of the 8HP trans take the same spec oil but confirm your trans oil here, once you have identified what model of trans comes with the V6: https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...e-ml-11-en.pdf
The trans oil is green in colour. Its very expensive, I paid £169 for 10L. Motul make an alternative oil at the same spec but there wasnt much of a price difference so i went for the genuine product. Your transmission is likely to be larger for a V6. The process to refill is arduous. You need to follow a procedure, its time consuming and quite frankly what I found is it doesnt work as documented. They also don't document the fact that there's a thermostatic valve connecting the trans to a cooling radiator. The valve only opens at a certain temperature and allows an additional (from memory) 1.5 - 2.5L of trans oil to circulate through the cooling system.
In short, its really not worth doing this unless you really have to. Since the system is sealed and the breather is right at the top of the engine with a u-bend, i wouldn't bother doing it.
The easiest way I found to refill it was to forget using the trans filler port and the published method. Unbolt the trans breather pipe (small aperture solid metal pipe) from the back of the engine, bend it upover, tape a pipe and funnel to it, and use the breather to fill the trans to the full amount, then when you run the car the cooling valve will open at some point and start circulating the oil. This method took me about 2 hours to get all 8.5L in due to the viscosity of the oil and the aperture of the pipe.
P.S. The oil is noxious, really nausea inducing, i guess they've done this on purpose to stop kids drinking the toxic green gloup.
Not sure about the diff i'm afraid.
Good luck!
Last edited by j.a.mcguire; 02-07-2020 at 07:00 PM.
01-18-2020, 12:17 AM
2017 jag xe key modules? How to replace?
