35T AWD Dyno Baseline
#22
#23
Can someone explain this to an ignorant person like myself ? wouldn't it be bad for the engine if it allowed the RPMs to go higher then it's supposed to?
#24
Joe: Just like my XFR was this tune behaves the same way. The power comes on very linear and not violent like most other FI cars. When driving normal or with my old lady riding shot gun I do not notice any differences at all. But when I am in Dynamic mode and go over a specific throttle % you can really feel the car pull hard and is a huge improvement. I honestly feel this is how the car should have been marketed by JLR as it now feels very much alive. Knowing that JLR now has a 400hp F-Type V6 I think this tune is the same as that but with a sprinkle more power on top. I now have about 100 miles on it and I can't keep my foot of the gas. I bet adding the lower pulley would make this car perfect!
I know that the XE-R Sport is R inspired and not a true R but I do think JLR should have marketed this V6 35 T car as follows:
Base 35T = 340hp
R-Sport 35T= 380hp
S 35T = 400hp
VAP Tune = 424hp
VAP tune w/ crank pulley = 460
BTW, all pulls were made in 4th gear due to the stock tune being limited at 120MPH
I know that the XE-R Sport is R inspired and not a true R but I do think JLR should have marketed this V6 35 T car as follows:
Base 35T = 340hp
R-Sport 35T= 380hp
S 35T = 400hp
VAP Tune = 424hp
VAP tune w/ crank pulley = 460
BTW, all pulls were made in 4th gear due to the stock tune being limited at 120MPH
VelocityAP ECU tune coming to me via DHL. Should be installed next week.
#25
The rpm bump is beneficial to ppl that might weekend track the car, if you were on a circuit track and always ran out of rpm in say 3rd, a few feet before the area you would normal start braking into a particular corner. This 200rpm bump would allow you to stay in that 3rd gear for a few seconds longer, and not require to upshift at the time your almost about to start braking for that particular corner.
I've yet to run an XE on the strip but it would be the same idea when approaching the end of the 1/4 mile. If you always had to shift a few feet from the end of the run. You could now keep the selected gear and use the 200rpm bump(providing the 200rpm bump helps and that your still not bouncing off of it, otherwise it wouldn't be helpful)
__________________
________________
Christopher Edgett
Technical Director
Velocity Automotive Performance Limited
214 Maple Ave.
Oliver, BC
Canada V0H 1T9
Office Tel: (250) 485-5126
www.VelocityAP.com
Tuning@VelocityAP.com
________________
Christopher Edgett
Technical Director
Velocity Automotive Performance Limited
214 Maple Ave.
Oliver, BC
Canada V0H 1T9
Office Tel: (250) 485-5126
www.VelocityAP.com
Tuning@VelocityAP.com
#26
The stock file in the XE is supposed to cut fuel at 6,800rpm(limiter is 6750rpm), his file is bumped 200rpm to 7,000rpm(limiter is 6950). The 200rpm bump won't do any further damage. Now if the driver was shifting at 7,000rpm every time, then yes we might have some concerns, but the concerns wouldn't be any different if the driver was shifting every time at 6,800rpm.
The rpm bump is beneficial to ppl that might weekend track the car, if you were on a circuit track and always ran out of rpm in say 3rd, a few feet before the area you would normal start braking into a particular corner. This 200rpm bump would allow you to stay in that 3rd gear for a few seconds longer, and not require to upshift at the time your almost about to start braking for that particular corner.
I've yet to run an XE on the strip but it would be the same idea when approaching the end of the 1/4 mile. If you always had to shift a few feet from the end of the run. You could now keep the selected gear and use the 200rpm bump(providing the 200rpm bump helps and that your still not bouncing off of it, otherwise it wouldn't be helpful)
The rpm bump is beneficial to ppl that might weekend track the car, if you were on a circuit track and always ran out of rpm in say 3rd, a few feet before the area you would normal start braking into a particular corner. This 200rpm bump would allow you to stay in that 3rd gear for a few seconds longer, and not require to upshift at the time your almost about to start braking for that particular corner.
I've yet to run an XE on the strip but it would be the same idea when approaching the end of the 1/4 mile. If you always had to shift a few feet from the end of the run. You could now keep the selected gear and use the 200rpm bump(providing the 200rpm bump helps and that your still not bouncing off of it, otherwise it wouldn't be helpful)
#27
Looks like they used different roller-to-tach conversion number between the two runs. The conversion is needed to calculate torque if tach(rpm) pickup was not used during the runs. Since both Tq and HP scales are the same, where the HP/TQ curves cross would correspond to 5250rpm.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...mance-data.pdf
According to Car and Driver, 4th gear ratio is 14.1mph/1000RPM and tops out around 96mph, so at 5250rpm, the speed should be 14.1*5.25=74mph. This is pretty close to the post-tune dyno run, but very far off from the stock baseline.
The peak power output is not affected by the tach conversion ratio but the torque output is, which would explain why the baseline Tq numbers seem lower than expected.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...mance-data.pdf
According to Car and Driver, 4th gear ratio is 14.1mph/1000RPM and tops out around 96mph, so at 5250rpm, the speed should be 14.1*5.25=74mph. This is pretty close to the post-tune dyno run, but very far off from the stock baseline.
The peak power output is not affected by the tach conversion ratio but the torque output is, which would explain why the baseline Tq numbers seem lower than expected.
#29
#30
Thanks Airboy. Something seemed off the me as the tq/hp intersection should have been at the same wheel speed (the speed corresponding to 5250 rpm in 4th gear) for both stock and tuned runs.
Your data makes more sense, and it still looks like a pretty serious gain. The AUC gained for torque is especially impressive.
Your data makes more sense, and it still looks like a pretty serious gain. The AUC gained for torque is especially impressive.
#31
There seems to be a drop in power after 6000 rpm in the tuned run while the stock tune remains flat (albeit at a lower overall hp).
Is this unavoidable or could perhaps be fixed with improved cam phasing/ignition timing?
I'm sure the VAP team noticed this when designing the tune but I'm interested in their answer nonetheless.
In either case it suggests shifting before the new 7k rpm redline is a good idea if you're going for 1/4 mile times etc.
Is this unavoidable or could perhaps be fixed with improved cam phasing/ignition timing?
I'm sure the VAP team noticed this when designing the tune but I'm interested in their answer nonetheless.
In either case it suggests shifting before the new 7k rpm redline is a good idea if you're going for 1/4 mile times etc.
#32
I would like to note that it is possible for this run that the XE was in NORMAL mode as Dynamic timed out and the car upshifts on its own near redline unlike holding the gear like Dynamic does. I don't think peak power is affected though in either Dynamic or Normal mode at full WOT near redline with the exception of the upshift?
#34
Did you get coded out during Dyno?
Hey BigCat, did your AWD XE code out while on the Dyno? (prolly not... i'm guessing.) My RWD will flash check engine light, and when downloaded the ECU codes are 31 and 34 (speed sensors). We speculate that while I am accelerating on the dyno....the car thinks there is something wrong and goes into limp mode before i can hit peak RPM, because it senses no speed on the fronts and thinks there is a ABS failure.
Do you know of a "Dyno Mode" setting for the ECU? I know Merc and others have made this an accessible option on their cars.
(I also have a call into Jaguar Service Dept in Austin, I will post the reply here.)
Do you know of a "Dyno Mode" setting for the ECU? I know Merc and others have made this an accessible option on their cars.
(I also have a call into Jaguar Service Dept in Austin, I will post the reply here.)
#35
Even if your car is RWD you still need to use a AWD linked dyno or the car will freak out. I had those same issues with my XFR.
I still had some minor issues with the AWD dyno on my XE but I just shut the car off and lock the doors for 5 min and then tried again. That reset it for me.
I only knew of Dyno Mode for my AMG cars, can't find anything for the Jags just yet.
I still had some minor issues with the AWD dyno on my XE but I just shut the car off and lock the doors for 5 min and then tried again. That reset it for me.
I only knew of Dyno Mode for my AMG cars, can't find anything for the Jags just yet.
Last edited by BigCat09; 03-27-2017 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Typos
#37
Yes, turn the car off, and let it sit 5 min between runs...that works.
Here is the pull data we got yesterday from my RWD 35T with the 419HP velocityap.com. We also had problems with the car down-shifitng too early in 4th to get higher readings.
My RWD car required an AWD linked Dyno, RWD dynos will not read this car. It was a Mustang Dyno, model 500. They are know for accurate, real world readings.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jaguarforums.com-vbulletin/2000x1235/jaguar_xe_with_velocityap_419hp_tune_7ec5db645d0ef 5a249d37cad1805c638a1f0401a.png
326RWHP, 341 WTQE was the best run we could manage before downshift. This was with a heat soaked engine in 88 degree weather.
Compared to the stock, 340HP run above, which was 290.4/259, the tune gave an additional 36HP and a large torque gain of 82 Ftlbs.
Again, the engine downshifts before higher HP could be read. But this also meant the hp is "limited" in everyday driving too...
I will also get some runs after the pulley install for comparison and post them. We may still be limited by the early downshift.
The dotted lines are the readings adjusted for heat and altitude. The graph cuts off at 83Mph. According to above post from Airboy, Car and Driver states 4th gear tops out at 96Mph, so there are more HP to get if we could get the gear to hold longer.
Here is the pull data we got yesterday from my RWD 35T with the 419HP velocityap.com. We also had problems with the car down-shifitng too early in 4th to get higher readings.
My RWD car required an AWD linked Dyno, RWD dynos will not read this car. It was a Mustang Dyno, model 500. They are know for accurate, real world readings.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jaguarforums.com-vbulletin/2000x1235/jaguar_xe_with_velocityap_419hp_tune_7ec5db645d0ef 5a249d37cad1805c638a1f0401a.png
326RWHP, 341 WTQE was the best run we could manage before downshift. This was with a heat soaked engine in 88 degree weather.
Compared to the stock, 340HP run above, which was 290.4/259, the tune gave an additional 36HP and a large torque gain of 82 Ftlbs.
Again, the engine downshifts before higher HP could be read. But this also meant the hp is "limited" in everyday driving too...
I will also get some runs after the pulley install for comparison and post them. We may still be limited by the early downshift.
The dotted lines are the readings adjusted for heat and altitude. The graph cuts off at 83Mph. According to above post from Airboy, Car and Driver states 4th gear tops out at 96Mph, so there are more HP to get if we could get the gear to hold longer.
#38
I discovered the pulls I published were done incorrectly, my fault. Please disregard my dyno chart quoted above by Fraser Mitchell, its not accurate at all. Turns out there is a learning curve involved when doing a dyno on a jaguar XE. These were conducted in the wrong gear, by 2. Although bigcat ran his pulls in fourth gear, next time I'm going to do mine in 6th, which has a 1:1 ratio according to this:
https://www.caranddriver.com/jaguar/...xe_2017/381507
Thanks for the compliment Fraser Mirtchell! Yes, I thought the dyno chart subject should be continued on bigcats original post, as that is the polite thing to do on a forum, even if he sold his Jag. I'm betting the forum monitors prefer this method, rather than having more/multiple threads in the XE forum on dyno results.
I'll also mention these fourms have been a great resource for me, I learn things daily.
For example, velocityap contacted me same morning after reading this post, and based on what they told me, I now believe the dyno pulls above were in the wrong gear (I think were in 4th gear, verifying) , Stuart mentioned they should have been pulled in 6th where there is a 1:1 . ( I think my dyno guy based the pull on ZF8 info for the wrong tranny system, and I think I confirmed wrong info.) So I am pulling the chart I posted as it is not relevant to anything. I will get it done again properly and post again here, for those who ARE interested.
BTW: That's great post sales support from those velocityap guys!
https://www.caranddriver.com/jaguar/...xe_2017/381507
Thanks for the compliment Fraser Mirtchell! Yes, I thought the dyno chart subject should be continued on bigcats original post, as that is the polite thing to do on a forum, even if he sold his Jag. I'm betting the forum monitors prefer this method, rather than having more/multiple threads in the XE forum on dyno results.
I'll also mention these fourms have been a great resource for me, I learn things daily.
For example, velocityap contacted me same morning after reading this post, and based on what they told me, I now believe the dyno pulls above were in the wrong gear (I think were in 4th gear, verifying) , Stuart mentioned they should have been pulled in 6th where there is a 1:1 . ( I think my dyno guy based the pull on ZF8 info for the wrong tranny system, and I think I confirmed wrong info.) So I am pulling the chart I posted as it is not relevant to anything. I will get it done again properly and post again here, for those who ARE interested.
BTW: That's great post sales support from those velocityap guys!
Last edited by Austin7; 10-03-2020 at 07:39 AM.
#40
__________________
Stuart Dickinson
Managing Director
VelocityAP Industries Ltd.
O: (1)250-485-5126
E: Stuart@VelocityAP.com
www.velocityap.com
Stuart Dickinson
Managing Director
VelocityAP Industries Ltd.
O: (1)250-485-5126
E: Stuart@VelocityAP.com
www.velocityap.com